I am going to be playing a half-elf wizard/cleric of Ragathiel who is going to PRC into mystic theruge. I have the magical knack trait. I am wondering what specialization for the wizard would be best. I am thinking evoker. I think I will be taking the Destruction and Nobility domains or maybe Good.
Right now he has the Elven Spirit feat and I think he is going to be the magic item maker for the group. I also want him to take the Arcane Armor feat at least once.
I know from the boards that many do not like the Mystic Theruge.That is your opinion, I happen to think that it is a neat class for this character concept.
Any advice on the build with the given information? Thanks in advance.
First off, enjoy the mystic theurge.
Now, what specialization would be best? That depends on what sort of spells you plan to cast. Mystic theurges tend to be at their best casting buff spells (Nobility and Good domains are very good here), or non-save control spells, rather than directly targeting enemies (so skip the Destruction domain). If you're looking for extra spells with your specialization I would recommend transmutation or conjuration, which have lots of good spells and decent school abilities. Possibly specialize in divination for the initiative boost.
If you're going to be the magic item maker, recall that a lot of item creation feats depend on caster level, and make sure yours is high enough to take the feat.
See if your GM will allow the 3.5 'must take at level 1' feat that lets a wizard take a level 2 spell immediately. Anything you can do to get early entry into MT will be good. There are several ideas, though all of them take an open minded GM. Search the past MT threads for more on that.
As to spell selection and school, evoker isn't a bad choice. You want to stay away from DC dependent builds like illusion and save or suck/die focuses as well as summoning. Evoker can be DC dependent too, but you can specialize in ray spells to deal with that. There's a surprisingly high amount of things you can do just with Scorching Ray and metamagic. I don't know how many metamagic feats you'll be able to take though if you're busy crafting magic items.
If you REALLY wanted to craft items, there's a cleric archetype (forge-something) that you might want to look into. But MT is good too.
Your going to have a lot of options for buffing and battlefield control, and enough spell slots to get a good coverage on out-of-battle utility. Those are pretty nice advantages, especially if you're the only caster. Even if you're not, the presence of a mystic theurge means the other classes are free to specialize.
One option that becomes viable for a MT is the Universalist school. The loss of spell slots aren't as big of a problem, and the payoff makes universalist another option to consider.
BBT, it takes a little longer to get into the PRC with it.
First off, enjoy the mystic theurge.
Now, what specialization would be best? That depends on what sort of spells you plan to cast. Mystic theurges tend to be at their best casting buff spells (Nobility and Good domains are very good here), or non-save control spells, rather than directly targeting enemies (so skip the Destruction domain). If you're looking for extra spells with your specialization I would recommend transmutation or conjuration, which have lots of good spells and decent school abilities. Possibly specialize in divination for the initiative boost.
If you're going to be the magic item maker, recall that a lot of item creation feats depend on caster level, and make sure yours is high enough to take the feat.
Doesn't caster level go up with the MT PRC though?
That is some pretty good info to think about. What schools would be good to choose for prohibited?
See if your GM will allow the 3.5 'must take at level 1' feat that lets a wizard take a level 2 spell immediately. Anything you can do to get early entry into MT will be good. There are several ideas, though all of them take an open minded GM. Search the past MT threads for more on that.
As to spell selection and school, evoker isn't a bad choice. You want to stay away from DC dependent builds like illusion and save or suck/die focuses as well as summoning. Evoker can be DC dependent too, but you can specialize in ray spells to deal with that. There's a surprisingly high amount of things you can do just with Scorching Ray and metamagic. I don't know how many metamagic feats you'll be able to take though if you're busy crafting magic items.
If you REALLY wanted to craft items, there's a cleric archetype (forge-something) that you might want to look into. But MT is good too.
Your going to have a lot of options for buffing and battlefield control, and enough spell slots to get a good coverage on out-of-battle utility. Those are pretty nice advantages, especially if you're the only caster. Even if you're not, the presence of a mystic theurge means the other classes are free to specialize.
One option that becomes viable for a MT is the Universalist school. The loss of spell slots aren't as big of a problem, and the payoff makes universalist another option to consider.
That is a good idea (universalist). Isnt the Magic Item creation archetype for dwarves only?
I am also thinking of bonding with the bastard sword once I get it.
Caster level does go up with MT, but (for instance) at level 6 you'll be cleric 3/wizard 3, with a caster level of 3. At level 7 you'll be C3/W3/MT1 with a caster level of 4. Unless you can find a way to boost caster level, it'll be a while before you can take some of the higher-level crafting feats.
Arcane bond will definitely add to your flexibility and an extra highest-level wizard spell each day isn't bad.
Prohibited schools strongly depend on what you prefer NOT to cast. I'd recommend necromancy (as a cleric of Ragathiel, you won't be animating undead, and most of the remaining necromancy spells are save-or-suck, which mystic theurges aren't good at.) After that, I don't know. Enchantment is mostly save-or-suck, another good one to drop. But it's ultimately up to your preferred play style.
Oh, you're solid on the human heritage?
Okay. Take the adopted trait. Problem solved. :)
Mystically Inclined, he has the Elven Spirit feat for great benefits.
Caster level does go up with MT, but (for instance) at level 6 you'll be cleric 3/wizard 3, with a caster level of 3. At level 7 you'll be C3/W3/MT1 with a caster level of 4. Unless you can find a way to boost caster level, it'll be a while before you can take some of the higher-level crafting feats.
Arcane bond will definitely add to your flexibility and an extra highest-level wizard spell each day isn't bad.
Prohibited schools strongly depend on what you prefer NOT to cast. I'd recommend necromancy (as a cleric of Ragathiel, you won't be animating undead, and most of the remaining necromancy spells are save-or-suck, which mystic theurges aren't good at.) After that, I don't know. Enchantment is mostly save-or-suck, another good one to drop. But it's ultimately up to your preferred play style.
I have the magical knack trait for wizard.
I am really excited to play this character. Is there any other salient advice?
I like the half elf because he can multiclass and get the benefit of both classes as favored classes. Kind of fits, in my mind, Ragathiel himself.
All Pathfinder stuff.
Mystically Inclined, he has the Elven Spirit feat for great benefits.
Oops. For some reason I thought you were human, not half elf. Silly Myst.
Anyway, just to clear something up, I wasn't recommending the cleric forge thing for the cleric half of your mystic theurge build. I was saying that if you REALLY wanted to focus on crafting magic items, you could full time as the dwarven cleric.
Anyway, let me repeat that if there is a way you can use to get into MT early, you should do it. Talk to your GM. :)
I really am not a fan of dwarves.
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What about Witch?
You could go Archon-Blooded Aasimar with the Scion of Humanity alternate racial trait, take the Racial Heritage(Orc) feat.
Go Scarred Witch Doctor, then Cleric.
This gives you more hit points, AC boosts, Angelic Flavor, less MAD, and you will always have a Hex to fall back on.
This path also has the option of being a bit more martial, if you wish.
Interesting take.
Crusader cleric for the mystic theruge or theologian.
The only problem is that the witch hexes would not level as I did.
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It's fine.
Increases in constitution, Ability Focus feat, and the Corset of Dire Witchcraft will boost Hexs.
Choose Hexes that don't require a higher Witch Level to fully function, like the Slumber, or Prehensile Hair Hex.
Having one of your casting stats being physical, and one mental, means you can pump one with a belt, and the other, with a headband.
This decreases the cost of raising both caster stats.
That is something to think about. I don't see witches worshipping Ragathiel however.
Before you go to far on building MT look at this thread.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pjlt?Fake-Mystic-Theurge-build-advice
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Can you use Spell Like Abilities to qualify for Prestige classes. I have done a search and found nothing to say you can’t and the description of SLA’s suggests you can.
“Spell-Like Abilities: Usually, a spell-like ability works just like the spell of that name. A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, or material component, nor does it require a focus. The user activates it mentally. Armor never affects a spell-like ability's use, even if the ability resembles an arcane spell with a somatic component.
A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description. In all other ways, a spell-like ability functions just like a spell.”
If so you could use the Dreamspeaker alternate ability for the elf to be able to cast Dream 1/day which would allow you to only take one level of wizard and 3 levels of cleric and go into MT at 5th instead of 7th. That is if you could assume that a 5th level spell will qualify as a 2nd level spell for the prerequisites as it would for an Arcane Trickter.
“Dreamspeaker: A few elves have the ability to tap into the power of sleep, dreams, and prescient reverie. Elves with this racial trait add +1 to saving throw DCs for spells of the divination school and sleep effects they cast. In addition, elves with a Charisma of 15 or higher may use dream once per day as a spell-like ability (caster level is equal to the elf's character level). This racial trait replaces the elven immunities racial trait.”
Unlike the Arcane trickster which states a 2nd level spell or higher MT states a 2nd level spell which may just have invalidated my suggestion.
This would mean you would have to be an elf not a half elf though. Don’t know if there is one for the clerical side of things or not but the lowest you could go would be 4th level to enter the MT class due to the skill requirements needed.
I always wondered if this was allowed.
I am not sure that a spell like ability = a spell.
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I'm not either which is why I asked.
The requirements say you need to be able to cast a spell of a certain level. Does a SLA qualify you for this?
It does say it functions like a spell however ...
Anyway I'm sure someone on here will be able to point us in the right direction of a rule allowing or dis-allowing this. :)
I believe that it would be in the wording of the ability or the Pre-Req.
Thanks RangerJeff!
Just had my second session with my soon-to-be MT (C2/W1) and enjoying him so far. He does have a ton of buff spells and with a conjuration specialist build, he has the school's acid dart ability to call back on when he needs to do some damage. Combined with a park of power and an item arcane bond, he's got TONS of spellcasting goodness at his fingertips. I also tookthe extra traits fear and took Magical Knack, which puts my caster level back up to par, although that missing spell level (compared to a straight Mage) does hurt a bit. I have to say though, he's pretty damn fun so far!
That sounds like great fun! I started mine tonight. He is a universal wizard right now. I think I will go cleric when he gets to 2nd level so that I can get a feat and get arcane armor. He got beat up in the 2nd fight.
Yes, the first session we dominated, but we had a tough go this time with a trio of medium water elementals. The Druid went down twice, her bear once and the sorcerer once, while I spent much of the encounter at 3hp. All I can say is Wand of CLW FTW! ;)
Due to an oversight on my part, I neglected to take Mage Armor, which wasn't good for my health. I'm rectifying that next session first thing with a scroll purchase/transcribing. Even though I can wear armor due to the cleric levels, I don't for the arcane spell failure, as well as flavour reasons. That sure came back to bite me when I couldn't stay out of the fight this time around. Ouch!
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The wording in the Pre Req says able to cast a spell of a set level or above a set level. A spell like ability is the ability to cast a spell whether through force of will or through chanting and waving your arms around it makes no difference.
I was just hoping there would be something defining this but I guess you can't cover every eventuality.
Sic
The party needs a wizard, ranger. I am thinking of taking one more level in wizard so that at 3rd I can get the cleric level and the arcane armor training.
Is there an optimazation guide for the MT?
If your GM will allow it take a look at the 3.5 feat Practiced Spellcaster. Raises your caster level for one class by 4 up to your HD (kind of like boon companion for your caster level.) Take it twice and save your trait for magical lineage.
That one is kind of super important so feel free to offer to bring soda for x number of sessions or buy pizza for the DM. There's no shame in a little bribing every now and then, lol.
DM does not want to mix resouces. Pathfinder material only allowed. Thanks for the advice though, Roachie. :)
Has anyone put together a guide to the MT?
No, but you can't do better than Cl/Wiz. Those classes get all the best spells. Spontaneous casters take longer to qualify. Spells are everything for an MT, and being able to select daily from both lists blows away any other considerations. Being able to scribe or use scrolls of either of them makes it awesome.
Your answer to everything should be casting a spell you either scribed, or selected from your cleric list or spellbook especially for today. Sure, nobody picks the perfect spells every time, but you have quite a few dailies, even if they're low-level compared to a single-classed player.
For cleric domains, look for spells that aren't ordinarily castable by clerics. Some include bard, druid, or paladin spells. Access is good.
As for wiz schools, yes, specialize. You want that extra slot, and Universalist sucks, period.
I wouldn't take conjuration. Summoning monsters is equally available to both classes, and doesn't need feats to work, so that won't be a problem. It's the source of teleportation, so don't make it opposed.
Transmutation is strong. Lots of utility there. Haste, flight, polymorphing, it's all good, and an extra slot of Haste will always get used.
Evocation is strong, too. In spite of much of the chatter here, blasts work, in my experience, not to mention that there are excellent non-blasts in that school, too, and no overlap with cleric, other than some domain spells.
Force is great, and works on ethereals, too. Hit them with your spiritual weapon while casting magic missile. Good times! You'll want Mage Armor (conj) and Shield (Abj), too, so prepare them or get wands until you have the slots to extend them with a feat.
Make your int and wis as high as you can. You want OK cha, and at least 12 in con. Take a race that gets a bonus in int or wis.
A 15 pt. elf can take 7/8/14/15/15/12, and end up with 7/10/12/17/15/12. If you get more than 15 points, put them in int or wis.
I say int, because you're hurting for skills, and wizards need good DCs and extra spells, because magic is all they've got. Clerics aren't as dependent on their DCs, since they usually cast most of their magic on allies.
I'd go on, but it's late.