| Sanjiv |
My GM seems to think that I can do everything except speak, AND THAT'S AWESOME! I don't know if he's just being lenient or whatever (and I don't have a problem with that), but i'd like to know what the actual rulings would be.
1) we faced a coven of hags.
2) they cast what I think is baleful polymorph. I failed the first will save but passed the second.
What can I no longer do?
Can I perform the ritual to summon my synthesize eidolon?
When synthesized with my eidolon, and "speaking through its voice," can I speak as normal?
As a rat, can I still cast spells which have verbal components but are not language dependent?
As a ninja rat, can I still apply sneak attack damage? I.e. via my acid splash or ray of frost cantrips?
If the spell succeeds, the subject must also make a Will save. If this second save fails, the creature loses its extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities, loses its ability to cast spells (if it had the ability),...
So it seems I keep all this stuff if I make the save. Including my [potential] ability to cast spells?
... and gains the alignment, special abilities, and Intelligence, Wisdom, and Charisma scores of its new form in place of its own.
So I keep my mental stats. What about my physical stats. I.e. my constitution? Do I still retain my original racial modifiers to these?
It still retains its class and level (or HD), as well as all benefits deriving therefrom (such as base attack bonus, base save bonuses, and hit points).
So at level 5, am I a rat with 5 HD?.
It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that aren't extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities.
I assume this doesn't negate the first section of what I quoted, but adds to it.
I.e. I retain spell casting, AND spell like or extra ordinary abilities.
| Aureate |
1. Can you speak normally, using the eidolons voice? I would say no.
Fused Eidolon: A synthesist summons the essence of a powerful outsider to meld with his own being.The synthesist wears the eidolon like translucent, living armor. The eidolon mimics all of the synthesist’s movements, and the synthesist perceives through the eidolon’s senses and speaks through its voice, as the two are now one creature.
Since you are a rat, the eidolon is rat shaped and it's voice would be that of a rat.
2. As a rat, can I still cast spells which have verbal components but are not language dependent? To me this is trickier. As written, I don't see why you couldn't. However, that would mean that you have more capability than someone with wildshape, who has to take the feat Natural spell in order to cast. As such I would say no to all spellcasting unless it was still and silent.
3. As a ninja rat, can I still apply sneak attack damage? I.e. via my acid splash or ray of frost cantrips? Yes. I don't see why sneak attacks would be changed.
4. What about my physical stats. I.e. my constitution? Do I still retain my original racial modifiers to these? It works as Beast Shape III so going to that spell
Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.
You keep your physical stats and apply the modifiers listed.
5. So at level 5, am I a rat with 5 HD?. Yes. More specifically a rat with 5 class levels.
6.
"excerpt from baleful polymorph" wrote:I assume this doesn't negate the first section of what I quoted, but adds to it.It retains any class features (other than spellcasting) that aren't extraordinary, supernatural, or spell-like abilities.
I believe this is in reference to failing your second will save. Even if you fail it, you still retain those class features.
Edited to correct size and formatting.
| Lucent |
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Furthermore, the default synthesist eidolon is medium. If your synthesist eidolon is a medium biped, congratulations, you're a real walking (though not talking) person when you have your eidolon summoned (though of course you'll still look weird).
You'll have whatever limbs and other appendages are chosen for your eidolon and can use them how you like. Your enemies may be surprised when your eidolon is destroyed and all that remains is a RAT however.
You could also maybe wear some adorable, tiny barding.
Depending on how much Redwall you read as a child, this could be amazing.
| Aureate |
There's no requirement that your eidolon match your body. Bipedal synthesists can have quadrupedal forms or forms with extra arms. No reason a quadruped can't fuse with a bipedal eidolon.
I hadn't thought of that. Good point. Hrm. I've never run a Synthesist Summoner, but that seems pretty cool. A rat inside a tank.
So I guess I'd amend my original statement to say that if you could cast spells while inside your eidolon before, it would work the same way now. You aren't losing your knowledge of language, just the shape of mouth and hands. But if you could speak normally and had hands before, spellcasting would work the same I guess.
| Sanjiv |
The Eidolon still needs to be bat least the same size than the summoner. Hilariously, this means a rat with access to the eidolons power essentially has a humongous-mecha he can summon and hop into.
snip from pfsrd wrote:The eidolon must be at least the same size as the synthesist.
lol, and anime-style henshin or summon-mech sequences probably take the same minute that a summoner's ritual might take.
| Cevah |
4. What about my physical stats. I.e. my constitution? Do I still retain my original racial modifiers to these? It works as Beast Shape III so going to that spell
prd-beast shape wrote:Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.You keep your physical stats and apply the modifiers listed.
Rat Common: You are now tiny.
Your AC is equal to the following:
10 + armor bonus + shield bonus + Dexterity modifier + other modifiers
Many other factors modify your AC.
You receive a bonus or penalty to your AC based on your size. See Table: Size Modifiers.
Combat Maneuvers:Size .. Size Modifier
Colossal .. –8
Gargantuan .. –4
Huge .. –2
Large .. –1
Medium .. +0
Small .. +1
Tiny .. +2
Diminutive .. +4
Fine .. +8
Creatures that are size Tiny or smaller use their Dexterity modifier in place of their Strength modifier to determine their CMB. The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Bonus is as follows:
Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8.
The special size modifier for a creature's Combat Maneuver Defense is as follows:
Fine –8, Diminutive –4, Tiny –2, Small –1, Medium +0, Large +1, Huge +2, Gargantuan +4, Colossal +8.
Creatures gain a bonus or penalty on Stealth checks based on their size: Fine +16, Diminutive +12, Tiny +8, Small +4, Large –4, Huge –8, Gargantuan –12, Colossal -16.
FAQ:
Should all Tiny creatures use Dex instead of Str for Climb and Swim skill checks, or is that just for familiars?
Any creature of Tiny or smaller size should use its Dex modifier instead of its Str modifier for Climb and Swim checks.
I know that the Familiar rules say "Use the familiar's Dexterity or Strength modifier, whichever is greater, to calculate the familiar's melee attack bonus with natural weapons.", but I cannot find the reference for tiny and smaller creatures to use dex instead of strength for regular melee.
You could also make like a familiar or normal rat for surprising others.
[Brain hurts now. Gotta stop.]
/cevah
Akinra
|
My 2 cents:
Fused Link (Su) is the ability for Synthesist. Note the (Su).
See P. 554 of the Core Rule Book:
"Spell-like abilities are magical and work just like spells (though they are not spells and so have no verbal, somatic, focus, or material components). They go away in an antimagic field and are subject to spell resistance if the spell the ability is based on would be subject to spell resistance.
A spell-like ability usually has a limit on how often it can be used. A constant spell-like ability or one that can be used at will has no use limit. Reactivating a constant spell-like ability is a swift action. Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity. It is possible to make a concentration check to use a spell-like ability defensively and avoid provoking an attack of opportunity, just as when casting a spell. A spell-like ability can be disrupted just as a spell can be. Spell-like abilities cannot be used to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.
For creatures with spell-like abilities, a designated caster level defines how difficult it is to dispel their spell-like effects and to define any level-dependent variables (such as range and duration) the abilities might have. The creature's caster level never affects which spell-like abilities the creature has; sometimes the given caster level is lower than the level a spellcasting character would need to cast the spell of the same name. If no caster level is specified, the caster level is equal to the creature's Hit Dice. The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature's Charisma modifier.
Some spell-like abilities duplicate spells that work differently when cast by characters of different classes. A monster's spell-like abilities are presumed to be the sorcerer/wizard versions. If the spell in question is not a sorcerer/wizard spell, then default to cleric, druid, bard, paladin, and ranger, in that order."
In short, No, SLAs do not require components.
To answer the second part. You are NOT your Eidolon. Your Eidolon's size is based on your Eidolon's evolutions. By default it is Medium. You can make it small at creation for 0 evolution points. You can also increase its size to large. Your personal size is meaningless as your eidolon never changes form once chosen unless you evolve the eidolon. Since you did NOT evolve the Eidolon, its form remains the same.
| Archaeik |
Re: cevah /#4
You forgot to highlight the part about creature's tiny or smaller use Dex to calculate CMB.
Re: dex to normal attack rolls
I believe even the smallest creatures still need to take Weapon Finesse to do this. If you look at bestiary entries, tiny creatures that do this, tend to have finesse.
5. I didn't see this pointed out.
You look like a rat, have the natural attack of a rat, but you did not gain the animal subtype, you are still humanoid (assuming that's what you were before).
| Mythic Evil Lincoln |
Anyway, if I'm the GM, and you're polymorphed and trying to cast — unless you're a parrot you can only cast with no Verbal.
If you're something with thumbs, no penalty on somatic components.
No thumbs: 20% Arcane spell failure (for arcane casters).
Octopus or other radically different body plan: 50% ASF.
In general, allowing characters to function at a significant penalty is more fun than taking people out of the game.
| Remy Balster |
Anyway, if I'm the GM, and you're polymorphed and trying to cast — unless you're a parrot you can only cast with no Verbal.
If you're something with thumbs, no penalty on somatic components.
No thumbs: 20% Arcane spell failure (for arcane casters).
Octopus or other radically different body plan: 50% ASF.
In general, allowing characters to function at a significant penalty is more fun than taking people out of the game.
He is a synthesist though. He doesn't use his rat hands or rat mouth to cast, he uses his eidolons!
This is pretty epic. Hilarious and amazing and awesome all at the same time.
I hope you’ve had a lot of fun with this character OP. (Not sure why we are necroing a thread from apr)