Greetings everyone! I thought I'd come to the forums and talk/ask with others who have or are currently playing the Wizard class in PFS.
I am playing a conjuration wizard who took the sub-school of teleportation. With that being said, I'm obviously trying to do crowd control (for the most part) while also being capable of providing damage.
What are tricks or tips you could provide to this halfling Wizard? The Flaxseed clan would be very thankful for any advice you could share.
It's also nice to see other players with Wizards. At my local gaming store, I am currently the only wizard (that I know of) who is in play. There are others who have a character that might have a level or two in Wizard for other reasons, but it almost feels like this class is... under-appreciated at times?
Keep in mind this character is level 8 so there will not be a lot I could change, or add. I tend to be a careful player, and that slowly became part of the character itself. Silh E. Flaxseed is a really nice guy (well, halfling) and can usually be found arguing with his scorpion familiar on how spells might be pronounced while also making silly hats (because being a Wizard automatically makes you a member of the fancy hats club).
I don't have much input. I usually ignore damage spells, though, unless I have nothing better to do. "Oh, it's under control, I guess I'll just magic missile or ear piercing scream now." When we're not doing so well, "Oh man, this is a rough battle...time for slow/black tentacles/wall of ice/blindness/some other thing that messes up the enemy!"
For feats, I usually take G. Spell Focus in the school first and then worry about spell penetration later. My 7 wizard (transmuter, slow specialized) JUST got spell penetration, and I'm considering level 11 being G. spell penetration (level 9 is reserved for improved familiar). The reasoning for this is everything can make a save, but not everything has spell resistance.
In your case, since you probably cast lots of conjuration spells, SR is even less of a problem for you because so many conjuration spells don't allow SR.
Silh E. Flaxseed wrote:
o nice to see other players with Wizards. At my local gaming store, I am currently the only wizard (that I know of) who is in play. There are others who have a character that might have a level or two in Wizard for other reasons, but it almost feels like this class is... under-appreciated at times?
I have pretty much started making just casters for PFS, because I usually end up playing with a ton of martial characters. I like it though...casters are my favorite (especially oracles, as anyone who knows me will tell you).
I have a conjuration(teleportation) wizard myself. Looks like you are more focused on control spells like create pit than on summoning. If I am incorrect, then I would recommend you pick up Augment Summoning ASAP (level 9).
I would have definitely not picked Dodge for a Wizard (too late now, I guess) as over time, Wizards cannot win the arms race of AC versus BAB on bad guys. My main mode of defense is mirror image and invisibility as well as flying and staying out of trouble.
As Yiroep mentioned I am also a fan of G Spell Focus over Spell Pen, but Spell pen is always nice to have regardless. There are RANDOM conjuration spells that allow for SR such as Acidic Spray that spell pen is still nice for. Not a lot, but they are there..
10th level, I would look into Arcane Discoveries (From UM? I think?) instead of a bonus feat. I have been able to get some GREAT mileage out of the Fast Study discovery in PFS. I leave most of my metamagic to rods instead of the feats.
After Augment Summoning, you can also snag Superior Summoning or Dimensional Agility. DA is pretty nice if you use your Shift power pretty often, as you cannot take any other actions after without it (as per dimension door). I have gotten some good mileage out of it.
I do tend to cast a lot of conjuration spells, and I love how SR is less of an issue with that school of magic. I might make more casters just because of the sheer lack I see. A trend with others at my local gaming store is the constant making of new characters. So there might be other casting classes at much lower levels that I'm not aware of.
I used to play a wizard(and only played casters) at the same store actually. Transmutation and Conjuration are never bad options. Just remember to avoid using spells with multiple saves and don't forget to buff up before combat and make the most out of your actions and your usually good.
Wizard is not underappreciated. Its easily one of the most powerful classes. First level encounters are sometimes trivialized by color spray. Save or dies, or save or sucks, that can be used on entire crowds at a time while controlling the battle field and dealing damage. Removing foes from battle groups at a time or setting them up to die. Utility spells such as invisibility or fly can make life much easier, and are things other people just won't have immidiate access to without items.
Finlanderboy wrote:
is penetration that good with summoning? Most summons by pass SR I thought.
Conjuration is more than summoning beasties. I'm actually not a big fan of summoning but spells like create pit just bend reality over backwards for you and reshape the battlefield while removing monsters. Conjuration is usually SR no though.
Actually, I took illusion as one of my opposition schools. Silh doesn't like how it is commonly used by evil creatures and other enemies. Invisibility is a great spell, but thought I'd try to not rely on that ability. Well, not by preparing it anyways. I can still use a wand or scroll of it.
While battlefield control spells can be good, a poorly placed one REALLY will frustrate your primary damage dealers and unnecessarily extend combat time. Just keep this in mind.
Just remember to avoid using spells with multiple saves...
Erm...Aqueous orb is one of the best spells out there, even though it is multi-save. As well, shadow conjuration and shadow evocation are a lot of fun, even though they can sometimes be 2 saves or more. I always thought a shadow conjured aqueous orb would be funny.
Illusion is actually pretty sweet for wizards. Mirror Image and Blur are two of the more powerful spells for protecting yourself. AC only goes so far, but mirror image is always in your favor and it can stack with concealment if I remember right.
Yiroep wrote:
MrSin wrote:
Just remember to avoid using spells with multiple saves...
Erm...Aqueous orb is one of the best spells out there, even though it is multi-save. As well, shadow conjuration and shadow evocation are a lot of fun, even though they can sometimes be 2 saves or more. I always thought a shadow conjured aqueous orb would be funny.
More saves more chance to fail. Same as SR. Many creatures have a good reflex, and I wasn't naming a particular spell. Everytime I see aqueous orb I think of a giant katamari ball. Shadow conjuration/illusion are great for versatility.
@twells- I've had that issue come up a few times, and I sometimes forget. But I do appreciate the reminder, thanks!
@Yiroep- I agree 100%! Aqueous Orb has kinda turned into the characters signature spell and other players know what to expect when I play this character. Some people think I'm worried about it doing non-lethal damage, I'd more concerned with keeping a target stuck more than anything else.
Meh, my wizard has illusion as opposed, and the one time my wizard died it was my own fault...had nothing to do with defenses. You can be fine without illusion. If you really want it, you can use an Arcane Discovery to un-oppose it at level 10.
MrSin wrote:
More saves more chance to fail. Same as SR. Many creatures have a good reflex, and I wasn't naming a particular spell. Everytime I see aqueous orb I think of a giant katamari ball. Shadow conjuration/illusion are great for versatility
Didn't mean to knock ya, only that there are great multi-save spells out there. :p
a couple pointers on spells - from one old wizard player to another.
.
Emergency Force Sphere - from the Cheliax book. cast like feather fall - gives you a 10' wide bubble of force to prevent whatever is fixing to kill you (charging barbarian, or cave-in). You can then buff a round or two and Dim Door out.
Invisibility cast on a door. My wife does this when she wants to see what's in the room. the party now looks in, and the monsters think we've opened a door. Once the BBE charged us - "Boom!" into the closed door. "That's going to leave a mark" she said. We never got a chance to ask if she ment on the door or on the BBE. I've used invisibility (well, vanish actually) on the Tank when he's blocking for my Wiz. The monster trys to charge me (Squisy in the front rank!) - but he's in the way, then he gets a full round attack on his turn, and the first swing is from Invisibility.
Emergency Force Sphere - from the Cheliax book. cast like feather fall - gives you a 10' wide bubble of force to prevent whatever is fixing to kill you (charging barbarian, or cave-in). You can then buff a round or two and Dim Door out.
This spell is supa awesome. It's even better because you can dismiss it (which is a standard action to do).
a couple pointers on spells - from one old wizard player to another.
.
Emergency Force Sphere - from the Cheliax book. cast like feather fall - gives you a 10' wide bubble of force to prevent whatever is fixing to kill you (charging barbarian, or cave-in). You can then buff a round or two and Dim Door out.
Invisibility cast on a door. My wife does this when she wants to see what's in the room. the party now looks in, and the monsters think we've opened a door. Once the BBE charged us - "Boom!" into the closed door. "That's going to leave a mark" she said. We never got a chance to ask if she ment on the door or on the BBE. I've used invisibility (well, vanish actually) on the Tank when he's blocking for my Wiz. The monster trys to charge me (Squisy in the front rank!) - but he's in the way, then he gets a full round attack on his turn, and the first swing is from Invisibility.
I'll look into the Force Sphere, sounds really useful.
I forgot to mention a feat in an earlier post. I have improved initiative. So my character has a +14 on the init check before rolling. I usually take that time to use Stone Call immediately so at least for the first round, I or other players can't be charged. It gives us a little time to form a strategy.
And if anyone is curious how I have a 14 initiative, here is how I have it so high: Dex mod (+4) Reactionary trait (+2) Improved Initiative (+4) Green Sting Scorpion familiar (+4 initiative)
I have played a wizard for a long time now, and they are being underrated as a class, there are many options to making one according to the persons needs. I have found that when a wizard gets to higher tiers many creature encounters have SR creatures and usually to bypass it requires a high roll if not prepared for them. I built my wizard to handle SR creatures specifically and therefore give them a nasty surprise when they see my spells penetrate their SR almost like butter; this requires Spell Penetration then greater version of it and then choosing the Piercing meta-magic feat that will enable you to knock off quite a bit more before you roll and wash your magic off them like a tidal wave. For myself I found that having an elven universalist(meta-magic mastery) wizard helps me even furthur in that regard for a total of -11 to SR before you roll not counting your wizard level subtracting; I don't know about you but that seems like your spanking their SR for even being there. We all have our way of handling our wizards, but this one for me takes away quite a bit of their threat to wizards.
Quote:
Emergency Force Sphere - from the Cheliax book. cast like feather fall - gives you a 10' wide bubble of force to prevent whatever is fixing to kill you (charging barbarian, or cave-in). You can then buff a round or two and Dim Door out.
I highly recommend this spell as it has saved my arse many times.
Once again I want to thank everyone who has contributed. I've read some great stuff that I'd not think of myself. I might make another wizard at some point, there are a lot of options.
More than likely you already do something like this, but here's my advice on
sharing spellbooks:
It helps to have a list of the spells in your book that you can hand to another player. that way it doesn't cut into table time while he reviews your book to see what he can use/wants/doesn't have. And also stick on a big sticky note - that way, when he returns the spell list to you, he should have noted what he has that you don't - that you can add to your book. Get him to note his PFS character number too, that way you have a recored of who you got the spell from (I have just started doing this last part). So it goes something like this:
me to other player as we are sitting down at the table: "here's my spell book. Look thru and copy what you want. I'd like you to note what you have that I don't on this. Pass it back when your done."
Other player: "HA! like you're going to have something I don't... wait, you've got 5th level spells in your 1st level wiz/6th level rogues book??"
Me: "yeah, I adventure with a lot of wizards. This is my 'Wizard Bait'. Anyway, if you have anything I don't just note it ok?".
Me to the Judge: "If we have time & money before the adventure - we'll copy spells, if not, we'll do it at the end afterword. Is that ok? I'll copy anything he has that I don't."
I've had more than one player say "heck, even if we stop the game now, I've had a GREAT game! I'm a lot poorer - but LOTS of new spells!"
This way it only takes a couple minutes away from the RP of the table, reduces table crosstalk, does the needed bookwork, and (most important) doesn't cut into the DMs time/setup/etc.
It often results in a Wizard player who spends the first 10 minutes of the game with his nose in a spell book - giggling to himself. But I figure this is good role play. Every wizard is a little bit crazy..
OH! and I stick the sticky note on the chronicle when I store it in my PC folder - just incase....
Absolutely the most important thing for a player of a wizard?
KNOW YOUR SPELLS
There's a spell somewhere that does whatever you need to do. Knowing what it is and when to use it is the core of the wizard class. The numbers are basically irrelevant.
More than likely you already do something like this, but here's my advice on
** spoiler omitted **
Sadly there are not a lot of people playing classes that could even share spellbooks currently. But it's always fun when I can. I learned Disintegrate from a Wizard at a convention in Indy not too long ago... I was estatic! And cackling like a mad man for just a moment.
I have a conjuration(teleportation) wizard myself. Looks like you are more focused on control spells like create pit than on summoning. If I am incorrect, then I would recommend you pick up Augment Summoning ASAP (level 9).
I would have definitely not picked Dodge for a Wizard (too late now, I guess) as over time, Wizards cannot win the arms race of AC versus BAB on bad guys. My main mode of defense is mirror image and invisibility as well as flying and staying out of trouble.
As Yiroep mentioned I am also a fan of G Spell Focus over Spell Pen, but Spell pen is always nice to have regardless. There are RANDOM conjuration spells that allow for SR such as Acidic Spray that spell pen is still nice for. Not a lot, but they are there..
10th level, I would look into Arcane Discoveries (From UM? I think?) instead of a bonus feat. I have been able to get some GREAT mileage out of the Fast Study discovery in PFS. I leave most of my metamagic to rods instead of the feats.
After Augment Summoning, you can also snag Superior Summoning or Dimensional Agility. DA is pretty nice if you use your Shift power pretty often, as you cannot take any other actions after without it (as per dimension door). I have gotten some good mileage out of it.
I'm sorry I missed this post earlier. To be honest, I've not once used any of the Summon Monster spells in my entire PFS career. I took dodge because it sounded good, and I don't regret taking it but would probably reconsider in the event I make another Wizard. I'll look at the discoveries again, I have UM.
Wait, your okay with disentigrate but not illusion? Next thing you know your using ennervation.
I usually dump enchantment myself. Too many enemies outright immune to it, and it really changes between GMs. Some GMs play it out like mindcontrol and you can use it anytime you want. Others run a campaign with nothing but undead. Divination is easy to replace with scrolls I feel like. Necromancy many of my groups just don't want on the good guys team, even if its a powerful debuff. Evocation used to be the first thing you gave up, I'm still not big on it myself.
Wait, your okay with disentigrate but not illusion? Next thing you know your using ennervation.
I usually dump enchantment myself. Too many enemies outright immune to it, and it really changes between GMs. Some GMs play it out like mindcontrol and you can use it anytime you want. Others run a campaign with nothing but undead. Divination is easy to replace with scrolls I feel like. Necromancy many of my groups just don't want on the good guys team, even if its a powerful debuff. Evocation used to be the first thing you gave up, I'm still not big on it myself.
Yes, I am. I may not be able to use it, currently but if there comes a time when major damage needs to happen, it could be an option. That was also the first wizard I had met in society play, so why not learn from them? I'm guessing your brother tells you what happens for you to be so specific.
I do crowd control, and sometimes will debilitate enemies rather than harm them with spells such as Enervation and Ray of Enfeeblement. There have been no qualms about my character using necromancy spells like the one mentioned. But I could certainly see how some might have an issue with them.
Edit- Silh does not like illusion because it is deceptive. Other spells being mentioned (enervation & disintegrate for example)are not.
Wait, your okay with disentigrate but not illusion? Next thing you know your using ennervation.
I usually dump enchantment myself. Too many enemies outright immune to it, and it really changes between GMs. Some GMs play it out like mindcontrol and you can use it anytime you want. Others run a campaign with nothing but undead. Divination is easy to replace with scrolls I feel like. Necromancy many of my groups just don't want on the good guys team, even if its a powerful debuff. Evocation used to be the first thing you gave up, I'm still not big on it myself.
Schools given up tend to reflect the players play style. Each player is very different.
and I think the OP is talking about a PFS game, so he'll switch from judge to judge, and get some YMMV with differance with the enchantment schools spells... but not as much as in a home game.
Didn't mean to knock ya, only that there are great multi-save spells out there. :p
Not a bit of animosity felt.
I'll second that "yoink" ... played a LOT of wizards over the years, even used it on objects but it never occurred to me to use it on a door to see into the room. My first thought reading it was Wow! followed by must be a catch like weight limit ... but at 100lbs/level of caster it would have to be a pretty heavy door to not be legal target.
Silh, where are you at? maybe we can meet up at a CON and I can share my Rogues book with you... (I've got a LOT of spells - bought a Blessed Book early)
Wait, your okay with disentigrate but not illusion? Next thing you know your using ennervation.
I usually dump enchantment myself. Too many enemies outright immune to it, and it really changes between GMs. Some GMs play it out like mindcontrol and you can use it anytime you want. Others run a campaign with nothing but undead. Divination is easy to replace with scrolls I feel like. Necromancy many of my groups just don't want on the good guys team, even if its a powerful debuff. Evocation used to be the first thing you gave up, I'm still not big on it myself.
Schools given up tend to reflect the players play style. Each player is very different.
and I think the OP is talking about a PFS game, so he'll switch from judge to judge, and get some YMMV with differance with the enchantment schools spells... but not as much as in a home game.
This is a character only for PFS. I'm not sure I'd use this same idea in a home game. Also, I don't know what the abbreviation YMMV is?
Silh, where are you at? maybe we can meet up at a CON and I can share my Rogues book with you... (I've got a LOT of spells - bought a Blessed Book early)
I live in Indiana. I play in Bloomington near the IU campus, and I will be attending GenCon in Indianapolis this August. :)
Didn't mean to knock ya, only that there are great multi-save spells out there. :p
Not a bit of animosity felt.
I'll second that "yoink" ... played a LOT of wizards over the years, even used it on objects but it never occurred to me to use it on a door to see into the room. My first thought reading it was Wow! followed by must be a catch like weight limit ... but at 100lbs/level of caster it would have to be a pretty heavy door to not be legal target.
yeah, the first time she used it like that was in the middle of a game back in LG days. She was playing a Sorcerer and I had my Rogue listening at a door. I heard something, so she slid her figure up front and said to me, "Now remember to look surprised. I cast Invisibility on the door, so now our lights shine into the room - what do we see? Oh, and I look surprised to see it, do I need to roll a bluff check?"
I'm hoping one day she get's to do this and have the bad guy cast Fireball "out the door". That'll be a shock!
but at 100lbs/level of caster it would have to be a pretty heavy door to not be legal target.
All doors are made out of magical immovable adamantite that weights CL x 100 +1. Its the only way to keep people from stealing them or turning them invisible.
nosig wrote:
Schools given up tend to reflect the players play style. Each player is very different.
and I think the OP is talking about a PFS game, so he'll switch from judge to judge, and get some YMMV with differance with the enchantment schools spells... but not as much as in a home game.
I usually pick my opposition school based on the group I'm in. Best not to step on toes and to avoid potential issues. I remember a GM let me use Charm Hex in one of the very first games I played as a jedi mind trick. Super effective! Another GM of mine will always try to find a way to work the charm against you. It really varies from person to person. We have a thread on charm person already though.
I picked up a lesser persistent rod for 9K, for persisitent Slow or Glitterdust, and it has been a best buy.
Bears Endurance as a psuedo healing spell is very solid at higher caster level.
Also Eagles Splendor to help with faction missions.
Of course now spells can be bought fairly cheaply from 3rd party wizards spell book access, stock up.
Standard advice of Max Int headband (with interesting skills) and max spell focus feats.
I tend to have Bears Endurance prepared because I try to play with a friend who has a different character in the Flaxseed family. I guess I could prepare Eagles Splendor, but my character is an Eagle Knight and currently have a total of 10 before rolling a diplomacy check. I have a headband of vast intellect +2, and I will probably upgrade at some point.
Edit-- I might be more likely to buy scrolls of Eagles Splendor before preparing it for most scenarios that PFS has to offer. Still not sure how I managed to gain favor with 3 out of 5 or 6 people without that spell and only a 12 Charisma in The Blackros Matrimony (before getting the eagle knight title). It's still a good suggestion though, much appreciated!
I tend to take non-class skills like diplomacy and sense motive as headband skills.
Other suggestions:
- always leave an empty slot at each spell level
- Daylight has become a staple for anti-darkness, but it is also anti-stealth (you cannot use stealth in an area of bright light [p172] - it messes with bad guys with hide in plain sight for example)
I tend to take non-class skills like diplomacy and sense motive as headband skills.
Other suggestions:
- always leave an empty slot at each spell level
- Daylight has become a staple for anti-darkness, but it is also anti-stealth (you cannot use stealth in an area of bright light [p172] - it messes with bad guys with hide in plain sight for example)
I recently thought about that. Though I tend to devote a few slots to Dispel Magic and Aqueous Orb. Then picking something else that might be useful based on what a PFS scenario might hint at. Daylight would be a good idea.
Best to select a variety of things. Hit the foes weaksave if you can and avoid using spells on things that have a strong save against it (example: Ranger has a weak will save, but a strong dex and reflex. Aqueous orb won't hit him well. Or enervation or scorching ray on a monk.)
