I am currently playing a wizard going on 7th level and having a look at the spell list and around the forum it seems that the general consensus is that beast form and wizard don't go together due to low BAB and HP.
Is this a fair assessment?
Are there any reasons anyone can think of that might make beast form a useful spell for a wizard to have?
Is there any build for a wizard which makes beast form a good spell to take?
Is it possible to build a wizard that can use beast form and not have the rest of the party scream "Oh crap he/she is using that useless spell again, well there goes all the buffs and control for this fight!"?
the reason i ask is that i wouldn't mind being able to break out a bit of blam in combat on occasion and polymorph used to be the go to spell for a bit of combat meatyness for the wizard in 3.5
thanks in advance
It's a utility spell, not a combat spell.
It's versatile, and allows for a variety of effects, as needed. Turn into a dog, and track by scent, or into a bird, and scout something out from the air.
If you build with an eye for melee, I'm sure it could be done pretty effectively.
Let's say you've got a level 11 wizard who just got access to Beast Shape IV. A few things nicely in budget of WBL: Belt of Physical Perfection +2, Bracers of Armor +4, Amulet of Mighty Fists +2. Total cost of those is 48000 gold or, if the wizard takes Craft Wondrous, 24000 gold, out of the expected 82000 WBL.
Assuming a fairly nice starting Strength, like 15 or so, and 1 level increase for a +3 modifier.
Then, Beast Shape IV. So, how's about a Girallon?
40 foot land and climb speed, 10 foot reach. Standard AC will drop by 2 thanks to the Large size and -2 Dex, but you'll gain +6 in natural armor, along with +11 hit points from a Con increase. You can still Shield yourself for a +4 and haste yourself (and allies!) for another +1 and to add an additional attack to your routine.
As for that routine... 5 BAB + 6 Str (getting a +3 modifier from the spell in addition to the original +3 modifier) + 2 Enhancement from Amulet and let's figure the haste is on for +1, in addition to the extra attack. That would make a full attack routine of... +14/+14/+14/+14/+14/+14, at a level where even CR creatures have about 25 AC, meaning you'd likely hit on about half of those. Maybe not as likely to hit as a Full BAB class on any given attack, but the quantity sure does help.
Of course, being unable to cast while in Beast Shape might be annoying. Eschew materials would be a great feat to pick up, along with Silent or Still spell (possibly both, but a few things you turn into probably can still gesture, so just Silent might do), and you can prepare spells you think you might want in beast form with those metamagics.
Or, simply get all your casting out of the way first. Toss some buffs on your allies and yourself, a few control spells at the enemies, and then Beast Shape to keep from running through too many spells for the day, finishing the rest of the combat with melee.
It may not be optimal, but I certainly wouldn't call it all that bad.
Edit: Just realized, this is off from a couple things (though it balances out). The attack routine would be -1 from size, but +1 from that belt (which I forgot to factor in). Which would even out to the same thing, but yeah, not added up entirely correctly.
Edit 2: Now, if you want to use some lower level beast shapes, you can get Beast Shape I at level 5. At that point, we're a lot more limited in items, so instead we'll go with more normal stuff. Suppose we still have a 16 strength, but none of that other stuff.
For medium animals, Cats have great potential, so let's go with a Leopard.
Sadly, we can't get pounce from Beast Shape I, though we can once we get up to II (as well as the Grab ability). In the meantime however, we'll only have the standard fare: Bite and 2 Claws, along with a +2 Natural armor bonus above the norm. No Dex or size penalty for a medium creature.
Though we can't pounce, it's still a pretty nice full attack. 2 BAB + 4 Strength (1 from Beast Shape) means a +6 to hit. Not that great, but the average AC for equivalent CR creatures is 18, so it's close to a half chance, and we have 3 natural attacks to go with, so +6/+6/+6.
Not terribly impressive, but this is with no gear at all. And compared to an equivalent full BAB class that doesn't even have their first iterative, it could be worse. And next level, when they do, the wizard at least is not taking a -5 penalty on any of the attacks.
Also i think haste only grants an extra attack for weapon attacks, its my understanding that natural/secondary attacks are unaffected.
the rest seems rather solid though, and as you say attack bonus may be a little low but quantity helps out (im not a big enough math geek to figure it out exactly but i imagine it comes close...ish)
When making a full attack action, a hasted creature may make one extra attack with one natural or manufactured weapon.
:)
ahh errata curses foiled again! I will get you one day errata!
i was going with what was in my book lol, this is very nice to know as it means when i pop summons i can haste them and bam! mwhahaha
Beast shape forms are going to prevent a wizard from casting spells for the rest of the combat, since you can't speak, or access your material components while under the effects of a polymorph that turns you into an animal.
Basically, the beastshape spells are 100 times better for a Druid, who gets the extremely powerful wild shape class feature. A single feat gets rid of both of the above limitations, it lasts hours per level instead of minutes, so you can use it before combat, the quantity of uses grows with level, as does the power of the shapes you can take, and you never have to prepare them in a spell slot. Heck, they even get the appropriate wild shape a level earlier than a wizard, not to mention having a d8 hit die instead of d6, 3/4 BAB instead of 1/2, and 2 good saves instead of only one.
Basically, the reason beastshape isn't good for a wizard is because wild shape is 10 times better for a Druid.
Well, it's true Druids can obviously do it better. But if you have a wizard, it's still got its benefits, and you can certainly be playing one for other reasons.
Also, if you really need to go back to casting, the spell is dismissible, and you can use stilled or silent spells (not terribly appealing compared to Natural Spell of course, but they are options).
Honestly, I'd find 17 Strength at level 1 rather unnecessary, even for a wizard who was aiming to make large use of Beast Shape or similar melee stuff. Though if done with a racial, I guess it's not as bad.
Still, I'd rather be sure the spellcasting is feasible. At least a 16 Int after racials, with a 15 Strength or so if you want to make a lot of use of polymorph battle-mode. The thing is, if you really want to just do the melee, you'd be better off going Druid or some Full BAB martial class.
I'd see it as more the reason for being a wizard would be to still have access to their spell list. Being able to beast shape and go into melee is just a nice option you can do, provided you don't burn the bridge with a Strength dump. It's at least not impossible though, even if you don't build all the way for it (hence why my analysis featured relatively low strength and no Transmutation School enhancement... though it did have some gear for it, I suppose).
Edit: Blagh, ninja. Though I suppose this response is appropriate for both Rory and Lazar.
beast shape and company are good for eldritch knights moreso that wizards. giant shape is even better for the melee-inclined arcanist.
Beast shape is a great spell, even if you don't use it in combat. Use it to change into a cheeta and escape the TPK, or turn into a dolphin or crocodile and avoid drowning. It has already been mentioned that they are very useful for small forms getting into tight places. Also don't underestimate the camouflage aspect. I turn into a tiny bird. This gives a massive size bonus to stealth (I think it's +8, might be higher), and you can go pretty much anywhere w/o raising suspicion. No tower guard is going to think twice about the thrush that is sitting on the battlements. Even a bird alighting on a window sill listening in on the Evil Generals plans to attack the king's convoy.
Really infinite shapes equals infinite versatility. Now is it the best combat spell? no, but is it great for many other things, you bet.
yeah the thought was more so to just give a wizard some way to jump in and mix it up when appropriate (ie easy fight so no need to waste many many spells, fight with lots of little baddies etc), i would still be looking to go full caster.
I have a little extra wiggle room in this campaign as the GM has given us a 30 point stat buy to make up for less magic items during game (dont get me started on that topic though, not a fair trade imo lol), and i have a bit of a chance to restat my character, so for stats i was thinking
Human Wizard 7
str - 16 (15 starting +1 at lvl 4)
dex - 16
con - 10 [14 with belt gain in game]
int - 20 (18 starting +2 human bonus)
wis - 10
cha - 7
Specialty school Conjuration (teleportation)
feats
Spell focus (conj)
Greater spell focus (conj)
Augment summoning
Superior summoning
extend spell (from wizard)
combat casting
traits
Focused mind
Reactionary
I think with that stat block and beast shape i could maybe make myself useful in combat when needed, im not going to steal the barbarian's thunder nor would i want to but i can at least help out.
I suppose the real question is, is it worth not casting a summon monster? and im thinking more and more that the answer is no, as the duration is now 10 rounds on a summon which is basically an entire fight anyway and all the summons are most likely going to out fight my efforts and add all there other benefits (battlefield control, meat shields etc).
thoughts on the build and improvements/variations?
also side topic question whats the best thing for a wizard to be doing in combat while not casting spells as i find its not always necessary/appropriate to cast every round as i would cap out my spell list way to quick and be useless for the rest of the day and/or the fight doesn't require it as it is in the mop up stages and an extra stinking cloud isn't going to help things?
thanks for all the responses guys!
Summons have their uses the same as beast shape et al. If nothing else while they're around they can provide flanking buddies, block lines of movement (or at least make a direct approach to your squishiness more difficult) and in certain cases they make short-lived scouts and self-propelled campfires.
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and in certain cases they make short-lived scouts and self-propelled campfires.
lmao, i know you probably are refering to fire elementals but i cant get the image out of my head of summoning a lion and then lighting it on fire for some reason......there may be something wrong with me.
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Note that you can use Beast Shape on your familiar. Which has the side effect of increasing the familiar's size enough to have Reach 5ft so that it can deliver touch attacks without suffering an AoO.
But if you want to shapechange as a wizard, I recommend Elemental Body instead, since it doesn't interfere with spellcasting. And the bonuses are pretty good.
Actually I refer to Elemental Body 1 as "Advanced Fly" since it also gives me better maneuverability, Darkvision and a significant AC increase.
Actually I refer to Elemental Body 1 as "Advanced Fly" since it also gives me better maneuverability, Darkvision and a significant AC increase.
I hadn't even considered that spell but a quick read does make it look very tempting as something to have a little fun with on occasion, i do summon a lot of elementals (earth mainly as even the small packs a whallop) so it might be fun to summon up some little buddies and then mix myself in with them, a very effective mirror image for fights where the bad guys are gunna gun for the casters
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Elemental Body 1 is an excellent spell for wizards. Each of the four forms offers something useful, and the whole package makes for one nicely flexible preparation:
Air: good AC, darkvision, fly speed with +8 to the Fly skill for perfect maneuverability.
Earth: better AC, darkvision, and earth glide
Fire: good AC, darkvision, fire resistance
Water: good AC, darkvision, water breathing