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I have read the traps section of the rules and the perception section of the rules, but it does not say anything about at what distance one can spot traps. It only says that to perceive anything over 10 feet there is a +1 to the DC per 10 feet increments.
That makes me think that as long as a PC has line of sight to the trap a perception check for traps should reveal results. I don't know also how many squares the perception check works for.
That makes me think that as long as a PC has line of sight to the trap a perception check for traps should reveal results.
Yes, if the check was successful.
If it's a DC 15 perception check to notice the pressure plate of the trap, and a PC is adjacent to it, then he needs a 15 on his perception check.
If he's 10' away, he needs a 16.
If he's 30' away, he needs an 18.
If he's 100' away, he needs a 25.
That's assuming he can actually see 100' to the plate, and that there's no smoke or corners or stuff in the way.
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Does it say that anywhere or is it meant to be obvious?
Also, sift http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sift seems a little pointless given the -5 penalty.
I only ask because I am told that you can only look at a 5'sq at a time with one perception check, and it has to be adjacent. It seems wrong, given the book, but everybody does it that way. It feels like every trap there is, we have to get caught by it.
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Basically the method you describe is a holdover from when there was a difference between search and spot. Searching for something is kind of like rummaging through a pile (though hopefully more carefully) hence the need to be adjacent and only one square at a time.
The truth is, that many dms get annoyed if a trap fails to go off. So they hold to more difficult rules in the hopes of more of them nailing the pcs. Personally I think traps are overdone in rpg history and need to be brought back into proportion, the new perception rules go a long way to that.
Personally I give anyone about to set off a trap a perception roll to detect it before they activate it. If they actively look they can make a check for any trap that is within view. They would obviously need to approach within reach in order to disable it though.
Does it say that anywhere or is it meant to be obvious?
You already found it.
Perception: "Find a hidden trap - Varies by trap"
"Distance to the source, object, or creature - +1/10 feet"
"Action: Most Perception checks are reactive, made in response to observable stimulus. Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action."
Also, sift http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/s/sift seems a little pointless given the -5 penalty.
Sift is fairly useless unless you need to touch something and would prefer to do so at a distance.
I only ask because I am told that you can only look at a 5'sq at a time with one perception check, and it has to be adjacent.
Has whoever told you that provided you with a rule citation?
It seems wrong, given the book, but everybody does it that way.
In my experience it's mostly people carrying over rules from other game systems that have problems with perception. You'll also find many of them saying only rogues can find traps (or magic traps), and have problems with actions to search, etc.
In Pathfinder RPG, everyone can find traps, even magical traps, if they can make the perception check DC. They can take 10 or even take 20 if they have two minutes to spare.
In Pathfinder RPG, everyone can find traps, even magical traps, if they can make the perception check DC. They can take 10 or even take 20 if they have two minutes to spare.
Umm...what?
What about something like spike growth or spike stones?
Magic traps are hard to detect. A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find a spike growth. The DC is 25 + spell level, or DC 28 for spike growth (or DC 27 for spike growth cast by a ranger). Spike growth can't be disabled with the Disable Device skill.
It says "only rogue" but I assume it means anyone with the Disable Device skill.
Either way "anyone can find magical traps" is not 100% accurate.
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Umm...what?
What about something like spike growth or spike stones?
Magic traps are hard to detect. A rogue (only) can use the Perception skill to find a spike growth. The DC is 25 + spell level, or DC 28 for spike growth (or DC 27 for spike growth cast by a ranger). Spike growth can't be disabled with the Disable Device skill.
It says "only rogue" but I assume it means anyone with the Disable Device skill.
Either way "anyone can find magical traps" is not 100% accurate.
Here we go again. Just when I thought that this issue was solved.
Here we go again. Just when I thought that this issue was solved.
Was it?
*shrugs*
I don't claim to know everything in the rules but I was looking at these spells the other day and when I read this thread I was reminded of them.
If you know some rules or reference that applies here please share.
What about something like spike growth or spike stones?
Unless the spell or item description states otherwise, assume the following to be true.* A successful Perception check (DC 25 + spell level) detects a magic trap before it goes off.
...Magic traps are further divided into spell traps and magic device traps. ...
Spell traps are simply spells that themselves function as traps.
Spike Growth and Spike Stones are spells that function as traps (Spell traps). Since they state otherwise, the rules text in those spells overrides the general rules about detecting magic traps.
Either way "anyone can find magical traps" is not 100% accurate.
It quickly becomes obnoxious to have an "unless the specific rule states otherwise" disclaimer on every sentence. But yes, you are correct, there are certain types of magic traps that may require a rogue to detect.
Thanks for the clarification.
When I asked about these spells the other day I didn't get any useful info, so thanks.
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According to the using skills section of the core rule book, (assuming you aren't distracted or threatened) you can take 20 to find traps. In fact, its one of the examples they list for common times to take 20:
Taking 20: When you have plenty of time, you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20. In other words, if you a d20 roll enough times, eventually you will get a 20. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes 20 times as long as making a single check would take (usually 2 minutes for a skill that takes 1 round or less to perform).
Since taking 20 assumes that your character will fail many times before succeeding, your character would automatically incur any penalties for failure before he or she could complete the task (hence why it is generally not allowed with skills that carry such penalties). Common “take 20” skills include Disable Device (when used to open locks), Escape Artist, and Perception (when attempting to find traps).
Perception is a big change from search/spot in 3rd edition. In pathfinder, you can stand in a room, take a minute (Intentionally searching for stimulus is a move action, you can take 2 move actions per round so 20 move actions = 10rounds = 1min) to carefully look all around you and find any traps within your sight (assuming you have line of sight to them and your perception modifier is high enough).
In the environment section under traps:
Magic: Many spells can be used to create dangerous traps. Unless the spell or item description states otherwise, assume the following to be true.
A successful Perception check (DC 25 + spell level) detects a magic trap before it goes off.
Magic traps permit a saving throw in order to avoid the effect (DC 10 + spell level × 1.5).
Magic traps may be disarmed by a character with the trapfinding class feature with a successful Disable Device skill check (DC 25 + spell level). Other characters have no chance to disarm a magic trap with a Disable Device check.
Note that is says a perception check detects the trap before it goes off. Everyone should get a passive perception check to notice a trap before they step on it. The distance from the trap at which you could spot it would be up to the game master and vary a lot depending on the design of the trap. However, even if your sight is blocked to see it until you are right on top of the trap, you still get a perception roll to notice before you set it off.
As far as spells like spiked growth go, my guess is that it's a holdover from 3rd edition, when only rogues could find traps with a spot DC over 20. They probably forgot or didn't think to change when they copied it into the new rules.