|
One of my players from my games don`t engage in games, she makes excellent characters, with rich stories and personalities, but in game, play only half a session, preferring to check on the internet, or watch TV. Even when she plays, she is very aloof and out of character, and do other things like draw or sculptures. I tried to talk about the issue with her, she says my gaming style have no problem, she likes her character to the point to be pissed of, when some other character outdo hers when she is engaged (which is rarely).
I have tried to make adventures - heck, even hole campaigns - based on her characters stories to no avail.
But she responds very well when i gm solo to her, but with a bigger group with more than me and her, she shy away.
It`s not shyiness, because one of the other players is her boyfriend, i`m lost and considering to take her out from the gamimg group, but this would be a shame, because she is my sister, we live together and play RPG together since we were children.
What to do?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Are the other players loud/overbearing compared to her? Some people will not respond if others are the "loud talkers" at the table.
Suggestion - Pace your scenes so that there are points where you go around the table and ask everyone what they do. Go in order of right-to-left or left-to-right, and ask "You're here in town, what do you want to do?" and listen to each individual player.
I'm sorry, did you say that you have a TV on in the background while you are gaming? Or did you mean to say that the player gets up from the table and goes to another room to watch TV? Either way something is wrong.
|
|
Yes, people on my table tend to be very loud, all trying to do at the same time, when this happens, i pace the scenes as you suggest, but it seems it is too late, and she alredy lost interest/shiyed away. That or i`m pacing the scene wrong.
Truth be told, i while ago i tended to take her on second plane, because i tooked her for granted and because of her aloofness most of the game, it seemed unfair to others that were engaged since the beggining, arrived early to play, only to wait her goodwill to join us. But, i noticed that thi was a mistake and tried to focus limelight on their character, maybe the damage has been done? If so, how to fix?
|
|
I'm sorry, did you say that you have a TV on in the background while you are gaming? Or did you mean to say that the player gets up from the table and goes to another room to watch TV? Either way something is wrong.
The TV is on her computer, i can`t prevent my sister to get up from the table and go to her bedroom, can i?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
... people on my table tend to be very loud, all trying to do at the same time ...
It is really sad since we are all adults, but sometimes I have to actually stop the game and actually say:
You are not 7 year olds.
Use your inside voice.
Wait your turn to talk rather than shouting over someone else.
{sigh}
|
|
... people on my table tend to be very loud, all trying to do at the same time ...It is really sad since we are all adults, but sometimes I have to actually stop the game and actually say:
{sigh}You are not 7 year olds.
Use your inside voice.
Wait your turn to talk rather than shouting over someone else.
Nice!
People tend to become excited when a turn of events, or something surprising happens, but yes, you are right, i gm to a bunch of grown up men who should gulp their excitement until his turn, next time i`ll be more watchful to scene pacing, and try to prevent that from happen.
Still on topic, how you do game pacing? I ask my players to be quiet and point clockwise who will act/talk first.
I'm sorry, did you say that you have a TV on in the background while you are gaming? Or did you mean to say that the player gets up from the table and goes to another room to watch TV? Either way something is wrong.The TV is on her computer, i can`t prevent my sister to get up from the table and go to her bedroom, can i?
You're darn right you can! If you were in the middle of a Monopoly game would your sister just get up and leave to go watch TV? If so there's a lot more going on here than just RPG dynamics. If I'm playing a game with someone and they just get up and go to another room to watch TV it would be a pretty big deal. If a player at one of my tables did this, I'd have an adult conversation with them as soon as the game was over, and let them know that if they ever did that again, they would no longer be welcome at the table.
|
|
Well, i did not tried this extreme (alas, correct) action you suggest, MendeWall12, but i alredy talked to her many times over, promising better treatment for her characters, trying to reason her against the prejudice her actions brings to gameplay fluidity, and frankly asking what is the problem or why. She never gave me a direct answer. I said that maybe my mistake is take her for granted and robbing her characters a little in favor to the characters of more focused players, but thinking on that now, maybe she take me from granted as a ever welcoming GM who will ever pardon her and reserve her sit at the table, always. Sadly, that is the truth. But my game enjoyment, and of other players, as they talked wit me after game are being compromised, and i feel something different must be done, i `m just looking for a alternative to outright kick her from the table. Maybe prohibiting her to join at the table when she arrives late for the duration of the day?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As with most of these kind of issues, talk to her about this. She's your sister, so hopefully she is amenable to listening. Say a lot of what you said in your OP--both complimenting her roleplaying and her passion for her character as well as expressing your concern about her apparent disinterest in cooperating in a group.
There are players who really get into the story elements of the game, but want to be "the star" of the show, and forget that RPGs are cooperative games and that part and parcel of the deal is that everybody gets to shine. Players need to agree to that part of the deal if they want to keep playing. You can promise to make sure you play out some of her cool background--and you should do so, both for her and the rest of the party--but she also needs to agree to interact with the group and be a team player, and if she is unwilling to do so, then RPGs really aren't for her, at least not non-solo ones.
Another thing I'd consider is making sure she realized the other PCs are a valuable source of roleplay. "The Stars" type players tend to forget the PCs. I had a player who has a profound and bizarre obsession with NPCs--really, I think it's a profound obsession with having the GM's attention. I had to ask her point blank to please stop seeking out NPCs to interact with, that I could not be expected to RP with her and her alone all the time, that it was not fair to the rest of the players. I further asked her to please talk to the PCs more--and I made some specific suggestions as to how certain PCs would actually help her character with various interests in background points (e.g., "this guy's from the same area you are, maybe you could talk to him about X," and "you want yourself some custom armor, and this guy in the party is a craftsman, so why don't you talk to him about that rather than seek out an armorer NPC?" She took my advice and once she turned her intense roleplaying energy toward her fellow players, she not only thrived but others started roleplaying more at her prompting.
While you're at it, I might ask other players good at RPing try to initiate RPing with your sister to help her see there is opportunity there for her to play her character and her story with her fellow players--they are there to help enable each other's stories, not compete, and a fellow helpful player might help her realize that even more than the GM.
I'd suggest looking over the GameMastery Guide for its advice on how to deal with certain players as well. The .pdf is $10 if you don't have it (the advice is unfortunately but understandably not in the GMG section of the Pathfinder Reference Document).
Also, as to some of the other issues, has she ever GMed? Does she know how hard it is? I would point out how time consuming it is to prepare a game and how difficult it is to GM. Sometimes players who have never GMed do not realize the amount of work it takes, and once it's pointed out, are willing to be a little more respectful to the GM. If she or other players don't care how much work it is and aren't willing to show a little patience or courtesy, that's a signal it's time to do something else together, like play a board game or go to the movies.
As for the problem with distractions with electronic devices: first of all, I would established with the entire group a no-distractions policy. Say something at like this at the start of the session:
"Guys, I'm noticing some of you are checking email and watching stuff on the Internet during game. This is a big game which takes time to prep for, and I need you to pay attention to what is going on, not just for me, but for each other as well. I don't mind if you use your laptops or phones to reference the rules or your character sheets, but please don't surf the Web, stream video, check your email, or otherwise do anything that isn't to do with playing the game itself. This game is only a few hours a (week/month/etc.), if you can't go for that much time without playing on your computers or whatever, it tells me you're not interested in playing. If you keep using your devices to distract yourself from the game, I'm going to have to ask you to either give up the device during the game, or otherwise I will ask you leave the game, period. If no one is willing to agree to this, then I have to wonder why you all want to play this game if you don't want to pay attention to it while you're here.
"If I am not running things in a way that keeps your interest, please tell me what you'd like to see happen in game, and let me know what I can do to keep you going. I'd rather you talk to me so we can make it a fun experience for you, than just ignore half the session happening."
If you have situations where the party splits so you have to focus attention on one group and not another for a time, encourage other people to do things like roleplay with each other in the background and/or do other things related to the game that keeps them involved.
It is also okay to call individual people out, including your sister, if they are clearly not participating.
I had a player in a group who, while a group of other players were resolving a rules argument, put on his earphones, turned on his iPod, and laid down on the couch. This was not the first time this had happened. I shouted to him, "ARE YOU BORED?"
He took off his earphones. I said to him, "Look, I'm sorry this took time away from the game. But I need you to stay engaged with the game, even if the attention is not on you for the moment. I would appreciate it if you would try to engage with the other players, such as through background roleplaying. And if otherwise there is anything I can do to make our sessions interesting to you, I would really appreciate it if you would talk to me about it after session so we can work it out. But I cannot have you or anyone else actually tuning out the game with iPods or anything else while you're here, that is not fair to me or anyone else taking the time to play this game."
He apologized--profusely, in fact. He turned off the iPod, participated. Afterward, he did come to me with some concerns about the game, and I made sure I addressed those concerns. Other players too offered me some advice about how to help move the game along--I was an inexperienced GM at the time and it was a larger group than I really could handle effectively--and they gave me some good thoughts on how to handle both the players who could help derail the game as well as push the story along and keep players occupied even if they weren't involved in the main action at the moment.
Speaking of which:
Still on topic, how you do game pacing? I ask my players to be quiet and point clockwise who will act/talk first.
If the players AREN'T inclined to talk over each other, I let them speak in the order they are moved. If there is a situation where you want to hear from everyone and/or people are all talking at once, your solution is fine--just go around the table. Sometimes, if people are reacting to something major, I actually have them roll initiative, even if there is no actual combat. The dice are a fair and impartial arbiter, generally speaking, and after all, it's fair to assume PCs who are generally more reactive (high Init scores) have a better chance of going first. Sometimes it helps resolve disputes as to what is supposed to happen in what order.
On the subject of pacing, I would also suggest...
If the party splits a lot, or one character tends to be taking up a lot of time, put an eye on the clock. If you've spent more than 5 minutes on one character or a small group, then say at an opportune moment, "Okay, hold it right there, let me check on the rest of the group and see what they're doing in the meantime." Then go around the table to the rest of the group. That helps enforce to the players that you consider everyone's time important and will not let one person or a small group dominate the table for a long period of time. Often at least in my experience the biggest problems with players disappearing/zoning out/falling into distraction is because they feel like they don't have anything to do, and the easiest solution is--give them something to do.
ETA: Finally:
If she is not answering your concerns directly, and seems hell bent on doing everything but actually properly participate in the game, then she does not want to play. Her actions are speaking louder than her words. If you've absolutely tried everything and she still is not responsive, then it is okay to ask her to leave the game. I know it's hard because she's your sister and you have to deal with her on a regular basis, but if she's bored and disinterested and there's nothing you've tried that works, then she needs to go.
If anything, maybe your laying down the flat ultimatum of "participate and/or tell me what I'm doing wrong, or leave" might force her into sharing what's got her so distracted.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Yikes DQ! Write a novel why don't ya. Here I am offering snarky comments, and you come in and save the day with actual thought-provoking advice. Way to make me look bad. ;)
|
|
Amazing advices, DeatQuaker, thank you!
As for some topics you pointed:
Yes, she alredy GMed, but all the hardwork to make encounters, put treasures and designing NPCs was mine, she came with background, adventure plot and storytelling.
About a frank talk in the beggining of the session: I found an excellent idea, i already did this some years ago and seemed very effective, she payed attention better for some time, at least. Time to cast the same spell a second time, i guess.
I`ll try to use you advises to the best, and hope things get better.
|
|
I talked about my concerns to her today, it was a extremely brief conversation, obviously she did not take seriously my concerns, and said that she laughed when she saw this topic.
I said to her about an unfortunate episode that happened once, when we were in the middle of an adventure, and her character was an NPC controlled by me, when she showed up to play. We are so focused on the game that her flicker willingness to play at that moment disrupted the game's mood, because she asked what had happen, and we were very uncomfortable to resume 8 hours of gaming to her.
In reply to this she said: "So i don't play anymore".
I'm 100% sure she spoke that joking, not taking seriously the hole problem that her behavior became.