I couldn't speak as to the actual legality, but my GM for Jade Regent had got the local copy place to print out pretty much the whole AP after bringing them a printout of his digital receipt. This may or may not be standard practice, I just know what worked for us. Hope that's helpful.
As for needing any of the setting books to run things, I find this not to be the case with the Paizo APs so far. They can help you to flesh out things a bit further if you want to, but in the two APs we're playing right now - Kingmaker and Jade Regent - we haven't found them to be necessary at all. The APs provide you with more than enough information to actually run the adventure, and add some flavor besides, though you admittedly have to wing it just a bit if your players have some more in-depth questions about religions or cultures and the like. I should admit that, as a player, I felt compelled to do extra research into my character's goddess (Desna, goddess of travel and dreams, whee!), and so picked up Faiths of Purity, but it wasn't necessary at all, and none of us have the Inner Sea World Guide, or really know much about Golarion at all. Typically, I've found that if you do require more info for some reason, you can find it with very little work on the SRD or Pathfinder wiki.
We're only on the third installment of both APs, but we are having a great time with them so far. There's a lot more detail and flavor then I've come to expect from premade modules, and a wide variety of options for going a bit offtrack from the story laid out for you. You do have to watch out just a bit for the new mechanics that are introduced in both of these; for Kingmaker, the kingdom building rules are occasionally a little clunky and confusing, particularly if you deviate from the standards they've set out, and in Jade Regent, the caravan combat rules are just terrifyingly hard as written (also in Jade Regent are the Relationship values with core NPCs, which I've found to be very well fleshed out). That being said, while both of these sets of things are challenging, they're also interesting, and a somewhat refreshing change from the norm.
I haven't had any experience with the Frog God stuff, so I can't help you out there, but I can say this: Our group is a wide mix of power gamers, harcore storytellers, experienced role players, and newbies, and we're all having a ball with these things. I would highly recommend at least giving the Paizo APs a shot.
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You can print out one copy for personal use. It is part of the FAQ (top right corner of your page) Link . I have a laser printer and I got a spiral binder at the local office supply store. Get some clear covers and card backers as well. The starter packs are a good deal. They are much less bulky then three ring binders. It turns out to be very cheep and easy to use. I get a lot of my books PDF and just print a copy.
I just finished running the Kingmaker AP yesterday. It was 18 months of pure fun. There are a ton of reviews for all the AP's and each has it's own flavor. It would be hard to suggest one without knowing what your players like.
As far as the world and "cannon" it is your game run things the way you want them to be. Tell your players up front that is how it will be and be consistent.
I played a bit of Slumbering Tsar and I hated it. It's a nostalgia ride for sure, but it makes me glad I'm playing 3.5/PF and not 1st/2nd edition D&D. Play this if you want to make sure your players stop roleplaying since your character can die to random encounters at any given moment. But tastes differ, so for roleplay light or rollplay groups it might be a fantastic campaign.
There are some cool Pathfinder APs out there. You can always read the reviews on paizo.com and make a decision based on that plus what you can find on the forums about them. When I DM I use these books for inspiration and use elements from them to weave my own story. That way they can resemble an existing campaign/AP, sure, but they're clearly unique. It also helps with players who can't keep their filthy paws off the AP booklets. Sad as it is, you always got beatsticks who read a few pages when things get hard or when they find an item which they want to know everything about.
QFT!
However, if you are in for a little old scool, I would suggest Rise of the Runelords or Shattered Star if you in for a few Cthulhu vibes.
Sandboxy is Kingmaker all the way.
Else pick the one with the best theme (Big City, Pirates, Gothic Horror, the far East, Egypt, Elves) - it's all there.
Really the only AP I can not recommend is Council of Thieves, this one just didn't work for me.
First, welcome to pathfinder. Second there are ALOT of choices for adventures to run. I've run a fair bit of slumbering tsar and i have to say, I would love to PLAY in this adventure, but it is kind of painful to run. Mostly because of how open the first part in the desolation is.
But also because of frog god games' style of adventure writing. Its very much 'old school' and it is actually very easy to use, lays things out neatly for you and is a high quality product. But ive been spoiled by paizo in that the FGG adventures (at least with slumbering tsar) were PAINFUL to read. I remember back when i was young using smaller adventures of this style to run quick and easy games, but with such a large campaign, its just boring to go through tons of box text and ecounters laid out so neatly (in my opinion ofcourse). The narrative (but more challenging to use) style that paizo's Adventures tend to be are in my opinion more fun to just pick up and read, which helps alot with dming.
Keep in mind im not trying to put down slumbering tsar, I have the hardcover and i love it and am sad that i've sort of let that campaign fade in the face of others. But its a HUGE adventure, and it is written in a very utilitarian fashion. In terms of the style of the adventure, my group enjoyed the difficulty. They new about it going in and we took steps to account for it (like using a kind of hero points to prevent a few of the potential character deaths that can be prevalent in the adventure).
In terms of paizo adventures. You might want to check out the new module line starting with the dragons demand in a few months. They are oversized modules now, sort of like 1/3 to half an ap, and a little less investment then a whole ap to see if you like running them over something from fgg.
There is also the pathfinder APs, and there are lots of them. We have sort of a unique situation with the Rise of the Runelords Anniversary edition, which may be the most supported adventure of all time. It has a ton of support by paizo, had the benefit of a revision and updation after 5 years of commentary and errata, and has a massive fan base that has produced a ton of great stuff for it (check out the Rise of the runelords AP section of the forums for the community created stuff).
And yes you are allowed to print one copy for personal use of a pdf. I think its even in the liscence at the back, but definately in the faq as mentioned above.
Also, one good thing about paizo, is while they do have an established world, the vast majority of npcs and characters in their aps are unique to the adventure. Its not like some wizards products where well known characters show up all the time. And besides, if a player tells you you are running an NPC wrong indicate their character has just accidently contracted a rapidly deteriorating terminal illness and that they will have to make a new one (so go away for an hour and do that and think about your mistake).
My experience is basically the same as Viscount K's: most of the players and GMs in the games I play in are more interested in just playing a game of D&D (er, I mean Pathfinder) than they are in geeking out over the intricacies of the campaign world.
If you want to have some of this old school feeling, i suggest the shattered star AP. Although i haven't played it or run it (i am considering running it) from what i hear it's a gather the artifact-dungeon crawling adventure.
My experience is basically the same as Viscount K's: most of the players and GMs in the games I play in are more interested in just playing a game of D&D (er, I mean Pathfinder) than they are in geeking out over the intricacies of the campaign world.
Actually, just as a note: A few of us (including me) totally are into geeking out over the campaign world. It's just that I'm usually doing so over the bits of it that are in front of me, which the APs have been doing a good job about keeping me informed of.
Unruly, I actually just ordered the Rise of the Runelords hardcover this morning. Eagerly awaiting its arrival.
We rolled into Slumbering Tsar after having done some other Paizo adventures. 25 point buy, 2 traits, and it was brutal. The setting itself is laughable (that starting village? really?) and once you go out exploring, you're wondering why the f&*@ you're even trying.
We ended up losing half the party thanks to a random encounter at night. The greater wraith (or whatever does the big time con drain) pretty much chewed through two characters in a heartbeat. Fun fun. We did a sidequest there, ended up in lower Osirion and all the players in unison agreed that we weren't going back, much to the dislike of the DM. Me and two players have played 2nd Edition AD&D before moving on to 3.0, the other players were newer.
I must say, if you change the starting village a bit, PLAN your encounters (including the random ones - roll beforehand, make sure they are not of the insta-gib kind) I guess it can be fun. But if you play it as it is written it's a waste of your players time.
IMO any adventure or campaign that sees characters as expendable, since the player can just make a new one, should end up in the fireplace.
I don't recommend Council of Thieves. It starts very weak. It does seem to get better later on, but of the three APs I'm currently in (Kingmaker, Curse of the Crimson Throne, and Council of Thieves) it's easily the weakest.
I'll second RotR, I played it as my first AP and it went down swimmingly.
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How much work will go into converting the AP to Pathfinder?
Only as much as you want. You can run with the stats as is and only have to add in CMB and CMD values. The difficulty of the encounters may be lower with Pathfinder characters, but it is entirely useable. You can also do a little searching through the archives and find fan conversions of the stat blocks if you want.
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I've run Council of Thieves, Kingmaker, Runelords, and I'm running the first Reign of Winter
I've played in Jade Regent and Carrion Crown
Do you want a theme? There is an AP for that.
(btw the opening for RoW has been incredibly fun)
Kingmaker was a blast to run, my players really bought into it.
Council of Thieves drags in parts but the Sixfold Trial was my all time favorite role playing experience.
Runelords is so easy to pick up and run. It is in the most heavily supported part of the setting and comes compiled in a single cheap volume. Not to mention the minis, or tokens, and other support.
My GM has killed 6 or 7 characters in a 6 player Carrion Crown.
Easiest Recommendation: Runelords.
I just picked up reign of winter, and if the first one will be like the rest it is shaping up nicely. It is the first pathfinder AP I've seen with potentially lethal traps in the 1st module (but by no means have I seen them all). It has some good old school feel to it, but has a zany twist to it (but what really stands out is number 5). At 4 hours a night you are probably looking at about 16 months to two years of play times from an AP. You sound about as lazy as me (i hate changing stats from 3 to pf), so I would recommend to myself in order:
Rise of the runelords hardcover
Shattered Star
Reign of Winter
Carrion Crown
Jade Regent (and this was the only one I didn't really have time for)
I would avoid (for paperwork/player driven action)
Kingmaker
Serpent's Skull
and skip the following 3.5 adventures
Second Darkness
Legacy of Fire
Council of Thieves
on the other hand, If you run them as written, you can run a 3.5 AP with 3.0 rules ok if you don't want to convert. If so I would suggest:
Curse of the Crimson Throne
I can't comment on shackled city, I've heard good things. I cracked open Rappan Athuk but decided it wasn't for me, just a little too brutal.
If you go looking, the product description of each module has user reviews.
I've played Serpent's Skull and run Carrion Crown, and I recommend both.
Serpent's Skull is a good one because with the exception of the extremely linear second book, it's pretty open ended and allows for a lot of player choice. It's essentially an officially released sandbox exploration AP.
Carrion Crown is challenging and fun, and has a lot of really nice atmosphere and neat enemies to throw at your party. It's a bit more linear (ESPECIALLY the second book, Trial of the Beast) but overall it's got an interesting plotline and fun encounters.
I have heard that Rappan Athuk is VERY good, though necessitates a speech to your players along the lines of "Have a stack of spares and don't get too attached to a character. Now let's begin...", I was thinking of picking it up myself to check out, at the very least for ideas to throw into a homebrew.
I couldn't get over the "you are in an Opera" part in order to run it. Good to hear it was fun.
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I couldn't get past the "You are in a sewer with random encounters for 4 hours" part at the very beginning.
Seems like one of those ideas that sounds a lot better on paper than it is in practice.
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Not sure 4 hours is all that much in a game that took well over a year of weekly 6 hour meets, and it is FAR from the most memorable part. You shouldn't judge based on just the first few pages.
And the opera was a stumbling point. It was clunky, but it was far from the most fun part of that particular book. It was also over in less than a night.
You guys should seriously give that AP another chance.
EDIT: For sum effect, you've given up on an AP for around roughly 2% of its total time if I count you both. :P
4 hours is enough for the players to go "we're bored, this one sucks" and ignore my pleas of "it gets better eventually, I promise!" =/
The problem is more that it's almost literally the FIRST THING that happens, so it's done nothing to catch the players' attention in that first five minutes.
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Shackled City is a great AP. There are beholders in it, but I think they are all statted in the book. I don't think there are any other non-OGL monsters in there which are not statted in the book.
Rise of the Runelords is a fantastic AP. I am playing in it right now, and I love it. I like Shattered Star a little more (I am running that one), but it is sort of a sequel to Rise of the Runelords, so I would run them in order.
I wouldn't worry about being too familiar with the campaign setting, especially if your players aren't very familiar either. Especially if you run Rise of the Runelords, since that AP was written at the same time the campaign setting was written, so it assumes NO familiarity at all. It is also a great way to become familiar with the setting.
If you do decide to go with a Paizo AP, check out the fanzine Wayfinder, which you can download for free from this site. They have great supplementary articles and short side treks you can put into some of the APs. Also look at the web supplements.
Good luck.
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4 hours is enough for the players to go "we're bored, this one sucks" and ignore my pleas of "it gets better eventually, I promise!" =/
The problem is more that it's almost literally the FIRST THING that happens, so it's done nothing to catch the players' attention in that first five minutes.
Then fix it, because the other 98% is totally worth it.
I might give it another shot after we're done with Carrion Crown.
Then again, I was kinda planning on doing my own homebrew urban campaign at that point.
I would disagree with "16 months to finish an AP". It really varies! I've heard of people taking three years, and I've heard of other groups that have burned through an AP in less than six months.
A single module is supposed to take ~~30 hours of play for an average group. If you play once a week for 4 hours, you and your players are reasonably experienced and can move things along, and you stick with the plotline and don't do sidetreks, then a single module should take around 8 sessions or a bit under two months. Other hand, if you have the sort of group that can spend two hours arguing over whether to torture a particular NPC or not ("torture is evil!" "no it's not!") then yes -- it can take longer.
Doug M.
Hold on a second. There are games that don't get sidetracked? Since when?!
=P
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Shackled City took my group about two years. Roughly biweekly, with 6-hour sessions.
If you are looking for something a little shorter, track down a copy of Red Hand of Doom. It is levels 5 to 10, so you'll need to find something else for the first five levels. It is a really fun adventure, written by James Jacobs. You might be able to pair it with the Pathfinder module that comes out in May, which is level 1 through 6.
Carrion Crown is pretty fun, but we're stumbling along some in Trial of the Beast. The first half of it was fun, but the second half has just been a slog. We've spent the last 7 or so sessions on it. @_@
Trial of the Beast, is, IMO the most poorly paced of the lot.
The Trial itself is interesting and passes pretty quickly...then what comes after just flies out of left field and it turns into a weirdly convoluted dungeon crawl.
Broken Moon is looking nice though, can't wait to hit that one in a session or two.
Wow, about a year and a half to two years for an AP? I was expecting maybe a year or so.
My Crimson Throne group plays roughly every two weeks (sometimes a bit less than that), we've played a couple of years (not sure how long; I think we started around the time my kid was born, and he's almost 4 now; we certainly started before another couple's kid was born, and she's at least 3 now), and now we're level 9 and just past the half way point, I think.
I admit we play everything out in a lot of detail.
Then fix it, because the other 98% is totally worth it.4 hours is enough for the players to go "we're bored, this one sucks" and ignore my pleas of "it gets better eventually, I promise!" =/
The problem is more that it's almost literally the FIRST THING that happens, so it's done nothing to catch the players' attention in that first five minutes.
Fortunately part way through that session, my GM realized that the sewer part was stupid, and just gave us an exit and enough XP to reach level 2. I normally love sewers, but this one apparently didn't have an exit until we'd killed enough chasing guards to reach level 2. The first few fights were fine; fun even, but it quickly got tedious.
We basically skipped quickly through the first part quickly treating everything as simple missions with not a lot of roleplay (and some of those missions were reasonably fun, though not brilliant). The Sixfold Trial was a bit odd and felt a bit railroady, but was definitely unique in a way. It mostly sucked for the player with the non-speaking part. In the dungeon afterward, the campaign finally seemed to come together and we now have the feeling we're working towards some goal. We play once every month, and in about half a year we reached level 4.
That's a very different speed than my Crimson Throne group gets, and I do think lack of fun and cohesion is part of the reason to increase the speed. Although it's also very different GMs and very different groups.
4 hours is enough for the players to go "we're bored, this one sucks" and ignore my pleas of "it gets better eventually, I promise!" =/
The problem is more that it's almost literally the FIRST THING that happens, so it's done nothing to catch the players' attention in that first five minutes.
You see, when I played this, I never realised that these were random encounters. The DM had them prepped and ready to rock, and just blended them in.
I'll agree, you can run an AP in six months of gaming, 1 session a week, or it can take two years if your group gets sidetracked a lot, or is a large group.