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Okay so I can't find anything that answers this question specifically. My group is going against the BBEG and the cleric has Spell Specialization (quicken Dispel Magic) to drop a 7th level or lower spell slot to cast the spell with the BBEG casting at CL 20 Wizard. Opening Move is Wail of the Banshee and Quicken Time Stop using Greater Rod of Metamagic (quicken). My Question is this if the cleric uses their readied action to wait and dispel the time stop then do they cancel each other out since she is using it as a counterspell. Or for timing reasons would they have to blow it on the Wail of the Banshee or hold it for the d4 rounds of Time Stop without being able to use it?
What's the sequence?
The BBEG is going to cast a spell and then another spell, but they're not simultaneous. Tell the cleric that he's casting the first spell and allow a decision about whether or not to counter it, then tell the cleric that he's casting the second spell and allow a similar decision.
RAW, an ordinary dispel magic will counterspell anything, quickened or not. Also RAW, a readied action interrupts the action that triggers it (and hence goes first) and so the Time Stop would not get a chance to go off before being counterspelled, just as a readied action could kill a sniper before he had a chance to fire his crossbow.
(Having said that, Quickened Time Stop takes a 13th level slot to cast; even Spell Perfection will not allow this particular combination. I suppose the BBEG could be using a Greater Metamagic Rod of Quicken, but he'd have to have that in hand and it could be disarmed, sundered, and so forth to prevent him from trying this.)
the cleric has Spell Specialization (quicken Dispel Magic) to drop a 7th level or lower spell slot to cast the spell with the BBEG casting at CL 20 Wizard.
Spell Specialization increases your caster level, so I don't see how that's relevant.
Dispel Magic is a 3rd-level Cleric spell.
Quicken Spell (Metamagic) uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell's actual level.
So a quickened dispel magic uses a 7th-level cleric spell slot.
Opening Move is Wail of the Banshee and Quicken Time Stop using Greater Rod of Metamagic (quicken). My Question is this if the cleric uses their readied action to wait and dispel the time stop then do they cancel each other out since she is using it as a counterspell.
How Counterspells Work: "To use a counterspell, you must select an opponent as the target of the counterspell. You do this by choosing to ready an action. In doing so, you elect to wait to complete your action until your opponent tries to cast a spell. You may still move at your normal speed, since ready is a standard action.
If the target of your counterspell tries to cast a spell, make a Spellcraft check (DC 15 + the spell's level). This check is a free action. If the check succeeds, you correctly identify the opponent's spell and can attempt to counter it. If the check fails, you can't do either of these things.
To complete the action, you must then cast an appropriate spell. As a general rule, a spell can only counter itself. If you are able to cast the same spell and you have it prepared (or have a slot of the appropriate level available), you cast it, creating a counterspell effect. If the target is within range, both spells automatically negate each other with no other results."
Dispel Magic as a Counterspell: "You can usually use dispel magic to counterspell another spell being cast without needing to identify the spell being cast. Dispel magic doesn't always work as a counterspell (see the spell description)."
So it would go like this:
Cleric's turn:
Ready action to counterspell BBEG.
BBEG's turn:
BBEG attempts to cast a spell....
1) Cleric makes Spellcraft check to identify the spell.
1a) If successful, cleric has option to counter the spell by casting that exact same spell, or by casting dispel magic
1b) If not successful, cleric only has the option to counter the spell by casting detect magic
If the cleric chooses, for whatever reason, not to trigger his readied action, then the turn continues.
Lets say the cleric chooses not to trigger. BBEG finishes casting wail of the banshee. Bad stuff happens.
BBEG attempts to cast a spell...
1) Cleric makes Spellcraft check to identify the spell.
1a) If successful, cleric has option to counter the spell by casting that exact same spell, or by casting dispel magic
1b) If not successful, cleric only has the option to counter the spell by casting detect magic
If the cleric chooses, for whatever reason, not to trigger his readied action, then the turn continues.
Lets say the cleric either identifies the spell as Time Stop, or just realizes that it's fairly unlikely that he can cast another spell this turn and wants to use up his action. Since the cleric hasn't prepared Time Stop (or another spell that specifically counters is) he instead casts Dispel Magic, makes a dispel check against the appropriate DC, and either counters it or wastes his spell and action.
The fact that the BBEG's time stop is quickened, either via rod or feat, is irrelevant to being able to counter it. The cleric does not need to cast a quickened dispel magic, he could cast a regular dispel magic if he wants (and has it prepared, etc.) because his readied action interrupts the turn.
This is one of those places where I disagree with RaW vs RaI - I would think you couldn't counterspell a quickened spell since by the time you've finished your casting actions it's already gone off.
The point is that readied actions happen before the actions they interrupt.
If you think you shouldn't be able to interrupt swift actions in general, that's a bigger question as it covers a lot more stuff than just quickened spells.
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The point is that readied actions happen before the actions they interrupt.
If you think you shouldn't be able to interrupt swift actions in general, that's a bigger question as it covers a lot more stuff than just quickened spells.
A bit of a tangent - does the DC to identify a quickened spell using spellcraft go up because it's quickened?
A bit of a tangent - does the DC to identify a quickened spell using spellcraft go up because it's quickened?The point is that readied actions happen before the actions they interrupt.
If you think you shouldn't be able to interrupt swift actions in general, that's a bigger question as it covers a lot more stuff than just quickened spells.
Rules as written, I would say no. The DC to identify a spell is based on its level, and a metamagicked third level spell remains a third level spell. (Heighten may be an edge case.)
A bit of a tangent - does the DC to identify a quickened spell using spellcraft go up because it's quickened?
About as much as with most other metamagicked spells, which is to say, by zero.
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Rules as written, I would say no. The DC to identify a spell is based on its level, and a metamagicked third level spell remains a third level spell. (Heighten may be an edge case.)A bit of a tangent - does the DC to identify a quickened spell using spellcraft go up because it's quickened?The point is that readied actions happen before the actions they interrupt.
If you think you shouldn't be able to interrupt swift actions in general, that's a bigger question as it covers a lot more stuff than just quickened spells.
I guess I'm thinking 3.5 where there were specifically +5/+10 to DCs for if you could only hear a spell or only see a spell being cast.