11th Level Ranger Damage Looks Low


Advice


I just wrote up another 11th level character. I'm playing in a high level game today and this is my first session.

I wrote up an 11th level Ranger Skirmisher, two handed fighter, with a pole arm. I am locked into this decision now as the GM has purchased a miniature already.

Here is his frame:

STR 18
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 10
WIS 14
CHA 10

HP 92
AC

Base +11
Melee +15 / +10 / +5
Range +13 / +8 / +3

Fort +9
Ref +9
Will +5

Feats:
1 – Dodge
1 – Weapon Focus – Glaive
2 – Power Attack
3 – Combat Reflexes
5 – Mobility
6 – Great Cleave
7 – Combat Patrol
9 – Body Guard
10 – Dreadful Carnage
11 – In Harm’s Way

Skirmisher Tricks

Cat Fall 20’
Upending Strike
Vengeance Strike
Quick Climb

Right now, he looks like a bit of a wuss. I'm afraid he isn't going to hit enough and when he hits, he won't do enough damage. I understand he has advantages fighters don't, but I'm used to having weapon training, weapon spec, and so on and on.


Your items and favored enemy (and Instant Enemy) will go a long way towards making up the difference in expectations.

Also you've got Great Cleave (but haven't taken Cleave) and Dreadful Carnage (but haven't taken Furious Focus). I'd recommend dropping Great Cleave for Furious Focus.


Humphrey Boggard wrote:

Your items and favored enemy (and Instant Enemy) will go a long way towards making up the difference in expectations.

Also you've got Great Cleave (but haven't taken Cleave) and Dreadful Carnage (but haven't taken Furious Focus). I'd recommend dropping Great Cleave for Furious Focus.

Thanks. That makes sense.

The high level feats are ranger bonus feats for a two handed stylist.


What exactly is locked in?

What race are you?
Using point buy or rolling? If you have included like a +2 human bonus and the +2 from leveling up, looks like you have 15 point buy.

So I'm far from an expert here, but I can give some naive advice.

Why skirmisher? Spells are nice and probably better.

Furious focus might do you better than Great Cleave as your bonus feat.

Dodge only gives +1AC. You might be able to find something better.

Mobility doesn't seem too useful. You can probably just 5-foot step away from your target which won't provoke.

Combat patrol is a cool sounding trick, but I'm not really sure it is that good.

Body Guard and In Harm's Way don't seem that great. You might as well just use your AoO to attack, and giving up an attack at full BAB to instead move an attack to yourself seems limited. Especially when you will most likely be up the front in, you know, melee.

Vengeance strike has anti-synergy with reach weapons, as the enemy must be adjacent to you, but you are trying to avoid that. It seems unlikely an enemy will move adjacent to you, just to attack someone else. You also don't want to be adjacent to enemies.


Humphrey Boggard wrote:

Your items and favored enemy (and Instant Enemy) will go a long way towards making up the difference in expectations.

Also you've got Great Cleave (but haven't taken Cleave) and Dreadful Carnage (but haven't taken Furious Focus). I'd recommend dropping Great Cleave for Furious Focus.

Rangers ignore bonus pre-reqs on bonus feats, and Furious Focus is lame, so I think this character looks good.

Strength is kind of low, but that's probably because you didn't include any items.

With a +4 belt of strength, at least a +3 weapon or so, and Power attacking, your attacks will be:

+17/+12/+7 to hit, 1d10+21 damage

With your full favored enemy (or Instant Enemy), that's +23/+18/+13 to hit and 1d10+27 damage.

Er, crap, you're a skirmisher so no Instant Enemy. Yikes, ok, you're a little bit anemic, but not horribly so. I think you'll be ok, just slightly behind a Fighter or Paladin.


Combat style feats ignore prerequisites, so Great Cleave is good.

With a glaive, you could be at +22 against some enemies, +18 against others, and +16 against the rest. That's okay, particularly if you have some idea about what types of foes you'll be fighting some of the time. Also, with Power attack, your static damage bonus will be +19 against your most favoured enemy before weapon or ability score enhancements - assume another +4 at least to attack and damage for those.

I think it's worth not being a skirmisher just for lead blades, myself - but I think you're okay anyway. You'll be acting in a lot more surprise rounds than a fighter, able to create surprise rounds of your own by scouting, able to tell troll poo from owlbear poo, calming down angry squirrels...

You're not the biggest baddest without some buffing - but that's why you travel with arcane and divine spellcasters, right?

Edit: totally ninja'd. Although mpl, could you break down those bonuses for us? They seem a little odd... You haven't factored in + 12 for PA have you, because it's only -3 for +9 at BAB+11? Or maybe it's just 1.30am here and I can't do addition at this time of night...

Attack roll w/Glaive PA vs FE: +11 (BAB) +4 (Str) +1 (WF) +6 (FE) +2 (+4 belt) +3 (weapon) -3 (PA) = +24/+19/+14

Dmg = +4 (Str) +6 (FE) +2 (+4 belt) +3 (weapon) +9(PA)= 1d10+24

Sovereign Court

@mpli

Could you explain why Furious Focus is so bad?

Would it be better for a fighter who has lots of feats and can swap out bonus feats?

thanks,

Kodger


Kodger wrote:

@mpli

Could you explain why Furious Focus is so bad?

Would it be better for a fighter who has lots of feats and can swap out bonus feats?

thanks,

Kodger

at 11th lvl furious focus ignores the -3 to hit for power attacking on your first attack, personally I do not find that so bad, but many enemies that are not the BBEG or otherwise challenging will be hit on a 2 in many cases anyway with your first attack. For many encounters it will effectively not do anything or just give a +1 or +2 to hit once possibly.


littlehewy wrote:
Edit: totally ninja'd. Although mpl, could you break down those bonuses for us? They seem a little odd... You haven't factored in + 12 for PA have you, because it's only -3 for +9 at BAB+11? Or maybe it's just 1.30am here and I can't do addition at this time of night...

I missed the +1 to hit from Weapon Focus, but you're adding too much for Power Attack.

Power attack adds 3 from BAB 1-3, 6 from BAB 4-7, and 9 from BAB 8-11. You don't get +12 damage until 12th level.

Kodger wrote:

@mpli

Could you explain why Furious Focus is so bad?

Would it be better for a fighter who has lots of feats and can swap out bonus feats?

It only gives a bonus to hit with your first attack, and by level 11, you're basically always hitting with your first hit regardless. If your attack bonus is low enough such that your first swing is going to miss because of Power Attack, you're in pretty dire straits and might need to reconsider more than just a single feat.


mplindustries wrote:
Kodger wrote:

@mpli

Could you explain why Furious Focus is so bad?

Would it be better for a fighter who has lots of feats and can swap out bonus feats?

It only gives a bonus to hit with your first attack, and by level 11, you're basically always hitting with your first hit regardless. If your attack bonus is low enough such that your first swing is going to miss because of Power Attack, you're in pretty dire straits and might need to reconsider more than just a single feat.

Not sure where you're getting that. His attack bonus is +18 unless he's fighting a favored enemy so he hits an AC 20 on a roll of two or higher.


mplindustries wrote:
littlehewy wrote:
Edit: totally ninja'd. Although mpl, could you break down those bonuses for us? They seem a little odd... You haven't factored in + 12 for PA have you, because it's only -3 for +9 at BAB+11? Or maybe it's just 1.30am here and I can't do addition at this time of night...

I missed the +1 to hit from Weapon Focus, but you're adding too much for Power Attack.

Power attack adds 3 from BAB 1-3, 6 from BAB 4-7, and 9 from BAB 8-11. You don't get +12 damage until 12th level.

Yes, I know. So why was the attack bonus you gave 1 lower and the damage 3 higher?

Read my breakdown. I used -3/+9 for PA.

You appear to have used +12. I wasn't sure, which is why I asked for a breakdown of your +23/+18/+13 for 1d10+27, when by using the correct PA mods I got +24/+19/+14 for 1d10+24


Humphrey Boggard wrote:
mplindustries wrote:
Kodger wrote:

@mpli

Could you explain why Furious Focus is so bad?

Would it be better for a fighter who has lots of feats and can swap out bonus feats?

It only gives a bonus to hit with your first attack, and by level 11, you're basically always hitting with your first hit regardless. If your attack bonus is low enough such that your first swing is going to miss because of Power Attack, you're in pretty dire straits and might need to reconsider more than just a single feat.
Not sure where you're getting that. His attack bonus is +18 unless he's fighting a favored enemy so he hits an AC 20 on a roll of two or higher.

11th level ranger with strength 18 base and weapon focus comes down to +16, but likely has +4 strength item and a +2 weapon at least to take him to +20, +21 with haste, AC 23 on a 2+. A tough fight will take a swift action to get +6 to hit against a tough enemy, AC 29 on a 2+.

Not unlikely there will be more bonus' to hit from flanking, buffs or otherwise, but this is pretty much what you can expect at least.


mplindustries wrote:

Kodger wrote:

@mpli

Could you explain why Furious Focus is so bad?

Would it be better for a fighter who has lots of feats and can swap out bonus feats?

It only gives a bonus to hit with your first attack, and by level 11, you're basically always hitting with your first hit regardless. If your attack bonus is low enough such that your first swing is going to miss because of Power Attack, you're in pretty dire straits and might need to reconsider more than just a single feat.

Looking at the numbers, this ranger need and 8 to hit a CR 11 monster. That is hardly a sure hit.


littlehewy wrote:
You appear to have used +12. I wasn't sure, which is why I asked for a breakdown of your +23/+18/+13 for 1d10+27, when by using the correct PA mods I got +24/+19/+14 for 1d10+24

1d10 + 9 from Strength + 9 from power attack +3 from the +3 weapon I assumed he'd have

That's 21.


Duh 1.5 Str for two hands - this is why I wanted a breakdown... Too late for adding.


I'd either replace mobility with step up, or go the whole way and grab spring attack.

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