i was talking with my wife the other day about products we'd like to see from paizo. the two we'd most like to see are boxed adventure sets. something akin to the beginner's box with all the maps pawns and booklets you need for a full adventure. one of my favorite old adventures was dragon mountain (which i believe actually had something similar to pawns in it) and we'd love to see something like that. i'd easily pay $40-$60 for one, depending on length.
the other thing we'd like to see is one on one challenges. remember the old fighter's challenge, thieve's challenge etc? we'd love to see something like that, an adventure for a dm and a single player. it is often just the two of us and it's hard to scale regular adventures down for a single player.
thoughts?
|
From what I remember there is very little chance of boxed sets as to make actual profit off of them is prohibitively expensive. IIRC, one of the causes of the fall of TSR was all of the box sets they produced. I believe, to make a profit, the cost per box would be more like $100+. This is based on the memory of various interviews and panels I have watched/read.
I like the idea of the boxed adventure but I imagine they can be relatively cost prohibitive. I think if they did put one out, the ideal scope of the product would be to highlight a relatively small region, provide the maps for the base town, poster maps for a few key encounter areas in miniature scale, a character creation guide, the adventure booklet(s) and the pawns for key NPCs and unique monsters - going on the assumption the DM already has the bestiary pawns, etc. for the base monsters. The adventure should serve to raise the PCs a few levels at most and for an active gaming group (play every week or two) probably last about 4-6 months. To some extent, the existing adventure paths and their related accessories already provide this but having a quick single box to grab is nice.
I like the one-on-one adventures as well. They probably should include notes on how to scale them up to a standard party or handling the sole PC having some lackeys/minions/hirelings with them. An idea on this front - what about a single book setup with chapters each of which is a one-on-one adventure for a different target character class, the design of which is to bring a party together at the end since the adventures are interrelated.
From what I remember there is very little chance of boxed sets as to make actual profit off of them is prohibitively expensive. IIRC, one of the causes of the fall of TSR was all of the box sets they produced. I believe, to make a profit, the cost per box would be more like $100+. This is based on the memory of various interviews and panels I have watched/read.
sadness.
i presume paizo took a hit on the beginners box with the expectation it would draw new players? that was a real quality product, and the price was very reasonable.
I like the idea of the boxed adventure but I imagine they can be relatively cost prohibitive. I think if they did put one out, the ideal scope of the product would be to highlight a relatively small region, provide the maps for the base town, poster maps for a few key encounter areas in miniature scale, a character creation guide, the adventure booklet(s) and the pawns for key NPCs and unique monsters - going on the assumption the DM already has the bestiary pawns, etc. for the base monsters. The adventure should serve to raise the PCs a few levels at most and for an active gaming group (play every week or two) probably last about 4-6 months. To some extent, the existing adventure paths and their related accessories already provide this but having a quick single box to grab is nice.
I like the one-on-one adventures as well. They probably should include notes on how to scale them up to a standard party or handling the sole PC having some lackeys/minions/hirelings with them. An idea on this front - what about a single book setup with chapters each of which is a one-on-one adventure for a different target character class, the design of which is to bring a party together at the end since the adventures are interrelated.
i'm trying to figure out why a boxed set would be so expensive. let's say an adventure the length of one part of an adventure path ~ $20 (although ideally it would have a small player guide as well). an adventure of that size would need fewer pawns, but still production cost would probably be about the same as an ap pawn set so ~ $15. 1 - 3 double sided poster maps (no real need for the heavy cardstock maps) ~ $10. the box itself ~ $5 should more than cover it. $50 bucks seems reasonable, comparable to other products they put out. i think it would just be a question of it they could move enough units. oh well, i'm sure there is something i'm missing from the equation.
as for the one on on adventures, i was just thinking of that because it would be nice to have something pre-written for when it is just the wife and i (which is often) or when a friend comes over to visit and i want to introduce them to pf. i generally have to scale down adventures a bit anyway since my group is only my wife, another couple and myself.
i'm trying to figure out why a boxed set would be so expensive. let's say an adventure the length of one part of an adventure path ~ $20 (although ideally it would have a small player guide as well). an adventure of that size would need fewer pawns, but still production cost would probably be about the same as an ap pawn set so ~ $15. 1 - 3 double sided poster maps (no real need for the heavy cardstock maps) ~ $10. the box itself ~ $5 should more than cover it. $50 bucks seems reasonable, comparable to other products they put out. i think it would just be a question of it they could move enough units. oh well, i'm sure there is something i'm missing from the equation.
I don't think it's really the cost of the individual components. I think the issue is that bundling a bunch of stuff together just isn't as profitable as selling the same stuff separately. There's the costs of paying someone to put all of the pieces together, and there are the (potential) lost sales from people who only want to buy part of the bundle.
That's not to say it's can't be done, if you don't particularly care about profit. For instance, there's the Castle Whiterock boxed set.
Paizo does offer enough stuff that you can do this yourself.
For example, pick up Rise of the Runelords, plus some flip mats and a box or two of minis. You're good to go for at least a year.
|
I would like to see something like this at least once a year. Perhaps not at the price point or level as an AP but a 96 page adventure with maps and pawns all boxed up in a yearly special. I think it would be nice for those people, including myself, to have an adventure in a box that is all inclusive.
I think the issue is that bundling a bunch of stuff together just isn't as profitable as selling the same stuff separately. There's the costs of paying someone to put all of the pieces together, and there are the (potential) lost sales from people who only want to buy part of the bundle.
There's also considerations like extra shipping - not only does it substantially increase the volume (even if the weight increase is negligible) companies who make books aren't the same companies which make boxes. Meaning there's an additional shipping step (with the extra delay that involves) where the books and other components get shipped to the box maker for assembly, before getting shipped again to the publisher.
From what I remember there is very little chance of boxed sets as to make actual profit off of them is prohibitively expensive. IIRC, one of the causes of the fall of TSR was all of the box sets they produced. I believe, to make a profit, the cost per box would be more like $100+. This is based on the memory of various interviews and panels I have watched/read.sadness.
i presume paizo took a hit on the beginners box with the expectation it would draw new players? that was a real quality product, and the price was very reasonable.
It wouldn't surprise me if that was produced at a loss. It was excellent value, so hopefully it will be possible as the odd one-off item. (An absolom boxed set is my hope - 64 pages just wasn't enough, IMO).
I've been running the Night Below boxed set for a while. In terms of cost, consider the contents of this set:
-3 adventure booklets of 64 pages each.
-6 large poster maps, double-sided and in full color.
-An 8-page monster booklet
-8 double-sided DM reference cards in full cover and with glossy fronts.
-16 pages of player handouts
The price of the boxed set, I believe, was $30. That's $10 more than what the Player's Handbook sold for. Page count is pretty similar, but the maps and extras, not to mention the cost to assemble the box and put everything in place, probably put the cost higher than the Player's Handbook to create. And Night Below sold much less than the Player's Handbook, so it couldn't be ordered in as high a number.
That's not even mentioning that Paizo's standards of quality are much higher than mid-90s TSR's. While the Night Below set seemed great in the 1990s, if Paizo were to put out something of similar quality it would be a disappointment.
In terms of the Class Challenge books, though, you might want to try the one on one adventures by Expeditious Retreat Press. They're designed with one player of a particular class in mind and have been converted over to Pathfinder.
There's also considerations like extra shipping - not only does it substantially increase the volume (even if the weight increase is negligible) companies who make books aren't the same companies which make boxes.
Not to mention that there are foreign markets that classify a boxed set as a "toy" instead of as a "book" for tax or shipping purposes; I think that was a bit of an issue with the Beginner's Box.
In terms of the Class Challenge books, though, you might want to try the one on one adventures by Expeditious Retreat Press. They're designed with one player of a particular class in mind and have been converted over to Pathfinder.
thanks, i will check those out.
Paizo does offer enough stuff that you can do this yourself.
For example, pick up Rise of the Runelords, plus some flip mats and a box or two of minis. You're good to go for at least a year.
yeah, i hear what you're saying, but there is just something great about having everything in one set. i absolutely love the fact that they put out the pawn sets for the adventure paths now. i do wish the map sets for them were all the actual grid maps you'd need for the adventures, though. i would happily pay whatever they wanted to charge to get them all and sized properly for minis.
i think this may just me pining for the "good old days" and the excitement of unboxing those big boxed sets tsr put out. i actually felt a bit of that old excitement when i picked up the beginner box on a whim (you know, just to see what these new-fangled pawns were all about) and was going through it.oh well, guess wotc is banking on that nostalgia with the $150 od&d boxed set they are putting out this fall. i say i'm going to resist now, but i know as soon as i get one of those in hand, i'm not going to be able to put it down.
oh well, guess wotc is banking on that nostalgia with the $150 od&d boxed set they are putting out this fall.
Note that Paizo issued a super-deluxe boxed version of the Rise of the Runelords hardcover too, so WotC isn't the only one getting in on the fun!
|
|
i presume paizo took a hit on the beginners box with the expectation it would draw new players? that was a real quality product, and the price was very reasonable.
If the messageboards are any indication of how the Beginner Box has been received, then the payoff for Paizo is in the products they sell aa a result of the BB.
I know it has helped me introduce new players to the game and led me to more purchases of regular Pathfinder materials. :)
Note that Paizo issued a super-deluxe boxed version of the Rise of the Runelords hardcover too, so WotC isn't the only one getting in on the fun!
i saw that. it looks pretty awesome, to say the least. paizo accidentally sent me the hardcover rise of the runelords instead of the rotrl map pack and told me keep it when i asked if i should return it (and then sent me the map pack; i love you paizo!), so i'm not sure i want to drop $200 on a book i already have (not to mention that my wife would kill me).