...if it wasn't for the fact that we're playing a pnp rpg.
Four level five characters, including a wizard, alchemist, inquisitor and paladin.
So we were all raiding a particular dungeon when we got one-shotted in the most pathetic fashion I have ever experienced. It was not GM fiat or railroading or whatever. We simply got owned by a gaze attack with a ridiculous save.
Thankfully the owner of said gaze attack didn't kill us and opted instead to sell us out to some trolls. So we got dropped off at some nasty troll place (while unconscious), but managed by sheer tenacity to escape!
But, you ask, where's all your stuff?
Exactly...
The only good thing was that I chose to have a familiar rather than an arcane bond item so now I can at least cast acid-splash without having to roll concentration.
If our stuff is still in the first dungeon then we might be able to get it back, but if it's with the trolls there no way we can deal with them without magic. We know for certain that there are at least 3 of them because that's how many of them we've seen... And that's a low estimate.
So we're kinda screwed. Getting myself back to even the bare essentials is close to 1500 gp (we have a stash of 4000 at our hideout) as I need to cover Spiked Pit, Fireball, Haste, Scorching Ray, Glitterdust, Summon Monster 2 and at minimum a few level 1 spells and once that money is spent it can't be sold back... I mean scribed spells are wasted. It's not like a paladin/inquisitor who can buy stuff and sell it when it's no longer useful... >_>;
Buy a wand of something, and use that to get the rest of the stuff back.
Or, use the money to convince another wizard to let you copy his notes.
Buy a wand of something, and use that to get the rest of the stuff back.
Or, use the money to convince another wizard to let you copy his notes.
For 4,000 gold, a wand of what exactly? A wand of a 2nd level spell costs 4,500 and a 3rd level one costs 11,250 gold, though I guess you could look into a heavily used wand for a lower price. As for paying another Wizard to copy from his spell book, he might still be looking at a rather sizable cost. Plus his friends probably need to buy some basic gear as well (which is nowhere near his costs, but still).
As for the trolls, why can't you handle them without magic? The regeneration? If that's what's holding you back, investing in Acid Flasks (10 gold per, or 5 if you have time for your Alchemist to make them) might be something to consider, as acid also stops their regen. That plus your Pally and Inquisitor being the same minus a couple extra to hit and damage and your Alchemist with bombs plus you throwing down some acid, it could work.
Paladins can usually request help from a church or something with good results. Assuming that you can find a church that would help him. Otherwise, assuming no items have sentamental value, sounds like it's time to put a few profession skills to work for a while. Or invest in profession.
Well I guess the paladin part would be on the GM.
Your alchemist wouldn't happen to have a proper, disgustingly high Craft (alchemy) bonus and swift alchemy? If so, there's your ticket to ride.
It'll take time, but invest your nest egg into potion raw materials, alchemist brews into potions, group sells potions. Rinse, lather, repeat until back up to WBL.
Then go set some sunsabiatches on fire...
I call this.... AWESOME!!
Imagine the stories behind his? The drive you will have to get your stuff back? The joy when you take revenge?
Man, I would love to be a bard in that game :D
I am thinking you might look into acquiring a cheap Spell Book from another Wizard. Maybe Role-Play it as you visiting your Master or some such and acquiring an Apprentice's Spell Book.
A party without Rogue skills? So no sneak, little effective scouting and an inability to look around the Troll lair before you left. That is always the problem with lop-sided parties.
I would blow the 4000 on basic gear and a bunch of hirelings for an expedition against the trolls - to see how much of your stuff is there.
Then talk the GM into giving you a rogue NPC to help you scout.
Maybe ask about the 3.5 Cohort Feat? It is basically a Better Squire Feat. It is Leadership but only gives you the Cohort at a -3 instead of the -2 and can only be upgraded to full leadership at/after Level 10 and only if you have a high enough Leadership. You might try and convince the GM to let you take the Feat to earn a Rogue NPC Cohort to be your Scout.
A party without Rogue skills? So no sneak, little effective scouting and an inability to look around the Troll lair before you left. That is always the problem with lop-sided parties.
Inquisitor has Stealth and Perception as class skills plus the skill points to have them maxed; that's about all you need for scouting barring an occasional Disable Device (but they're looking in on trolls... unlikely they have a security system).
And Wizard could have Invisibility...
Why not scribe the spells you still have memorized into a spell book, and memorize them multiple times?
JohnB: We didn't have time for that while escaping. Ww were too busy dodging trolls (and I could only cast a few of my spells, one of them being expeditious retreat).
chaoseffect: Illusion is my prohibited school and besides, material components required, and I didn't have my pouch.
Troubleshooter: That's actually a good idea. I didn't have time to cast that many of my spells so a few of them should still be in memory: Spiked Pit, Fireball, Grease, Summon Monster 2, Summon Monster 1, Create Pit
A general observation: In my experience players take stealing their treasure far more personally that killing them. Strange lot.
Agreed. One time (I was a player) we lost our gear, but ended up with much nicer equipment after all was said and done. But most of the players could not get past their resentment of "He took away our stuff!"
Now (when I am GM), I rarely take away stuff. And always have a way they can get it back.
Unless of course the PC's are just stupid.
...if it wasn't for the fact that we're playing a pnp rpg.
Four level five characters, including a wizard, alchemist, inquisitor and paladin.
So we were all raiding a particular dungeon when we got one-shotted in the most pathetic fashion I have ever experienced. It was not GM fiat or railroading or whatever. We simply got owned by a gaze attack with a ridiculous save.
Thankfully the owner of said gaze attack didn't kill us and opted instead to sell us out to some trolls. So we got dropped off at some nasty troll place (while unconscious), but managed by sheer tenacity to escape!
But, you ask, where's all your stuff?
Exactly...
The only good thing was that I chose to have a familiar rather than an arcane bond item so now I can at least cast acid-splash without having to roll concentration.
If our stuff is still in the first dungeon then we might be able to get it back, but if it's with the trolls there no way we can deal with them without magic. We know for certain that there are at least 3 of them because that's how many of them we've seen... And that's a low estimate.
So we're kinda screwed. Getting myself back to even the bare essentials is close to 1500 gp (we have a stash of 4000 at our hideout) as I need to cover Spiked Pit, Fireball, Haste, Scorching Ray, Glitterdust, Summon Monster 2 and at minimum a few level 1 spells and once that money is spent it can't be sold back... I mean scribed spells are wasted. It's not like a paladin/inquisitor who can buy stuff and sell it when it's no longer useful... >_>;
Firstly, just buy a spellbook and go to a town with a sufficiently high spellcaster to learn new spells. The equipment section details spellcasting levels in towns, the magic chapter details the costs of learning spels from other casters, but for your convenience below is the cost of learning spells from another caster by level with the cost of scribing the spell into the book (and the page count) included.
Cantrip 7.5 gp (1/2 page)
1st 15 gp (1 page)
2nd 60 gp (2 pages)
3rd 135 gp (3 pages)
4th 240 gp (4 pages)
Purchase a blank spellbook (15 gp) and then hit up some towns with at least 3rd level spellcasting services (most any small city shall do, according to the equipment chapter). Then purchase only enough spells to get your other spellbook back. This means you may wish for a loadout something like this.
Cantrips Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Acid Splash, Light (30 gp)
1st Level Magic Missile, Charm Person, Silent Image (45 gp)
2nd Level Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray, Flaming Sphere, Knock, Invisibility (300 gp)
3rd Level Haste (135 gp)
Total Cost of Replacement Book 485 gp.
That should be enough to allow you to help your party recover your gear. Remember that creating copies of another spellbook cost 1/2 the amount of the spellbook. So if you want, you may wish to make a spare-spare spellbook (another 242.5 gp) just in case this spare gets stolen before you can recover your original.
The spells are pretty useful vs trolls (charm person affects trolls and if the troll fails the saving throw can result in both a potent ally and possibly just asking for your stuff to be returned). Otherwise, just gear up enough to fight the trolls as needed. Using only 485 gp worth of your party's 4,000 gp, that leaves 3,515 gp worth of stash money for the rest of your party to re-equip with. I'd recommend being as efficient as possible. Ignore magic items. Get masterwork goods (some decent armor for the paladin and inquisitor, some masterwork weapons, and perhaps some masterwork items to boost skills). Anything left over, put into brewing some potions/oils and scribing a few scrolls for buffing the party, and perhaps an alchemical weapon or two (but your alchemist should have that mostly covered).
At 5th level, your Paladin and Inquisitor should be capable of more or less two-manning your average troll with the support of you and the alchemist. In routine encounters (1 troll) you can just conserve your spells by spamming acid splash on the troll to keep its regeneration shut down. Alternatively, spells like flaming sphere are easy to use from behind your allies where it is safer.
EDIT: I wasn't aware illusion was a banned school (d'oh, you never ban this school man, never! :P). In that case, replace silent image with something like enlarge person.
Buy some mundane armor and weapons for your paladin and inquisitor... Reach weapons. Buy a portable alchemist lab and ranged weapon for your alchemist, and that should leave you the majority of your 4g. Buy a replacement spell book as suggested above, and go for it... Spam acid splash to negate the regen, and take them down one at a time. Invest in a CLW wand and some potions.
Ashiel: That was long and helpful :D
Acid Arrow was a good suggestion.
I failed my roll to learn Flaming Sphere a few sessions ago so it's not an option until I level up.
My banned schools are necromancy and illusion. I looked over and settled for getting rid of illusion because, well, it's kinda common and I wanted to try something new and necromancy is boring.
Ashiel: That was long and helpful :D
Acid Arrow was a good suggestion.
I failed my roll to learn Flaming Sphere a few sessions ago so it's not an option until I level up.
Remember that Taking 10 is your friend in most cases. Learning level-appropriate spells should very rarely result in you failing to successfully. The DC is 15 + spell level. I'm not sure what your Intelligence looks like, but in general you should have little trouble (also remember that your familiar shares skill ranks with you and can use aid-another).
My banned schools are necromancy and illusion. I looked over and settled for getting rid of illusion because, well, it's kinda common and I wanted to try something new and necromancy is boring.
Fair enough. Illusion is a powerful school though. It offers spells such as mirror image, blur, displacement, invisibility, mislead, simulacrum, etc.
Worst situation ever. Game over.
I failed my roll to learn Flaming Sphere a few sessions ago so it's not an option until I level up.
Also, you may wish to check the magic chapter again. You only need wait 1 week before re-attempting to learn the spell. Not until your next level. That means if it has been a week since the last time you tried to learn your spell then you can try again.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until one week has passed. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
I failed my roll to learn Flaming Sphere a few sessions ago so it's not an option until I level up.Also, you may wish to check the magic chapter again. You only need wait 1 week before re-attempting to learn the spell. Not until your next level. That means if it has been a week since the last time you tried to learn your spell then you can try again.
If the check fails, the wizard cannot understand or copy the spell. He cannot attempt to learn or copy that spell again until one week has passed. If the spell was from a scroll, a failed Spellcraft check does not cause the spell to vanish.
zomg!
That must have been changed from the first printing of the CRB! I remember reading that part very carefully. Even the GM looked it over himself.
Tim Statler: We had a witch before, who would be capable of some necromantic stuff.
...Ghoul Touch (touched loses levels) ...
Ghoul touch is paralyzed not level loss.
... My banned schools are necromancy and illusion...
Opposition schools aren't banned, it just takes 2 slots to prepare them and a -4 on checks to craft with them. But if you really need/want the spell, you can still use it.
... necromancy is boring.
GAAHHH!!! Slay the heritic!
Necromancy isn't boring. Ok, things going boom are the most exciting, but necromancy is a close second! Making your opponent blind, deaf, paralyzed, weakened, poisoned, and stupid (I really didn't like that guy). How can that be boring?
To GM had monster that onwed the Party? but did not kill them but they down there loot to the toon of 2-4K gp each.
Raise Dead
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 5
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 5,000 gp)
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature.
Then it needs two casting of this
Restoration
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 4, paladin 4
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, M (diamond dust worth 100 gp or 1,000 gp, see text)
So that 7K each to Restart not to bad compaired to 2-4K you said you need. Tell your GM thank you for leting live for only 1/2 or 1/3 the true cost of your failure to live.
In kingmaker I have died 5 time costing My party 30K to get me back. Trust me I hear it every weak. Go check the trap or take watch you own the party.
... My banned schools are necromancy and illusion...Opposition schools aren't banned, it just takes 2 slots to prepare them and a -4 on checks to craft with them. But if you really need/want the spell, you can still use it.
... necromancy is boring.GAAHHH!!! Slay the heritic!
Necromancy isn't boring. Ok, things going boom are the most exciting, but necromancy is a close second! Making your opponent blind, deaf, paralyzed, weakened, poisoned, and stupid (I really didn't like that guy). How can that be boring?
I think you misunderstand me. Boring is relative. In my opinion it is the most boring of the schools, but I had reasons for not prohibiting the other schools. I saw spells I needed from all of them. In retrospect, I'd probably switch out enchantment for something else, but I want enhantment later for dominate monster and dominate person.
To GM had monster that onwed the Party? but did not kill them but they down there loot to the toon of 2-4K gp each.
Raise Dead
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 5
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, M (diamond worth 5,000 gp)
You restore life to a deceased creature. You can raise a creature that has been dead for no longer than 1 day per caster level. In addition, the subject's soul must be free and willing to return. If the subject's soul is not willing to return, the spell does not work; therefore, a subject that wants to return receives no saving throw.
Coming back from the dead is an ordeal. The subject of the spell gains two permanent negative levels when it is raised, just as if it had been hit by an energy-draining creature.Then it needs two casting of this
Restoration
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 4, paladin 4
Casting Time 1 minute
Components V, S, M (diamond dust worth 100 gp or 1,000 gp, see text)So that 7K each to Restart not to bad compaired to 2-4K you said you need. Tell your GM thank you for leting live for only 1/2 or 1/3 the true cost of your failure to live.
In kingmaker I have died 5 time costing My party 30K to get me back. Trust me I hear it every weak. Go check the trap or take watch you own the party.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
I realize that living and losing your stuff is better than dying, the problem is that some classes are really hit harder than others by losing their stuff. Being a wizard without a spellbook...
... I had reasons for not prohibiting the other schools. I saw spells I needed from all of them. In retrospect, I'd probably switch out enchantment for something else, but I want enhantment later for dominate monster and dominate person. ...
You still sound like you are saying you can not take spells from your opposition schools. That is not true. They are not banned or prohibited in PF. It just takes 2 slots to prepare them. Or a higher skill check to make magic items with them. If you decide that you really want invisibility today to make sure you can sneak in with the rogue, you CAN prepare it.
... I think you misunderstand me. Boring is relative. In my opinion it is the most boring of the schools ...
Yes, that was a mostly tongue in check joking around. I thought the GAAHH!!! Slay the heritic! made that clear.
I often don't take necromancy just cause I want something else more. And a lot of people don't take it because it seems icky or evil. But it did surprise me to read boring. I don't think I've ever heard anyone call that school boring.
But it is actually fairly often chosen as an opposition school. Or even Universalist wizards who don't take necromancy spells for whatever reason.
I think this whole situation is kinda cool. Good work by your GM, the new situation is probably something most of you haven't had to think your way through before. And look at all the great suggestions from the posters above! Go Paizo Community!
Good luck! When you've smashed those trolls you'll all be like high fivin' and shit :)
I agree, good job by your DM. It makes feats like Spell Mastery worth it.
Though getting back at the trolls is very doable with a 4,000 gold stash it seems unlikely that the trolls will have your valuable equipment, they might however have some knowledge that might help you get back your gear and possibly some treasure of their own to 'share' with the party.
Losing gear at a low level is usually just a minor setback, don't freak out you will get better gear even if you do not get it back.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
I realize that living and losing your stuff is better than dying, the problem is that some classes are really hit harder than others by losing their stuff. Being a wizard without a spellbook...
Point I was and am try to make is all about GP. With death and starting over it 7k gp to get you PC back as they where before you died.
You said as wizard to get your gear back up to par it will take between 2-4k gp. So you not in the hole 7k gp but only 2-4k gp that in my book is 5k to 3k gift to the PC form your GM.How long where you with out your gear?
How many fight was it or times you played?
I betting not that many that many 3 to 5 fights or 1 or 2 times you played till you got up to speed.
In the big picture this bump in road a minor set back. Deal with it. Pick your self up dust your character sheet off and keep roll dice.
So your GM challlenged you and you failed. K np What did you learn for next time?
I sit at table with 5-8 PC as GM each and evey week with players with minum of 25 years of roll/role play experience and some with as many 35 years. 5 of them are have master degrees in engineering (bio-chemical, nuclear, computer, Mechanical, Metalolgy/and mathematics) and my wife how has degree in Biolgy. Point is all realy smart folks. I try each and every week to challeng them so it not the same thing every time(huge hard task). Most of this group has been together for allmost 15 years. It hard some days. Your GM took a TPK and turn it in to one or two night worth material for your group. That challenged you so much that you had to get on the internet tell the whole word....Golf clap and tip my hat to your GM on a JOB WELL DONE!!! My good man. Well done in deed.
So finsh the story did you make it out?
Did you get regeared up?
Did you have change your morle code as PC to get retooled? ie Rob/Steal?
Did you go back and get revenge agianst the troll with wierd gaze attack that sold you in to slavery?
This is a great no SH@T there we where story that you will tell for gaming ages to come. Be happy with it. It sucks in the hear and now but long term it will be great builder for you as a gamer. To think out sidebox, to be ready for what if, And I never knew that monent?
To quoted Kevin Smithquote=Someone said] what a buck of win
That game was.
How long where you with out your gear?
How many fight was it or times you played?I betting not that many that many 3 to 5 fights or 1 or 2 times you played till you got up to speed.
It's been one session so far. We're unlikely to get it back next time either, and if we're really lucky, the loot is with the person who one-shotted us.
I suspect it's going to be easier to get it back from there than if it were with the trolls DESPITE the ridiculous ability this creature has.
In the big picture this bump in road a minor set back. Deal with it. Pick your self up dust your character sheet off and keep roll dice.
So your GM challlenged you and you failed. K np What did you learn for next time?
To be honest the GM was quite skeptical of this overpowered creature too. It's from an adventure path and I'm being intentionally vague in order to prevent spoilers.
But let's just say it's something that forces everyone in range to roll a dc 20-22 will save to avoid being dazed and everything indicates the daze has a non-standard duration.
So finsh the story did you make it out?
Did you get regeared up?
Did you have change your morle code as PC to get retooled? ie Rob/Steal?
Did you go back and get revenge agianst the troll with wierd gaze attack that sold...
No we haven't gotten anything back because our loot is in one of two places:
1: With the trolls2: With the instant-own creature.
It's a bit of a catch-22. In order to get our loot back we kinda feel like we need our loot back.
Can you point it out in ** spoiler omitted **
To be honest the GM was quite skeptical of this overpowered creature too. It's from an adventure path and I'm being intentionally vague in order to prevent spoilers.
Absolutely.
Spoilers ahead, yo.
Uhh... It turns out one of the players is tired of this character and his recent questionable behavior has an explanation. He's trying to kill his character so that he can make a new one... Not exactly good timing for such antics.
Anyway. We have gotten back to our hideout and I have about 1200 gp I can burn on stuff if necessary. We had some old unsold and unused loot.
I suspect I'll get these spells:
Cantrips: Detect Magic, Light, Acid Splash (3*15)
Level 1: Magic Missile, Silent Image, Protection from Evil (3*60)
Level 2: Acid Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Invisibility, Glitterdust (3*135)
Level 3: Haste, Aqueous Orb (2*240)
1110 gp
I suspect that Aqueous Orb can be useful against that gaze attack creature to disrupt it from moving. We are going to strike at it first, then we will focus on the trolls if our loot is not where we look first.
Uhh... It turns out one of the players is tired of this character and his recent questionable behavior has an explanation. He's trying to kill his character so that he can make a new one... Not exactly good timing for such antics.
Anyway. We have gotten back to our hideout and I have about 1200 gp I can burn on stuff if necessary. We had some old unsold and unused loot.
I suspect I'll get these spells:
Cantrips: Detect Magic, Light, Acid Splash (3*15)
Level 1: Magic Missile, Silent Image, Protection from Evil (3*60)
Level 2: Acid Arrow, Flaming Sphere, Invisibility, Glitterdust (3*135)
Level 3: Haste, Aqueous Orb (2*240)1110 gp
I suspect that Aqueous Orb can be useful against that gaze attack creature to disrupt it from moving. We are going to strike at it first, then we will focus on the trolls if our loot is not where we look first.
You may want to drop/swap Flaming shere for this Create Pit. That spell pluss Aqueous Orb Wreak havoc on my game all time. We call it the toilet tatic. Vs large or smaller oppent that can not fly...Round cast create pit(some Verison)on bad guy. If they fail they fall in the hole
PC win. If the save then round 2 cast Aqueous orb on bad guy and move them in hole. If Save secound time then use ord to keep trying in round 3 or more till you catch them and put them in the hole. Then kill them at you leisure casue it then like shotting fish in a barrel. Target at your level will take 2d6 each round in orb +2 2d6 falling. It will need to make Reflex save at -2 due to being entangled form the orb then make climd check DC 30 (25 base for the spell +5 for Surface is slippery for being wet form the orb. If the taget get out the catch them with the orb again and move them back down in to the pit.
You may want to drop/swap Flaming shere for this Create Pit. That spell pluss Aqueous Orb Wreak havoc on my game all time. We call it the toilet tatic. Vs large or smaller oppent that can not fly...Round cast create pit(some Verison)on bad guy. If they fail they fall in the hole
PC win. If the save then round 2 cast Aqueous orb on bad guy and move them in hole. If Save secound time then use ord to keep trying in round 3 or more till you catch them and put them in the hole. Then kill them at you leisure casue it then like shotting fish in a barrel. Target at your level will take 2d6 each round in orb +2 2d6 falling. It will need to make Reflex save at -2 due to being entangled form the orb then make climd check DC 30 (25 base for the spell +5 for Surface is slippery for being wet form the orb. If the taget get out the catch them with the orb again and move them back down in to the pit.
Good idea.
I originally thought of the aqueous orb because I suspect that the weakness of the creature that defeated us is related to its ability to move. If that is correct then the aqueous orb should put a few obstacles in its' way to do so.
A fraction of our loot has been returned.
I spent some time buying some some spells back and the GM was being extremely generous in a particular encounter against someone holding some of our stuff. I suspect he nerfed our opponent a bit.
It was actually our inquisitor's greatsword (he's a fighter/inquisitor) and we got hold of our paladin's axe. Armour and other stuff is probably further inside still, though...
Our loot has been recovered in its entirety. Now it's time to go kill some trolls :D
So who had the loot? I'm guessing it wasn't the monster that killed you...
So who had the loot? I'm guessing it wasn't the monster that killed you...
It was... Actually.
It was a stupidly hard encounter when unprepared but it was doable with preparation.
Smoked goggles are useful when you know you are going up against a monster with a nasty gaze attack. The cost is cheap (10g) and the bonus is susbstantial (+8 on saves). There are penalties for wearing them, so you would only want to have them equipped when you know they are needed.