Hey,
So if you're fighting an enemy who happens to be on a flying mount, if you throw a grappling hook (with rope attached) up to them, with the intention of pulling them from their mount, how would it work?
Let's say the enemy is 30 feet up and your grappling hook only has 10ft range increments.
At level 3 a Fighter has 3 BAB, so let's say I'm a Fighter with ok Dex (+3), I'd have a +6 to throw a Grappling Hook, but due to the range increments, I'd lose 4 of that ATK Bonus due to going two increments over what I should be.
So, ranged touch attack of +2.
Would they automatically gain the grappled position if this hit, and if they try to move away, being grappled, would they not automatically fall from their mount?
I don't know how this would work, but I'm fairly confident you can do it.
Perhaps just treat it mexhaniclaly as an improvised net.
The grappling hook is classified as a tool and not a weapon. The easiest thing to suggest here is that you take a net weapon and use it instead. It does what you want it to basically. At best, I wouldn't think a grappling hook wouldn't impose the grapple condition, but instead would all you to make a sort of range reposition attempt, but only towards you as the wielder. On a creature in the air, this could in theory be used to pull the rider from his mount.
Edit: Ninja'd.
I would also probably impose some greater penalty to attack since a rider on his flying mount could possibly be laying very close to his mount while moving, making it virtually impossible to target the rider instead of the mount. I think the best way to cover this is actually the -4 to attack rolls from soft cover, people always forget that rule exists. You're trying to hit rider, but the mount is always going to be between you and the rider.
Also, as far as this goes, a net requires a feat to use properly to do this sort of thing, so a -4 nonproficiency is appropriate in my opinion as well because using a grappling hook in this way isn't how it was intended.
Grappling Hook: Throwing a grappling hook requires a ranged attack roll, treating the hook as a thrown weapon with a range increment of 10 feet. Objects with ample places to catch the hook are AC 5.
This is the ruling and I realise it's just a Ranged Attack, not Ranged Touch, but I don't know if it would classify as an improvised weapon. If it does, the penalty would be a further -4 I think, meaning from a +6, I'd have a -2 to hit, so I'm trying to find out what the official ruling is on this.
Edit: Yea, I just need to know what your official attack penalties would be for doing this etc, because you're still using it for its purpose, grappling onto something, so it makes sense to be able to pull the enemy towards you in the following round, off its mount.
I'm just unsure how it would work because if it grapples you should maintain the grapple and the enemy should have a strength/escape artist check to get out of it, but if it's just a reposition, I don't know how it would work.
Hmm, I'm unsure on that because you still have the -4 from 2 extra range increments, and so as it doesn't require you to be proficient with it, surely you'd just take a -4 penalty on top of it for it being either an improvised weapon (not so sure as you're using it for its purpose - grappling something as it technically allows you to grapple anything) or I guess soft cover, as you're aiming from below the beast it's on.
A -8 feels legit to me, but a -12 I don't know about, because you're still using a grappling hook to grapple onto something. So I think it's fair to say soft cover and range increments would be an issue there.
Sucks that I can't find any official ruling on it.
It would definitely count as an improvised weapon becasue grappling hook is not listed as a weapon. Using it in this weapon makes it a weapon, this is the same as using a net in combat. A net is not normally a weapon, but taking the feat Net Adept makes you good at using one as such. Also, don't take the grappling hooks part about building AC of 5 to mean anything about combat AC, I think you're looking at probably the enemies touch AC at best. Possibly full AC. What you have in mind is very powerfuly versus a mounted flying combatant so it should be easy to do, or else no one would be a mounted flyer.
Also even though it called a grappling hook, they way you're intending to use it is not at all its intended purpose. A grappling hooks purpose it to catch on the edge of a building allow you to climb up it. Not to hook an enemy and control them. You really have to catch the hook in their clothing or armor to do it, and I see that as being really difficult, definitely more so than a simple touch attack.
Also, a mounted flying combatant probably has a saddle that will give him bonuses to stay in his mount's saddle. I mean, if I was a mounted combatant I'm probably going to have a harness attached to me and the mount to make sure I don't accidentally fall off, or make it a lot harder to pulled off.
You take penalties from range increments, non-proficiency (or improvised weapon), and from soft cover. They are all different sources. I don't know where you think that taking range increment penalties lets you ignore non-proficiency. If you're not proficient with using a bow you will take both range and proficiency penalties.
If that's the case, you could get throw anything, then aim at the mount to ignore a -8 penalty and still have a +2 to hit (probably vs touch AC), so I guess that could work.
I'm just really skeptical because you'd be throwing it in the same way at a wall as you would a flying creature, so I wouldn't have thought you'd need the throw anything feat for something that was made to be thrown.
Edit: And yea, I'd have thought everyone would be proficient with a grappling hook, as it's a tool. :p
To be honest I'd probably give the rider soft cover from his mount too, if thrown from the ground, and the possibility to use ride modifier +10 instead of CMD if better.
If that's the case, you could get throw anything, then aim at the mount to ignore a -8 penalty and still have a +2 to hit (probably vs touch AC), so I guess that could work.
I'm just really skeptical because you'd be throwing it in the same way at a wall as you would a flying creature, so I wouldn't have thought you'd need the throw anything feat for something that was made to be thrown.
Edit: And yea, I'd have thought everyone would be proficient with a grappling hook, as it's a tool. :p
The problem is that it is a tool and not a weapon. Everyone is proficient with it as a tool, but not as a weapon. Lets say you smash a chair and pick up the chair leg. You can use the leg as an improvised light mace (thats actually in the rules somewhere), but you still take -4 for improvised weapon.
Mechanically I think the easiest thing to do is use a net and you'll basically get the effect you're looking for, and their are clearer rules for how that works than to ad-hoc in a grappling hook.
Hmm, it doesn't seem to make much difference either way, but the thing I like about the grappling hook is if I did manage to hook onto the mount instead of the rider, I could effectively climb up the rope to attack him/her on his/her mount.
I like the idea of the suggestion of being able to use a grappling hook to control a character, but there is currently no mechanical description of how it should work so its really hard to decide what is appropriate. I always lean to the side of making things difficult, especially since in this case unseating a rider of a flying mount could be instant death for them. Even if you don't outright kill them by causing them to fall they will be injured, prone, and very far out of their element. It pretty much guarentees their death and inability to fight back.
This is true, but at the same time if you're not an archer, your death is guaranteed as a melee based character because you cannot reach them to attack them, so at least with a grappling hook, you have a small chance to even the odds.
Considering the height penalties, I'd say that's a pretty fair way to do things. They can kill you and you can insta-kill them....but only if you're successful with a very lucky hit. Though -12 to hit seems a bit much. Touch AC I'd say should be the target though, as you're not trying to get through the armour. You're trying to latch on.
This is true, but at the same time if you're not an archer, your death is guaranteed as a melee based character because you cannot reach them to attack them, so at least with a grappling hook, you have a small chance to even the odds.
Considering the height penalties, I'd say that's a pretty fair way to do things. They can kill you and you can insta-kill them....but only if you're successful with a very lucky hit. Though -12 to hit seems a bit much. Touch AC I'd say should be the target though, as you're not trying to get through the armour. You're trying to latch on.
That's not really true at all though. If you're fighting a rider of a flying mount who is also using melee attacks (such as fly by attack) you can ready an action to attack when he comes into range, if you have a brace weapon you can even brace against the charge. If he's flying and ranged then he doesn't pose that much more of a problem then a regular ranged attacker. You should at least carry a backup ranged weapon (though many people don't). Also, depending on your level there is fly and many other spells that even the playing field and negate his flight advantage. Heck, if you cast hold monster on his flying mount both with tumble from the sky. You can also try and find cover to help you out. You should be able to hide decently from the enemy unless you're fighting in a completely blank word of endless plains or something like it.
A rider on a flying mount doesn't really pose any more of a threat than any character capable of flight. There are plenty of ways to handle them, and even though a melee character my be suboptimal switching to trying ranged attacks, or having to rely on the wizard to buff or even the playing field there are plenty of ways to handle this fight.
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False. There are rules for it.
A grappling hook is an eastern exotic ranged weapon. -4 penalty without the feat.
Grappling hook - Dmg: 1d4(sm)1d6(med) Crit: ×2 Range: 10 ft. Weight: 14 lbs. Type: P Special: grapple Source: Pirates of the Inner Sea
"Grapple: On a successful critical hit with a weapon of this type, you can grapple the target of the attack. The wielder can then attempt a combat maneuver check to grapple his opponent as a free action. This grapple attempt does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature you are attempting to grapple if that creature is not threatening you. While you grapple the target with a grappling weapon, you can only move or damage the creature on your turn. You are still considered grappled, though you do not have to be adjacent to the creature to continue the grapple. If you move far enough away to be out of the weapon’s reach, you end the grapple with that action."
Source: Ultimate Combat.
Well, there you go. It's an exotic ranged weapon.
I don't see it specified as "eastern", though.