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Let's see.. with Ol' Painless (+1 distance) I'm touching out to 80 ft, I do 1d12 instead of 1d8/1d6 (depending on flavor/size of pistol) and when and if I use my musket as a pistol whipping thumper (which I've done TWICE in seven levels) 1d10 bludgeoning versus 1d6/1d4 with a pistol.
Musket Master's rapid reload is helpful, like has been pointed out, reloading it as a 1 handed firearm @ 3rd level. Add in the things I can do with Alchemist (Grenadier) and I can be truly nasty in a distance fight. @5th level you add your dex to your damage and reduce your misfire by 1, add in 'Reliable' and you're @ 0 with powder/bullet or 1 with paper cartridges.
Add in other feats like Far Shot, the ability to spend grit to extend your range and I can hit (as a touch) up to 240' with 2 grit (for those really fast/distance bad guys)
Thomas GRaham,
You did an excellent job of making your case. Thank you so much for directly answering my question! Your comments were very helpful. I will seriously look at choosing a musket instead of pistols.
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Not if it's Mithral =)Or Darkwood (which is cheaper, is it not?)Bucklers are metal, so only mithral would do it.
You could do it with a light or heavy darkwood shield, but those take up a hand and then you could not use 2-handed weapons.
That's funny... I never noticed that.
Well, I stand corrected, sir.
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Denada.
I have seen Pistoleers get in their perks too. My problem is with feat economy it is almost IMPOSSIBLE to get really good with a pistol and blade. That being said 'up close and deadly' is a neat trick and if you like cheese there are some truly epic multi-pistol shot monsters to be heard about.
Last night we did Shadows Last Stand and for a bit I was the only who could consistently hit the foes in our first encounter.
A lot of gunslingers go for the hail of lead method. I went with the grenadiers method of infusing stuff. I wish someone would give an answer on the reason 2h firearms are the only weapon excluded from Explosive missile but I've given up on a reply for that or why double barrel musket range is continued to be boned.
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Okay, the reduced price is half the cost of the bullets and powder? Apologies, I do not have my books, and I got caught in a mental rut about this....LOLPlease see the note on the Gunsmithing feat in the Ultimate Combat section of Additional Resources:
The following two feats function differently in Pathfinder Society Organized Play than they do in regular games: Gunsmithing does not grant the ability to craft firearms, ammunition, or black powder. Rather, it allows the purchase of bullets, pellets, black powder, and alchemical cartridges (with 1 rank in Craft [alchemy]) at the listed reduced price, but does not grant a discount on the purchase of any firearm.You pay half price for alchemical cartridges, and 10% of the price for everything else. Firearms are not discounted.
Edit: Also, I would highly recommend a *minimum* of 16 DEX. Dex is both your to hit and your damage (at later levels). You may also sometimes see your acrobatics skill getting a workout.
+1 to this, since you never get anything above light armor.
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Not if it's Mithral =)Or Darkwood (which is cheaper, is it not?)Bucklers are metal, so only mithral would do it.
You could do it with a light or heavy darkwood shield, but those take up a hand and then you could not use 2-handed weapons.
That's funny... I never noticed that.
Well, I stand corrected, sir.
You can get Darkwood Bucklers. Its a "specific magic shield" that costs 203 GP (core rules 467, also in Ultimate equipment), which means in PFS you can get on when you have 5 fame, or spend 2PA to get any item for 750gp. My gunslinger spent 2PA on a Living Steel Chain Shirt until he has enough for his mithral kikko.
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Not if it's Mithral =)Or Darkwood (which is cheaper, is it not?)Bucklers are metal, so only mithral would do it.
You could do it with a light or heavy darkwood shield, but those take up a hand and then you could not use 2-handed weapons.
That's funny... I never noticed that.
Well, I stand corrected, sir.
You can get Darkwood Bucklers. Its a "specific magic shield" that costs 203 GP (core rules 467, also in Ultimate equipment), which means in PFS you can get on when you have 5 fame, or spend 2PA to get any item for 750gp. My gunslinger spent 2PA on a Living Steel Chain Shirt until he has enough for his mithral kikko.
Except that the darkwood buckler is a poorly named light shield, not a buckler.
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Not if it's Mithral =)Or Darkwood (which is cheaper, is it not?)Bucklers are metal, so only mithral would do it.
You could do it with a light or heavy darkwood shield, but those take up a hand and then you could not use 2-handed weapons.
That's funny... I never noticed that.
Well, I stand corrected, sir.
You can get Darkwood Bucklers. Its a "specific magic shield" that costs 203 GP (core rules 467, also in Ultimate equipment), which means in PFS you can get on when you have 5 fame, or spend 2PA to get any item for 750gp. My gunslinger spent 2PA on a Living Steel Chain Shirt until he has enough for his mithral kikko.
Don't see how.. given that Living Steel isn't allowed in PFS. Did you mean another type of material?
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Except that the darkwood buckler is a poorly named light shield, not a buckler.Not if it's Mithral =)Or Darkwood (which is cheaper, is it not?)Bucklers are metal, so only mithral would do it.
You could do it with a light or heavy darkwood shield, but those take up a hand and then you could not use 2-handed weapons.
That's funny... I never noticed that.
Well, I stand corrected, sir.
You can get Darkwood Bucklers. Its a "specific magic shield" that costs 203 GP (core rules 467, also in Ultimate equipment), which means in PFS you can get on when you have 5 fame, or spend 2PA to get any item for 750gp. My gunslinger spent 2PA on a Living Steel Chain Shirt until he has enough for his mithral kikko.
Is there an official ruling on this, because I don't see how the text description overrides the name description anymore than the text description of a gladius being a short sword overrides the fact that it would require a seperate weapon proficiency to use if you didn't have martial weaponry training.
Haven't met anyone, my own characters included, that has bought magic ammo.
Plenty of special material ammo, and a lot have Clustered Shots.
-j
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Haven't met anyone, my own characters included, that has bought magic ammo.
Plenty of special material ammo, and a lot have Clustered Shots.
-j
Yeah. I got LOTS of special material. Wish you could get Ghost salted ammo regularly but other than that I got most of my bases covered.
It would be nice to get a few shots of 'holy' or 'Bane' ammo like crossbows and bows get in various chronicles.
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Just speculation, but I think Thomas was referring to ghost salted alchemical paper cartridges, rather than ghost salted bullets.Wish you could get Ghost salted ammo regularly but other than that I got most of my bases covered.My Gunslinger just bought some. Is it not allowed?
Yup. Should have been clearer. I can blanch some bullets but I'd like some I didn't have to prepare ahead of time.
Hmm..technically an Alchemist COULD blanch some bullets then make them into paper rounds.
Yeah, it's arguable whether or not you can have a weapon blanch done to the bullet part of an alchemical cartridge.
I for one don't see, if you're already having a merchant put special bullets in, why the bullets can't be blanched beforehand?
I went ahead and bought some. If a GM wants to disallow it, I just won't use them in that game.
-j
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I can blanch some bullets but I'd like some I didn't have to prepare ahead of time.Since blanches carry over from scenarios, I just made a set of 10. No real "preparation" needed outside of that.
Rather have paper cartridges than bullets. Might have to buy and make a few anyway. Though the number of incorporeal critters I've seen (so far) is none.
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Hey BigNorseWolf, Are there any restrictions on the Eastern Armors? Shouldn't there be due to supply and availability? I know of no such restriction, but it seems there should be! LOLPS (I am not complaining there isn't btw!)
Nope. The pathfinder society works out of absolom, and the east and west have been in contact for a long while. So in absolom walking into the tien district and getting decked out in kiko armor is just as easy as going into the dwarf quarter and getting yourself the regular old plate armor.
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Nope. The pathfinder society works out of Absalom, and the east and west have been in contact for a long while. So in Absalom walking into the Tien district and getting decked out in kiko armor is just as easy as going into the dwarf quarter and getting yourself the regular old plate armor.
Hey BigNorseWolf, Are there any restrictions on the Eastern Armors? Shouldn't there be due to supply and availability? I know of no such restriction, but it seems there should be! LOL
CRAPOLA!! (Sorry for the strong language!) I just bought armor, now I am going to have to look through Eastern Armor! Somehow the idea of a Gunslinger in Japanese Armor is suddenly really appealing!
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Is there an official ruling on this, because I don't see how the text description overrides the name description anymore than the text description of a gladius being a short sword overrides the fact that it would require a seperate weapon proficiency to use if you didn't have martial weaponry training.
What do you mean about that? Is there a specific ruling somewhere?
The listing on Gladius is pretty specific that it counts as a Short Sword for all feats... and it was my understanding that the weapon proficiencies from a class were the feat listed.
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Except that the darkwood buckler is a poorly named light shield, not a buckler.Not if it's Mithral =)Or Darkwood (which is cheaper, is it not?)Bucklers are metal, so only mithral would do it.
You could do it with a light or heavy darkwood shield, but those take up a hand and then you could not use 2-handed weapons.
That's funny... I never noticed that.
Well, I stand corrected, sir.
You can get Darkwood Bucklers. Its a "specific magic shield" that costs 203 GP (core rules 467, also in Ultimate equipment), which means in PFS you can get on when you have 5 fame, or spend 2PA to get any item for 750gp. My gunslinger spent 2PA on a Living Steel Chain Shirt until he has enough for his mithral kikko.
I know this is an old threat, but wouldn't a normal Masterwork Buckler be enough to avoid ACP or is it becuase of the reduced weight you go with Mithral ?
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wouldn't a normal Masterwork Buckler be enough to avoid ACPYou're right; it does. My gunslinger has one.
As does mine.
Not that it gets a lot of use, but it is handy when needed. Haven't quite gotten around to getting it enchanted, but that is in the plans. Starting to realize that my AC20 isn't gonna be enough now that I'm level 7 (2 of those levels are Inquisitor).Planning on the following: Ring of Protection, Amulet of Natural Armor, and perhaps others.
Though, I have to remember that I was planning on getting sights for Vera, now that she is a Reliable Musket.
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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Indeed. Mithril Kikko armor has three drawbacks:
- Arcane spell failure: 10% (ignored by bard and magus, overcome by Arcane Armor Training)
- The fact that it's armor at all (for monks)
- It costs 4,030gp
If those aren't enough to chase you off, it's the best light armor around.
It costs 4,180g. Mithral has to be masterwork, which costs 150g.
The masterwork cost is included in the price of the mithral. 4,030gp is the correct price.
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RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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Add in other feats like Far Shot, the ability to spend grit to extend your range and I can hit (as a touch) up to 240' with 2 grit (for those really fast/distance bad guys)
Just wanted to clarify that Far Shot doesn't increase your range increment, it just decreases the range increment penalty from -2 to -1 per increment.
A friend of mine just created a Gunslinger and I was telling him the suggestions in this thread.
We did debate on the need for starting with a 16 Dex. We both understand it’s his primary stat, but he isn’t playing a race that gives a bonus to Dex and doesn’t want to dump a stat so he can have a Dex of 16. It’s 15 right now and he plans on bumping it at 4th level.
How important is it to have a 16 Dex at 1st level?
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Honestly, I think a lot of the advice in this thread can safely be taken with a grain of salt. For example, my gunslinger/paladin does not have Precise Shot and has only once missed a shot due to the -4 penalty of firing into melee. She is level 5. Her Dex is 14, though she has only one level of gunslinger and won't be getting the ability to add Dex to damage.
He only gets one feat, but we did talk about taking Point Blank Shot at first level.
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I made a gunslinger immediately after Ultimate Combat came out and took Extra Grit as my first feat. Huge mistake.
I didn't end up using it till about level 7 or 8, where I rolled many many many unlucky rolls in a single encounter causing constant misfires when I could fire more than once per round.
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Not really that bad, in my mind.
By 5th level, Munny, my musket master had:
MM1: Rapid Reload (Musket)
1 : Point Blank Shot
H : Precise Shot
3 : Extra Grit
5 : Rapid Shot
At 6th level, he became an Inquisitor, and took Alertness as his 7th level feat. That's where he is now... He hasn't had too hard of a time hitting, at any time during his career. that's the effect of the Touch AC.
Last adventure he was really using his extra grit... to push his attacks out to the second range band for touch AC, due to targeting flyers. Pissed off those harpies, it did. BLAM! SQUAWK!!!
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Hi all,
I had a question about firearms, and this seemed as good a place as any to ask it. I know this may seem like a no brainer but I was wondering if the characteristic of firearms that they resolve attacks against touch AC in the first range increment still applied to constructs, or other creatures with no vitals. I looked through the FAQ and didn't see anything, and I searched "firearm golem", and only this thread came up.
Again, it may be that I'm being naive, but it would seem like piercing armor plating to wound the flesh underneath is a lot different than shooting something that is completely made of stone, iron, whatever.
If the rule applies as normal, then gunslingers would be exceptional construct hunters, especially when taking deadly aim.
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Hi all,
I had a question about firearms, and this seemed as good a place as any to ask it. I know this may seem like a no brainer but I was wondering if the characteristic of firearms that they resolve attacks against touch AC in the first range increment still applied to constructs, or other creatures with no vitals. I looked through the FAQ and didn't see anything, and I searched "firearm golem", and only this thread came up.
Again, it may be that I'm being naive, but it would seem like piercing armor plating to wound the flesh underneath is a lot different than shooting something that is completely made of stone, iron, whatever.
If the rule applies as normal, then gunslingers would be exceptional construct hunters, especially when taking deadly aim.
This is probably better asked in the Rules Forum as its own thread, but here goes anyway.
There are no special exceptions for constructs, undead, oozes, plants, elementals, dragons, etc. within the firearm rules regarding touch attacks. Likewise, there are no special exceptions within those creature types regarding touch attacks. Therefore, the answer to your question is, "Yes, firearms resolve attacks against the touch AC in the first range increment against creatures of those types."
With regards to your last statement, you are correct, gunslingers make excellent ___________ hunters, especially when taking deadly aim.
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Except if people actually read Deadly Aim, the bonus damage does not apply to Touch attacks, which if you are in the first range increment as a gunslinger you will be doing. I have seen and had to correct quite a few gunslingers over that point recently..
If the rule applies as normal, then gunslingers would be exceptional construct hunters, especially when taking deadly aim.
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2mvzh?Deadly-Aim-and-Firearms
Early Firearms: When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target's touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.
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Except if people actually read Deadly Aim, the bonus damage does not apply to Touch attacks, which if you are in the first range increment as a gunslinger you will be doing. I have seen and had to correct quite a few gunslingers over that point recently..
If the rule applies as normal, then gunslingers would be exceptional construct hunters, especially when taking deadly aim.
Firearms are treated as ranged touch attacks only in the sense of resolving them against Touch AC. They are, for all other intents and purposes, normal attacks. As such, Deadly Aim still works for them.
Also, the following is provided by Paizo concerning Firearms:
When firing an early firearm, the attack resolves against the target's touch AC when the target is within the first range increment of the weapon, but this type of attack is not considered a touch attack for the purposes of feats and abilities such as Deadly Aim. At higher range increments, the attack resolves normally, including taking the normal cumulative –2 penalty for each full range increment. Unlike other projectile weapons, early firearms have a maximum range of five range increments.
