At what point do you make the players start making ride checks to control their mounts if the mounts are not combat trained?
When would you declare them in battle?
Can a bow wielding character trot up to within 30ft of a melee stop the mount and plink arrows into combat from the stationary mounts back without having to make a check?
How about a gunslinger letting off a shot from the back of a stationary mount from 20ft away?
I would say if you've rolled initiative and are tracking rounds and taking turns to perform actions, you're in battle. Start making ride checks. Even if a horseback archer is 500 ft. away and wants to get closer. If you rolled initiative to act, you're in the fight, make a Ride check even if it's only to get closer.
Since it comes up so rarely, I just decide if the horse decides there's a danger. It's rarely ambiguous. In the example above, let's say you rolled initiative for some reason, say to track rnd/level buffs, and want to ride close to enemy that doesn't even know you're there. No one's shooting at each other or anything, horse doesn't care. As soon as arrows, spells, loud noises, etc. start happening you have to start making those DC 20 checks or dismount. I also usually let players dismount before making a check, otherwise you're stuck on a fleeing horse. Some DMs might think that's more fun/realistic.
I totally agree about going into rounds to keep things flowing and keep track, so I guess the question should be, When does a horse think it's in danger?
Although trained for riding not combat, it would be used to some loud noises, busy bustling places, fire and smoke at a farriers for example.
After much discussion with my GM, we decided that "in battle" would mean within 30ft as the horses scent abilities would work without having to worry about upwind and downwind modifiers, and for the sake of simplcity he decides if any shooting/throwing/spell casting would put the horse "in battle" which currently means bows and crossbows are fine, firearms are not, spells could go either way.
Thanks for the input, much appreciated.
I can see two ideas that might work.
1) Whenever the horse is threatened. As a mount, it is used to people and animals being close to it while it is mounted. As it is domesticated, it will have a harder time understanding threats. A person walking up to it will be normal. It will not know if it is friend or foe until very late.
2) Whenever an unknown person/creature is within its single move action (speed). This takes into account the idea that the horse knows how fast it can go and when to bolt. This would also allow for different distances based on how fast the mount perceives a distance can be covered.
Otherwise, you would just have to rule that anything in initiative would have to count.
YMMV
When not in battle: "Let's go horse, giddyup. Haha, stubborn horse... ah there we go."
Elapsed time before horse moves: 12 seconds, no big deal.
In battle: "Go horse, go! Yah! Yah! For Pete's sake, Move! Yah!"
Elapsed time before horse moves: 12 seconds, big deal.
Whether there's danger or not, 12 seconds outside of battle is no big deal. You don't need an instant response from your mount. In battle, that same 12 seconds is 2 rounds and is a big deal. When there's enemies about or off in the distance and you need that instant response from your mount, I'd say you need a Ride check, even if your mount doesn't know what the heck is going on.
In battle, that same 12 seconds is 2 rounds and is a big deal. When there's enemies about or off in the distance and you need that instant response from your mount, I'd say you need a Ride check, even if your mount doesn't know what the heck is going on.
Those 2 rounds could be life or death, in or out of battle, but that is not the topic under discussion.
Currently you would only need a ride check if "in battle" or under the specific circumstances of the Ride skill, as you say "your mount doesn't know what the heck is going on". The horse only starts acting up "in battle" as it's spooked or frightened.
Thanks for your response.
Smell of blood. Loud noises. Possibly bright flashes of light.
Exactly what myself and my gm discussed with the horse scent idea for the 30ft "in battle" zone.
We also included fire effects, creature smell and the lack of sound or sight as possible triggers as well.
He used it the other day as we unknowingly approached an animal den, the horses started to get skittish, so he declared "in battle" which made the encounter a lot more tense.