I am going to play a magus in a upcoming game and I'm thinking of taking 1 or 2 levels of monk.
I't going to be Bladebound Kensai and the Monk is going to be Master of Many Styles and Hungry Ghost.
I want to take 3 levels of magus before the monk, but i don't know at with levels after that I'm going to take the Monk levels.
I'm dipping monk to increase the defenses of the build. I'm thinking Crane Style.
My stats are roll and i'm playing an elf
Str 10
Dex 20
Con 10
Int 20
Wis 16
Cha 8
Any suggestions About wen to take the monk levels or other useful styles?
Take the Hexcrafter archetype, so you can take Hex Strike. Slumber or Evil Eye are good candidates.
With Master of many styles, if you play Human, 2 levels are enough for the whole Crane style line of feat.
Seeing you plan to play with 10 Con, you're gonna be real low on hit points for the first couple of levels.
I'd say start immediately with Monk so you get a +3 to AC from your Wis, +3 from fighting defensively with Crane Style, and +1 from dodge (and +4 from a 18 dex), bumping your AC to 21 at 1st level!
Plus Crane Wing that lets you deflect 1 attack that hits/round. And good saves on top of that.
So I would do Master of many style human Monk like this:
Level 1: dodge (regular feat)+ Crane style (Human bonus feat) + Crane Wing (MoMS feat)
Level 2: Crane Riposte (MoMS bonus Feat)
Then you can have fun with bladebound Kensai Magus.
Are those stats set in stone?
Pupsocket@ I'm not interested in Hexcrafter. but thanks for your interest
Booloo@ I might take that rout with monk first. But I'm still want to play an Elf.
rkraus2@ There not, but that's the way i would put them. the stats before rascal modifiers are 10 18 12 18 16 8. How would you change them?
If you play Elf then you might want to take a 1 level dip in unarmed fighter to get Crane Riposte earlier then level 6.
Crane wing at first level would be a huge boost in defense, meaning you won't get hit in most fights unless you get surrounded.
It's still really good at level 2 though, but first level will be painful with a negative BAB and no autodeflect.
Oh and couple it with deflect arrows later for the win.
More of a rule question but ...
Monk crane style requires a free hand
Magus spell combat requires a free hand
Assuming they have a one handed weapon, can they use both crane and cast in the same round?
I'm probably not going to dip unarmed fighter but i will kip it in mind. For it's crane wing i really want. But I will probably take crane riposte latter.
And i will definitely get deflect arrows. It will be awesome to be able to deflect one range and och melee attack per round.
We play with a house rule that will make level one a bit easier to survive. You get the Hp from level one and two at First level.
Is it a good idea to change my Int and Wis? So it's Int 18 and Wis 18? and are there any other good style feats for this build?
For it's crane wing i really want. But I will probably take crane riposte latter.
Crane wing will be enough to let you survive the early levels. Crane Riposte is nice but its mostly a damage increase. I would not push back my Magus Progression for it.
And i will definitely get deflect arrows. It will be awesome to be able to deflect one range and och melee attack per round.
I think this depends on your DM and party comp, but Im not sure I would spend a feat here. You should already be feat starved. Your going to need Weapon Finesse and Dervish Dance. If your human and go monk first, your not going to get them until level 5. After that there seems to be so many great feats, not sure I would worry about Deflect Arrow.
Is it a good idea to change my Int and Wis? So it's Int 18 and Wis 18? and are there any other good style feats for this build?
Aside from the +1 bonus to Will saves and wisdom based skills, why would you do this? Keep the 18 in INT, you will get more out of it there. If I would swap anything, I might swap the WIS and CON. This would give you 3 more hp per level and +3 Fort save. You would lose out on 3 AC and +3 Will save, but I think the HP will help more than the AC down the road.
I'd switch for a higher CON as well.
And if you ask really, really nice, maybe you can get Kung-fu genius or carmendine monk from 3.5
and are there any other good style feats for this build?
Dragon style is awesome for most builds (although a tad less good for elves):
While using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against sleep effects, paralysis effects, and stunning effects. You ignore difficult terrain when you charge, run, or withdraw. You can also charge through squares that contain allies. Further, you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike on a given round.
You must get it through either MoMS or Unarmed Fighter though with 10 For.
Further more you could take a look at Mantis style if you like using Stunning Fist and want to keep using it while multiclassing.
Why would they not? The requirement of a free hand is met.More of a rule question but ...
Monk crane style requires a free hand
Magus spell combat requires a free handAssuming they have a one handed weapon, can they use both crane and cast in the same round?
If you are casting a spell with your free hand its not really free anymore or is it?
If you are using crane to deflect an attack with your free hand its not really free anymore or is it?
I don't question if the hand is free for either use. I question if both uses can be utalized in the same round.
Edit:
Spellcombat is basically TWF with a spell in the off hand and uses a full round action so I don't think you have a free hand when using it.
Slacker2010@ I will see how feat starved i am wen i play. If I'm to starved i wont take Deflect Arrow.
I'd swap them too get 1+ ac and will saves. But i am probably going to stick with the intelligent.
I'm don't think i will increase the con fore sacrificing Wis that will give me will Ac and Will saves. I really don't want my sword controlling me. In my experiences it's better to not be hit.
And I might be playing with this house rule for skills Link.
just 18 INT is fine for Magus you dont even need 18 at lvl 1 its pritty awsome already!
considering you have both high WIS and INT means you wil be awsome in skillranks! getting awsome perception :-) and ofcours
with your rols i also dont see anny way how to get you a better CON score but i would defenetly invest in toughness and take your fav class bonus in HP
at lvl 1 you might be safe but as soon as you hit EL2 you stil could die pritty Fast and good defensive bufs like shield wands or mirror image come alot later.
with your con i would also take Monk befor magus :-) even though i love the Magus :-)
I'd swap them too get 1+ ac and will saves. But i am probably going to stick with the intelligent.
With Kensai your Int will be added to your AC (granted not right off the bat) so there is no loss there. The big one here is your Arcane Pool, Spells, Skill points, Arcane Accuracy Arcana, etc will all benefit more from the higher INT. All that for +1 will save? I would just get a trait that gave me +1 Will save.
Slacker2010@ your probably right
If you are casting a spell with your free hand its not really free anymore or is it?If you are using crane to deflect an attack with your free hand its not really free anymore or is it?
I don't question if the hand is free for either use. I question if both uses can be utalized in the same round.
Edit:
Spellcombat is basically TWF with a spell in the off hand and uses a full round action so I don't think you have a free hand when using it.
RAW, you cannot spell combat and crane wing on the same round. Your other hand must be free to use spell combat and spell combat is a full round action, meaning it doesn't finish until your next turn.
However, the rules say that the hand is being used to cast a spell. This implies that once you complete your spell and attack, the hand is free again and capable of using crane wing. The GM will have to decide whether to rule this or the strict RAW.
Even in the second case, you cannot crane wing and spell combat at the same time. So if your spell combat provokes an attack of opportunity, you can't use crane wing to deflect that attack. And of course, you can't use crane style to deflect an attack of opporunity provoked by a standard spellcasting unless both hands are free or the spell has no somantic components.
on te other hand 1 arcne point could be a bigg difrence and 16 wisdom is plenty!
maybe 20 int wouldnt be all that bad skil monkey FTW! :-)
If you are casting a spell with your free hand its not really free anymore or is it?If you are using crane to deflect an attack with your free hand its not really free anymore or is it?
I don't question if the hand is free for either use. I question if both uses can be utalized in the same round.
Edit:
Spellcombat is basically TWF with a spell in the off hand and uses a full round action so I don't think you have a free hand when using it.RAW, you cannot spell combat and crane wing on the same round. Your other hand must be free to use spell combat and spell combat is a full round action, meaning it doesn't finish until your next turn.
However, the rules say that the hand is being used to cast a spell. This implies that once you complete your spell and attack, the hand is free again and capable of using crane wing. The GM will have to decide whether to rule this or the strict RAW.
Even in the second case, you cannot crane wing and spell combat at the same time. So if your spell combat provokes an attack of opportunity, you can't use crane wing to deflect that attack. And of course, you can't use crane style to deflect an attack of opporunity provoked by a standard spellcasting unless both hands are free or the spell has no somantic components.
I brought it up because the magus is most effective when they can use spellcombat (usually with arcane strike/spellstrike) so if the magus is usually using the full round action to spell combat (aka TWF with a spell), a feat that requires a free hand may not be capable and using up a feat for it doesn't optimize ... generally
I have to agree that going this monk crane style thing might not be a great advantage to you at all. I honestly don't think you need it because with a 20 Int and 20 Dex, you'll have 20 AC without any armor. Remember that the magus has other defensive options, such as Spell Shield, Shield, and Vanish.
What about two levels in fighter (lore warden)? You'll get more skill points, bonus feats, and combat expertise. This will let you get Dervish Dance early and qualify for Moonlight Stalker since you're an elf. Fighter also meshes very well with kensai. How does this look?:
1st level - Magus (kensai/bladebound): Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (scimitar)
2nd level - Fighter (lore warden): Dervish Dance
3rd level - Fighter (lore warden): Blind-Fight, Combat Expertise, Moonlight Stalker
Then go straight Magus from there. Your first level will be tough with that +1 to your attack but you'll have 20 AC and can get Dervish Dance early.
I would really be interested in seeing something in the rules stating a hand used to cast a spell is no longer considered empty.
The rules say "free hand," not "empty hand." An empty hand is a hand that simply has nothing in it. A free hand is a hand not occupied with carrying out an action or holding an item. The rules explicitly say that casting a spell with spell combat or a material/somatic component requires a free hand. That hand is occupied with casting the spell. Therefore, it's not a free hand anymore. For spell combat, the description explicitly says that the spell functions like an offhand attack. Therefore, that hand is occupied. In any way you look at it, you won't have a free hand to use crane wing if you're spell combating.
My advice would be not to Multi class at all, it delays your spell and class progression. With your stats you will be fine.
if i had those rolls i would definetly put 16 in CON and go full kensai bladebound magus :-)
makes more sense to me and would be awsomely powerfull :-)
Yeah, I'd say not multiclass at all or dip into lore warden for free feats and skills, which would round you out a bit more. Unless you want to use flurry of blows when you're not spell combating (which would need different ability score allocation), I don't really see much of a reason to dip into monk.
Both abilities specify a condition must exist (user must have a free hand). Neither ability states the required condition ceases to exist once the ability has been used.
Not true. Spell combat says that the offhand is being used for casting a spell. Your hand is not free. Therefore, you cannot spell combat with crane wing.
Also, it's common sense that any ability that requires a free hand makes use of that hand. Take note that many abilities in the game imply they use up a hand, even when they don't explicitly say so. Grappling is an example.
By that example a monk using unarmed attacks wouldnt have a free hand.
Can you site something to back up this line of reasoning?
A monk doesn't have to use his hands to make an unarmed attack
Also, it's common sense that any ability that requires a free hand makes use of that hand.Unfortunately, common sense and RAW seldom intersect.
So are you saying that an ability/feat that specifically says that you are required to have a free hand doesn't actually use that free hand?
Also, it's common sense that any ability that requires a free hand makes use of that hand.Unfortunately, common sense and RAW seldom intersect.
While that's true, the Paizo designers also explicitly stated that common sense be the judge in cases of rule questions.
Speaking of which, maybe we should move this debate to the rule question forum:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pm38?Is-a-hand-no-longer-free-during-an-action #1
But I do think it's perfectly clear that RAW, you cannot spell combat and crane wing at the same time. Spell combat says your free hand is used to cast a spell. Therefore, your hand is not free to crane wing. It's up to the GM to decide if this condition lasts for a round. Strictly speaking, your hand is occupied for one round because of the way full round actions work. However, it can be argued the hand is free after the attack and spell for the same reason a TWF can drop a sword after he's done attacking.
So, keep that in mind, gourry. I hope you have fun with your magus. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
I actually agree with you Cyrad. You can't use spell combat and crane wing in the round.
I only brought it up because as stated, a Magus is most effective when they are using spell cambat to get multiple attacks and spending a feat on something that can't be used is not a great use of a feat.
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So are you saying that an ability/feat that specifically says that you are required to have a free hand doesn't actually use that free hand?Also, it's common sense that any ability that requires a free hand makes use of that hand.Unfortunately, common sense and RAW seldom intersect.
I am saying the hand is still considered free unless specifically stated otherwise.