A few questions on Snapdragon Fireworks plus Dazing Spell plus Heighten Spell

[Rerednaw]

Okay I came across several threads that hinted this was an effective combo. I want to make sure I have the numbers and effects correct.

1) Snapdragon Fireworks is not an area spell. No bonus against swarms.

2) The spell saving throw DC is for a level 1 spell.

3) Heighten spell changes the saving throw DC after Dazing or other metamagics are applied and does not include the effect of other metamagics. That is:

Base spell DC = 10+lvl(1)
+ Dazing Spell (+3 levels, no effect on DC)

Final save: 10+1 = 11+caster primary stat+focus/etc. for a 4th level spell. Duration of daze if save failed: 1 round.
If save made: no daze, no damage.

Add Heighten spell (5th level spell slot)
+1 to save DC ->Final save: 10+1+1 = 11+caster primary stat+focus/etc. for a 5th level spell. Duration of daze if save failed: 2 rounds.
If save made: no daze, no damage.

Correct?

4) Does taking the +3 save penalty and having a 1 round daze make this that effective? Would you not be better off using this with say other spells that are area or multi-target? Or bypass spell resistance?

Just curious.

[ashern]

The reason people like it so much is that it gives you an extra option and the spell lasts rounds/level. You can fire off the extra shot each round as a move action, so you can still cast another spell while it is going, and it basically gives you an at will daze chance for the duration of the combat you cast it in. All for the price of a single spell slot.

And yes, it looks like your spell DCs are correct, and number of rounds is correct. If you are playing in a higher level game this is a delightful thing to pull with a rod of dazing, because that way you can jack up the DC and the # of rounds they will be stunned. And really, dazing an enemy for multiple rounds for a move action is awesome.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Yeah, Heighten is basically required so that the duration is decent. You also might want the meta feat/rod that changes energy type, lots of things have at least a little fire resistance. The Havoc of the Society sorceror trait also works for the purposes of getting through energy resists/immunity.

[Oterisk]

1. Snapdragon Fireworks affects a 5' square. As it doesn't target a specific creature, it affects the whole square, so it can be used and effective against swarms.

2. Unless you provide Heighten, or have Feats that boost it such as Spell Focus it remains at a low DC. Some Bloodlines have a boost to DC's and damage such as he Arcane is a nice one for a bonus +1 to DC if you don't even use Heighten.

3. Already been answered satisfactorily.

The best part of this strategy is that the dazing spell can give you a daze effect based on reflex saves instead of will saves. With other spells, you can switch it to fort saves too. Targeting the weak save of a monster will help in your application of the save or suck, and since you send it off as a move action, you can make them save every round. The major problem with this will be SR, which can also be overcome with some penetration feats and rods.

[Rerednaw]

Oterisk wrote:

1. Snapdragon Fireworks affects a 5' square. As it doesn't target a specific creature, it affects the whole square, so it can be used and effective against swarms.

2. Unless you provide Heighten, or have Feats that boost it such as Spell Focus it remains at a low DC. Some Bloodlines have a boost to DC's and damage such as he Arcane is a nice one for a bonus +1 to DC if you don't even use Heighten.

3. Already been answered satisfactorily.

The best part of this strategy is that the dazing spell can give you a daze effect based on reflex saves instead of will saves. With other spells, you can switch it to fort saves too. Targeting the weak save of a monster will help in your application of the save or suck, and since you send it off as a move action, you can make them save every round. The major problem with this will be SR, which can also be overcome with some penetration feats and rods.

Thanks for the responses so far folks! :D

Has #1) been specifically stated as a ruling? The actual spell "Effect: dragon-shaped fireworks". Nothing like the usual area spells like Fireball "Area: 20-ft radius spread" or lightning bolt "Area: 120-ft line." So some spells are Area spells even when the "Area" descriptor is not part of the spell description? I play with rules-lawyers and a specific "yes-no" from the powers of P would be helpful :)

[Devilkiller]

Based on the spell description I believe that creatures in the target square take half damage even if they make the save. It says:
" Creatures in the target square take 1d4 points of fire damage and are dazzled for 1 round (Reflex half, a successful save negates the dazzled condition)."

Snapdragon Fireworks is cool since you get multiple attempts with the same spell, but honestly most combats are over in a few rounds, so I'd rather roll out a larger area effect or something with multiple targets and force multiple saves all at once. Dazing Fireball or Lightning Bolt can be very effective. Even Dazing Scorching Ray has a chance to stop up to 3 enemies for 2 rounds for the same spell slot cost as Heightened Dazing Snapdragon Fireworks. Scorching Ray would also benefit more from the trait to lower metamagic cost by 1 since there are other metamagics you might want to put on it such as Empower Spell. Scorching Ray or Intensified Shocking Grasp are also more likely to overcome elemental resistances.

A Lesser Metamagic Rod of Dazing Spell is well worth the price. If your campaign has downtime I think it is even worth taking Craft Rod so you can afford twice as many.

[soupturtle]

I'd say dazing snapdragon fireworks are only worth it if you have heighten, as dazing for one round just isn't that good. But if you specialize in it, taking one of the traits that reduces metamagic cost, it becomes pretty strong. It's probably also one of the best ways (after dazing ball lightning) to abuse the reveal weakness power of the void elemental school.