Not sure if this is the right thread for this but here we go.
I've been considering publishing a 3PP monster book, but I have no idea where to start in reguard to advertisement, PDF making, printing and so on.
I'm well versed in converting monsters from 3.5 to pathfinder and have been looking over the monster creation rules extensively so no help needed in that area.
I'd like to know how other companies started up and how they went about starting up the company, constructing their first book/PDF, advertising and so on. Any help on the subject would be much appreciated and if this is the wrong thread I apologise and will see if I can get it moved.
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@DM Aron Marczylo: Good on you for wanting to take the plunge!
Now...
I'm not *very* experienced having published a total of 0 (ZERO) 3PP products. I *do* have a little experience in the industry however, and have gleaned tips here and there. I've done freelance work for Kobold Press and joined a few of their Kickstarters (Journeys to the West, Midgard Tales) and managed to score a few pieces thereby. I've also had an article published in Kobold Quarterly #23 and now am writing a chapter for Misfit Studios "Bite Me - the Gaming guide to Lycanthropy".
Oh, and I've got a few articles in Wayfinder 7 and 8. I also have a fledgling 3PP of my own - you can find it in the Compatibility License Registry under Forest Guardian Press.
Wolfgang Baur of Kobold Press, Christina Stiles (KP/Misfit studios), Ben McFarland (KP/freelancer) and Tim Nightengale (Wayfinder editor) have all been very helpful along the way...
Here is a bunch of information I found useful and some steps I took you might want to look at:
You'll want to look into obtaining the Paizo Compatibility Licence
By submitting an application HERE
Then check out THIS Post
AND
Armed with your Compatibility license and advice from the above threads/posts you can set about creating your PDF - being sure to correctly apply the PF Compatibility logos and also ensuring you conform to the requirements of the OGL/Section 15.
Creating your product as a PDF can be done through publishing programs like InDesign or even Word using Wordart. I have no advice to give on print versions of products, sorry.
Advertising is really your call. It *can* help you to pay for art/and or layout help which is usually the highest cost (bar printing) and frequently cited as the reason for a Kickstarter.(I have supported a number of kickstarters, but have no inside knowledge or immediate desire to embark upon one of my own).
Once your PDF/product is ready, send Liz Courts at Paizo an email at consignments@paizo.com.
Liz is very friendly and quite helpful, willing and able to answer all of your queries re: the ins and outs of compatibility, the OGL, product threads and posts, do's and dont's etc...
I hope you find this post helpful and look forward to your 3PP, monster book and any future endeavours...
Here's a thread from not too long ago that gives lots of great answers, and some of which I would respond in this thread, but don't have to since it's right here!
Also checkout the Demiplane of Gaming Podcast with Steven Russell of Rite Publishing and Owen KC Stephens of Super Genius Games which take time with various 3pp and themselves in just this kind of discussion. Check out all of them, they all pertain.
Here's a thread from not too long ago that gives lots of great answers, and some of which I would respond in this thread, but don't have to since it's right here!
Also checkout the Demiplane of Gaming Podcast with Steven Russell of Rite Publishing and Owen KC Stephens of Super Genius Games which take time with various 3pp and themselves in just this kind of discussion. Check out all of them, they all pertain.
Dang! I thought I linked to that thread already. Seems I didn't. Yes, I concur - that first link is a winner for prospective 3PP's. Good one g-p!
If I were going to do a monster book (and I do plan to do one, perhaps starting in Dec 2013), for one thing, I'd include an illustration of every monster included, which means monster books tend to be more expensive than other game supplements. This means, I'd probably (and will) run a Kickstarter to pay for it. We're currently working on a GM's and Player's Guidebooks to Kaidan paid for by a Kickstarter last year, which is scheduled for release in Oct/Nov 2013 - which is why the delay for a possible monster book.
I've been trying to learn/experience every aspect of creating publications. While I am a freelancer, especially for cartography, I am, by profession a graphic designer with some experience writing. Over the past 2 years, I've been releasing one publication after another as an imprint under Rite Publishing - which gives me access to quality authors, designers and editors, as well as connections to printing and marketing.
Finally my next release (April 11 2013) will be one with my name as lead designer/writer, cartographer and page layout. I've hired Justin Sluder to expand monsters and haunts of the supplement to multiple higher CR versions. Mark Hyzer was hired to do the cover illustration, which we reused as interior art (while I did some of the smaller illustrations), and Dave Paul as editor - I did everything else. That product is called the Haiku of Horror: Autumn Moon Bath House which features fully detailed full color maps of a 4 story Japanese bath house (also sliced full scale printable maps), a staff of NPCs, 3 custom haunts, a unique ghost that comes in versions as CR 6, 10, 14, and 22, and a curse. This will be the first in a series of iconic Japanese locations featuring fully detailed encounters with all the tools to run it - as a plug-n-play drop in encounter/adventure site for any existing module or oriental campaign.
If it's not obvious, I have developed, the Kaidan setting of Japanese horror - my niche.
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I "started my company" by going downtown and filing a Doing Business As to establish my company name, Tripod Machine. Someone helped me with a logo as a favor, and then I started writing my first book. I composed it and formatted it in OpenOffice and used the export function to turn it into a PDF. Making it available as a POD product from Lulu was more work, but by then I had gained more mastery of PDF conversions. I "advertised" by sending out a couple of review copies and posting an announcement in the proper threads for such things on a few message boards. I think when you are getting started, the best thing you can do is put out some fan stuff, but without sinking a lot of money into art or whatever, so you can attract at least a half dozen fans who will follow you into publication.
As far as monster books: have a plan B. Because of the heavy art needs (and don't publish a plain text monster book, just don't) your choices are either to publish a small, focused product, or to run a Kickstarter or something along those lines. And don't expect the Kickstarter to make on the first go. To even come in under a reasonable budget will probably require you to find a good source of stock art to use for the bulk of your illustrations. If you have lots of unique monsters, expect to spend not only money but time on commissioning pieces. To do it right, you'll probably need to hire a couple of pieces up front to use as an example of what your project will look like, and it's okay if you have to run a Kickstarter several times to get it right when it comes to big projects (for small projects, my advice after one failure to kickstart is to either eat it and publish on your own dime or recognize you may be fulfilling a nonexistent need).
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If you are serious about starting a 3PP you might want to first go work for one and lead the ins-and-outs. There is a lot of movie parts to a 3PP business and most of have nothing to do with game design.
3pp e-publishers have a serious leg up, having foregone printed stock. Really, not having to manage pallets of gameboxes, etc. will save you much headache. Small, teaser releases work to get people interested in what you're doing. A number of 3pp focus on a 'tight' set of entries: monsters, true, but Abandoned Arts has a great lines dealing with fleshing out detail (What's the X Like..., shout out).
It may be worth saying that that prior to getting into the garage press RPG business, I previously set on the BOD for a not-for-profit rec organization, ran a (failed) housecleaning business, and built a MUD based on old ROM code. If you like doing stuff, publishing is great. If you really just like writing, write for someone else... unless no one else will buy it and you believe in what you're writing.
3pp e-publishers have a serious leg up, having foregone printed stock. Really, not having to manage pallets of gameboxes, etc. will save you much headache. Small, teaser releases work to get people interested in what you're doing. A number of 3pp focus on a 'tight' set of entries: monsters, true, but Abandoned Arts has a great lines dealing with fleshing out detail (What's the X Like..., shout out).
Honestly, 99% of the work needed to make a print publication is the same for creating a PDF only product. You need cover art, interior art, a writer, a game designer (unless the writer/designer is the same), an editor (a must, no matter who you are), someone to do page layout. There's a little extra work for the page layout guy to prep a production for print at the export stage.
And you can setup an account on DrivethruRPG/RPGNow, then setup an account with LSI (RPGNow's print publisher) and for a fairly reasonable cost make your PDF product a print product. It's not like the old days regarding headaches and enormous costs. Though the page layout guy will have to expect getting a rejection due to border size, proper resolution of art - or a number of issues to tweak before it's accepted for print, that's the only headache.
POD printing means, once you have your proof copy, you don't need to buy a case a books, just wait until customers order their books then LSI makes them and ships them - there are no crates of books or a huge investment in preordered books. It won't really cost you anything at all.
To check out the print quality, I can recommend a product of mine that as it's PDF version is free (one-shot Kaidan module), so you're only paying for the print cost, it's cheap enough to order for comparison's sake. Here's a link to that product on DrivethruRPG.com - Frozen Wind.
It might also be worth getting Open Design's books on the subject: Complete Kobold Guide to Game Design, and the Kobold Guide to World Design - both excellent guides for doing each.
If you are serious about starting a 3PP you might want to first go work for one and lead the ins-and-outs. There is a lot of movie parts to a 3PP business and most of have nothing to do with game design.
I second this with ever fiber of my being.
If you are serious about starting a 3PP you might want to first go work for one and lead the ins-and-outs. There is a lot of movie parts to a 3PP business and most of have nothing to do with game design.I second this with ever fiber of my being.
It's what I do.
I had to dig to find this but Zylphryx, Wicht, and Christina all did some really great suggestions here.
had some great advice in this thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2p63q?New-third-Party-Publisher-Looking-for-Peo ple#27
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It's what I do.If you are serious about starting a 3PP you might want to first go work for one and lead the ins-and-outs. There is a lot of movie parts to a 3PP business and most of have nothing to do with game design.I second this with ever fiber of my being.
Thirded. Decide if you want to publish or if you want to write—the two often do not intersect as well as you might think.
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Thirded. Decide if you want to publish or if you want to write—the two often do not intersect as well as you might think.It's what I do.If you are serious about starting a 3PP you might want to first go work for one and lead the ins-and-outs. There is a lot of movie parts to a 3PP business and most of have nothing to do with game design.I second this with ever fiber of my being.
4th. Developing a drinking habit can't hurt.
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4th. Developing a drinking habit can't hurt.Thirded. Decide if you want to publish or if you want to write—the two often do not intersect as well as you might think.It's what I do.If you are serious about starting a 3PP you might want to first go work for one and lead the ins-and-outs. There is a lot of movie parts to a 3PP business and most of have nothing to do with game design.I second this with ever fiber of my being.
HA!!!!
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I had to dig to find this but Zylphryx, Wicht, and Christina all did some really great suggestions here.
had some great advice in this thread: linkified
Thanks LRGG. :)
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Thanks LRGG. :)I had to dig to find this but Zylphryx, Wicht, and Christina all did some really great suggestions here.
had some great advice in this thread: linkified
@zylphryx: I already linked your exact post in the second post of this thread. Ninja'ed Scott. Equal parts Magpie and Qu'em, y'see. Not impossible, just...improbable.
Ninja'd indeed. Well done. Still a good one. I guess great minds think alike.
~Red
PS: We have a drunken magpie style of qu'em in the source book as an alternate class that is indeed equal parts qu'em & magpie :D
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@zylphryx: I already linked your exact post in the second post of this thread. Ninja'ed Scott. Equal parts Magpie and Qu'em, y'see. Not impossible, just...improbable.Thanks LRGG. :)I had to dig to find this but Zylphryx, Wicht, and Christina all did some really great suggestions here.
had some great advice in this thread: linkified
So you did (I missed the link in the first go through, sorry) ... thank you too Oceanshieldwolf. :)
CEO
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How do you start a 3PP company? Is this the thread where I answer the question:
Question: How do you make a small fortune in the game industry?
Answer: Start with a large fortune!
:)
On a more serious note, I think that starting a game company is probably one of the toughest things in the world to do, and I have started three of them (White Wolf, Wizards of the Coast, and Paizo).
-Lisa
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A passable success rate.
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Question: How do you make a small fortune in the game industry?
Answer: Start with a large fortune!
:)
Lisa you just gave away the "secret sauce"! LOL!!!!
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Thirded. Decide if you want to publish or if you want to write—the two often do not intersect as well as you might think.It's what I do.If you are serious about starting a 3PP you might want to first go work for one and lead the ins-and-outs. There is a lot of movie parts to a 3PP business and most of have nothing to do with game design.I second this with ever fiber of my being.
An EXCELLENT point!
I remember initially thinking I might want to form a little 3PP company myself, since I like (and, I like to think at least, I'm pretty good at ... :) writing, rules design, illustration, cartography and layout/graphic design. Heck, I thought, why NOT form a company and do all of this myself?
After a little soul searching, I realized that, while I like doing all of the above, I do NOT particularly like writing contracts, dealing with production schedule delays etc. I very quickly realized that what I wanted to do was create - be it by writing, game/rule design, illustration, cartography or layout/graphic design. And, for me at least, that entailed becoming a freelancer so I can work with lots of different 3PP companies on lots of different and interesting projects. It did not mean starting my own company.
I guess the moral of this little ramble is - listen well to what Liz and others have said and REALLY make sure you WANT to create a 3PP company before you take the plunge!
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How do you start a 3PP company? Is this the thread where I answer the question:
Question: How do you make a small fortune in the game industry?
Answer: Start with a large fortune!
:)
On a more serious note, I think that starting a game company is probably one of the toughest things in the world to do, and I have started three of them (White Wolf, Wizards of the Coast, and Paizo).
-Lisa
For those of us not blessed with a genius business sense and a deep passion for the industry, might I suggest what at least 5 or 6 others have suggested, and intern/volunteer to work with a company for a bit, to get a peek behind the curtain?
I would be willing to bet after a few months of watching, you may change your mind. You have to LOVE the game, so much so that when you are PAYING YOUR CUSTOMERS to buy your product, it doesn't kill you a little bit every day...(oh, wait, too personal there). it happens with delays, cost overruns, authors/editors/artists/etc. flaking out and not finishing projects (much rarer than it used to be).
it can be extremely rewarding, and you can stumble into working with some fantastic people (Greg Vaghan really is a super-hero), but you gotta want it.
And don't quit. If you're going to do this, you will want to, probably a few times per day. Over the last 2 yeaars, I have wanted to weekly, and Frog God Games has been doing pretty well...<goes cackling madly away...>