Positive energy used to heal OR harm?


Rules Questions


An old thread had me curious on this point, when a cleric channels positive energy, does he:

a) Heal the living within 30ft AND harm undead within that area

or

b) CHOOSE to either heal the living and ignore the undead within 30ft or harm the undead and ignore the living? As in only one of two effects occur?


The second one. I don't know why they decided on this, turn undead is not that strong in this game anyway.


Channel Energy (Su) wrote:

Regardless of alignment, any cleric can release a wave of energy by channeling the power of her faith through her holy (or unholy) symbol. This energy can be used to cause or heal damage, depending on the type of energy channeled and the creatures targeted.

A good cleric (or one who worships a good deity) channels positive energy and can choose to deal damage to undead creatures or to heal living creatures. An evil cleric (or one who worships an evil deity) channels negative energy and can choose to deal damage to living creatures or to heal undead creatures. A neutral cleric who worships a neutral deity (or one who is not devoted to a particular deity) must choose whether she channels positive or negative energy. Once this choice is made, it cannot be reversed. This decision also determines whether the cleric casts spontaneous cure or inflict spells (see spontaneous casting).

Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric. The amount of damage dealt or healed is equal to 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points of damage for every two cleric levels beyond 1st (2d6 at 3rd, 3d6 at 5th, and so on). Creatures that take damage from channeled energy receive a Will save to halve the damage. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the cleric's level + the cleric's Charisma modifier. Creatures healed by channeled energy cannot exceed their maximum hit point total—all excess healing is lost. A cleric may channel energy a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. This is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. A cleric can choose whether or not to include herself in this effect. A cleric must be able to present her holy symbol to use this ability.


Ah, thanks, I assumed it was like in some video games.


Yeah, always thought that was kinda not so great with Dhampir. So, you channel to harm undead... they are not affected because you are targeting undead to harm they are living... If you channel to heal the living, by the rules (and I've had this clarified by developers) the Dhampir will be unaffected by the channeling, he will not be accidentally harmed. The only way to harm a dhampir with positive energy channeling is therefore to specifically want to harm a dhampir by using positive energy to harm them specifically... or something... it's all very confusing sometimes... Either way, in my experience, all it does is make it so the dhampir counts as neither... there's no real DRAWBACK to it.

This is why in my games I give no mercy to dhampir (or Black-Blooded Oracles either)! If the cleric is channeling to heal the party without selective channeling to excluse the dhampir, the channeling BACKFIRES on the dhampir and harms him instead, just as if the cleric was an idiot and cast cure XX wounds on the dhammpir. Same with the channeling to harm.


On the other hand, an enemy force made up of equal parts Dhampir, cultists and undead can probably annoy a cleric to no end :P


It has always been my understanding that Negative Energy Affinity (a trait shared by dhampirs, umbral dragons, and a few others) causes the creature to be treated as undead for the purposes of the effect. Therefore channeling positive energy to harm the undead would harm the dhampir or other creature with negative energy affinity. Channeling positive energy to heal the living would have no effect since the dhampir is not healed by positive energy.

In other words, treat the dhampir as undead for resolving the channel effect.

PRD wrote:
Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) The creature is alive but is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy, as if it were an undead creature. Format negative energy affinity; Location Defensive Abilities


That is my understanding as well.
Well a lot of Positive Energy clerics have Selective Channel anyway, so shouldn't be much of a problem to exclude your Dhampir groupmate from it.

If not he either has to get out of the way, deal with the damage or you can't channel positive to harm.


Wolf Munroe wrote:

It has always been my understanding that Negative Energy Affinity (a trait shared by dhampirs, umbral dragons, and a few others) causes the creature to be treated as undead for the purposes of the effect. Therefore channeling positive energy to harm the undead would harm the dhampir or other creature with negative energy affinity. Channeling positive energy to heal the living would have no effect since the dhampir is not healed by positive energy.

In other words, treat the dhampir as undead for resolving the channel effect.

PRD wrote:
Negative Energy Affinity (Ex) The creature is alive but is healed by negative energy and harmed by positive energy, as if it were an undead creature. Format negative energy affinity; Location Defensive Abilities

Right, which means that while the cleric can hurt his friend by channeling to harm, he can't make a mistake and heal his other friends then realize OH CRAP i just hurt the dhampir! I guess I'm just mean to dhampir, since I think they should get hosed if their cleric friend forgets to be careful with his positive energy and tries to heal the dhampir with it.


Friend of the Dork wrote:
The second one. I don't know why they decided on this, turn undead is not that strong in this game anyway.

Turn undead is not powerful. And you required a feat to get that anyway. However channeling to harm undead is powerful. Channeling to heal people is powerful. Having it do both in a single channel is insanely strong. Which is why it was split.

One of the most powerful classes in 3.5 is the cleric for this very reason. Imagine a negative energy channeling cleric, healing up his undead army while, at the same time, hurting the party. Insane I tell you! Insane!


Channeling to harm undead is a joke beyond, like, 3rd level.


My players have two clerics and no full BAB classes, so I houseruled that it still does both. Haven't run into a problem yet.


Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Channeling to harm undead is a joke beyond, like, 3rd level.

Is it really? That's something I've been a little concerned about. I want to throw groups of skeletons/zombies at the party, but when the cleric hits third level, he'll be able to wipe groups of them off the map at a time (and he gets several casts of the stuff).

Silver Crusade

Friend of the Dork wrote:
The second one. I don't know why they decided on this, turn undead is not that strong in this game anyway.

During playtests of the system it was decided that it was seriously powerful to have it effect both.

Sczarni

Ninja in the Rye wrote:
Channeling to harm undead is a joke beyond, like, 3rd level.

Compared to what? Cleric's don't have a whole lot of offensive power to choose from.

I had a 6-7th level party encounter a ghost in a 5-ft hallway. The cleric standing in the back channeling every turn did like half the damage.


Channeling is pretty decent against incorporeal Undead what with everyone else doing half damage if they're swinging a non-ghost touch magic weapon.

Each die is 3.5 damage and they get a save for half (and Will is usually the good save for undead in addition to many having channel resistance. It's just not doing enough damage to keep up with the rising enemy HP. You're usually better off using a spell to buff the party or casting a summon monster spell or the like. Now, if you have the Quick Channel feat it's a really nice use of a move action in a round where you're casting a spell or attacking with your standard action.

Shadow Lodge

I'm planning on making an aasimar cleric soon:

Aasimar favoured class - + 1/2 damage undead/evil outsiders with channel.
Glory domain: +2 DC to channel
Sun domain + cleric lvl on damage vs undead
Feats like alignment channel etc.
Phylactery of positive channel first chance I get!

Its going to be an undead rich campaign, so hopefully I'll be quite effective.

Silver Crusade

I have a Cleric that almost uses the same build (minus Glory) and my Channels are ok. Not game breaking by any means. Past about 4th level, (and Im usually the highest level character, so I play down) there is a dramatic shift in its usefulness. Now keep in mind Ive done evrything I can reasonably to max out hurting Undead and Evil Outisders, and will likely take a new trait from Champs of Good for a +1 to healing effects, too.

It was decided to break it up into the either/or because a Neg Channeler at 1st level that both healed undead allies and bombed the whole party could be an issue, but the truth is that its really only at level 1 and a smidge at 2. Past that its not really an issue and the Cleric could be doing other things like buffing. I think it would have been better to keep it as an ability that does both, but to mitigate it at the lower levels some other way, perhaps making theCleric need to pick a number of targets equal to their Cha + 1/2 - 1/4 level only, which would cut down on the number of individuals either healed or harmed, be more tactical and fun, and not step on the toes of the mass cure/inflict spell later.

Silver Crusade

Also keep in mind that the Phylactery of Channeling takes up the same slot as the Headband of Wis/Cha, meaning you cant have both (except at a rediculous cost thats not worth it) and you will get more out of a Headband of Wis and Cha.

Shadow Lodge

Thanks ignatious. Oh well back to the drawing board! I was looking at the channel force feats to have the fun aspect of multiple knockdowns!


cmastah wrote:

An old thread had me curious on this point, when a cleric channels positive energy, does he:

a) Heal the living within 30ft AND harm undead within that area

or

b) CHOOSE to either heal the living and ignore the undead within 30ft or harm the undead and ignore the living? As in only one of two effects occur?

i have this question once, but i understand this:

The channel energy is a powerful source of healling, indeed, also, a powerfull massive damage at multiple targets at low levels... so, if you put both at the same use... you´ll have a lot of multicleric in your campaigns.

In the first attemp to deal with this, i create a house rule which let the cleric split her channelled energy damage/heal (example: ChE 5d6, then split to heal 2d6 and 3d6 to the damage). if you see, is too overpower at all (eal and damage at the same time)

i made a feat: Dual Channeled Energy (metamagic)
Prerrequisites: Wis 13
Benefit: whenever you attemp to make a channel, you may decide spent another channelled energy to do boths of your effects.
Special: using this feat prevents the character to do anything else (move, cast, even the 5ft free step movement)

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Positive energy used to heal OR harm? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions