I'll put the TL;DR up front - I am looking for general and campaign specific advice (no spoilers please) on how best to deal with solo play, as well as build tips and advice. Build details and ideas are below.
On to the meat:
First off, we are using Gestalt rules, and I'm playing a Bladebound Hexcrafter Magus / Synthesist Summoner. We will probably use occasional NPC assistance as support characters, but it would be nice to be as self sufficient as possible.
We would like to avoid GMPCs and I dont want to play more than one character simultaneously. We will be using both the campaign's harrow point system as well as the hero point system, so hopefully that will give me a few get out of jail free cards. Even so, we are aware that the GM may need to step in occasionally with some deus ex machina to save me if all else fails. Thats okay, but we dont want to make a habbit of that.
I'd like to make it as easy on the GM as possible, so he doesn't have to constantly modify everything. In that vein, I need to be as versatile and survivable as possible while still being combat capable. I dont need to be 100% combat optimized, but being solo I am also not worried about being "too powerful" either.
Now, obviously, my biggest hurdle will be failing a single save has the potential to get me killed, so I need ways to be immune to status effects, I need good saves, and I need ways to remove status effects/ability drain. I also need to be able to take a beating and have generally good normal (AC/miss chance) defenses as well.
Here's my build generalities...please tell me what you think, and what I may have overlooked.
1) Magus gets me a bit of action economy advantage via spell combat, as well as good burst damage (at least after a few levels). Im using the standard scimitar and shocking grasp, but I am sticking to a strength build, not dervish dance. This allows me to take advantage of the eidolon's large boosts to Str later on via the Large evolution.
2) Synthesist gets me great defenses and a temp HP buffer, and access to all the eidolon's evolutions and senses. I lose the action economy advantage of a normal summoner, but I cant afford to be squishy and synthesist remedies that. Plus the flavor fits exceptionally well for my character (no need o get into that though). Biped base form.
3) Bladebound is predominantly for flavor, but is important in that regard. Even so, it makes sure my weapon is always going to be top notch. Its energy substitution combined with the ability to further enhance it via arcane pool should go a long way towards getting around DR. I'll also carry a morningstar to cope with DR (bludgeoning or piercing), which i can enhance with arcane pool as needed.
4) Hexcrafter is a flavor fit as well, and is not vital. Delaying Spell Recall so long is unfortunate (but remember i have more spells than normal due to summoner spells, and can use them with spell combat at level 6+ with the Broad Study Arcana so spell recall isnt quite so indespensible as normal...plus it frees up pool points for other uses), in return, gaining access to curses and Hexes is a pretty big deal, especially at later levels (11+). For early levels, it gets me access to the Flight hex (i could fly via evolutions, but this saves points and lets me fly when big E isn't summoned...which is when I am most vulnerable), which is pretty awesome, and gets me access to brand,, ill omen, bestow curse, and a few other really nice spell options. At mid levels the retribution and agony greater hexes really stand out. At high levels, Summon Spirit is great, and a perfect thematic fit, but chances are we will not reach those levels. Other early level hexes like evil eye, misfortune, etc. are also on the table, but not curently included in my build.
5) I am a half elf, so I will be using the +1 evo point per 4 levels FCB. Being immune to sleep is pretty great for a summoner as well. Finally, when I get access to the Paragon Surge spell, I will effectively have access to any feat or summoner spell i need but dont have. In particular, by taking Extra Arcana, I will also have access to any magis arcana OR witch hex I need, provided i spend a round casting the spell for access to it. IMO thats where the real advantage of Hexcrafter is going to kick in. Along the same lines, evolution surge will give me access to whatever evolution i may need at the time.
6) "Rogue" evolutions include Skilled (perception, stealth, disable device, and diplomacy). At 10+ I will likely use Aspect to have diplomacy and perception available even when big E isn't around. Before then, I'm just going to have to deal with average face skills (since summoning my big E suit for a diplomacy boost in town is likely going to do more harm than good in such an insular setting). I am just going to have to rely on dispel magic or just bypassing magical traps since i wont be able to disable those in the normal fashion. I'm also going to grab the Shadow Meld evolution to have concealment in all but bright light, so that should really help my stealth ability and my ability to dictate the terms of many fights. It also dovetails very nicely with Moonlight Stalker; since I will virtually always have concealment, it will be easy to trigger the +2 to attack and damage very regularly. Offense and defense in one.
7) Other important evolutions: Undead Appearance for good bonuses (and ultimitely immunity) vs. various nasty status effects. Large for generally powerful combat modifiers and reach (doubt i get huge, but will have enlarge/reduce person on hand in the event size changes are desirable). Extra Arms to use my scimitar two handed with spell combat and power attack, while maintaining a free hand (for SC) and also having an extra hand for metamagic rod usage and utility. I am not trying to stack tons of natural attacks onto spellcombat, just make my normal attacks better. Improved NA (of course) whenever I have free points available. At later levels, I will also likely be getting Blindsense/Lifesense, DR, and SR. Stuff like immunity, skilled (whatever i don't have but need), and channel resistnace will be left to evolution surge.
8). Important Feats, Hexes, and Arcana. I already mentioned Flight, Retribution/Agony (likely one or the other), Summon Spitit, and Broad Study (vital). I will also be getting.Accurate Strike (or maybe arcane accuracy) for on demand accuracy boost. At later levels I am also looking at Bane Blade and Quickened Magic (to quicken higher level spells). Preffered Spell and ultimitely Spell Perfection to combo with my Magical Lineaged shocking grasp, as well as Empower, and Quicken Spell for On demand burst allowing me to memorize utility to expand versatility.
9). Spell combat plus stuff like bladed dash, force hook charge, etc, gets me very good mobility and pounce like ability. I could also use these tactics to escape sticky situations.
TL;DR (part 2) - So...I will have really good defenses between synthesist shell and stuff like mirror image with spell combat. I have good saves (well not reflex so much, though I will have Evasion). i will get resistances to status effects and later on some immunities (disease, poison, stun, fatigue, exhastion, and paralysis. i will start immune to sleep and with boniuses vs. enchantments. I'll have virtually constant concealment, which will help my stealth ability and also trigger Moonlight Stalker for an offensive boost. I'll have pretty unlimited situational options via evolution surge and paragon surge. I'll have good skills and can disable traps. I'll have great mobility between the flight hex and spells. I will be able to self heal via rejuvenate eidolon and wands of infernal healing for after combat. No ability to channel positive energy, but i will have disrupt undead to at least be able to hurt stuff early on.
Anything I am missing or could improve upon? Any creative ideas for ability usage? Any must have items I should be gunning for? Thanks for the help!
Yeah, I would practically insist on Paladin for Carrion Crown.
Paladin & Master Summoner in theory be a good combo for a SOLO adventurer, but I am unsure of action economy. As a GM of the Carrion Crown, even with lowering some of the encounters, the AP can have nasty encounters on the off-occasion.
First, thank you for the responses/advice!
Paladin is definitely a very strong option. I DO realize that, and had considered it. If my current character just can't cut it or if he dies, I may indeed re-roll Paladin or rebuild the Magus half of the character as a Paladin (after a raise dead/resurrection, he could have a new found faith/devotion or some such).
The way I've built and flavored the Synthesist/Eidolon, he could easily be transferred to any new character to maintain some verisimilitude. In a way, the eidolon is every bit as much of a main character as the Magus was before he fused to it (though of course they are now one being). As for Master Summoner, etc. I really hate playing pet classes. Although I realize the action economy advantage that would provide would be enormously valuable solo, its just not my cup of tea. I played a vanilla summoner a while back and hated it.
Ultimately while a Paladin/Synthesist is a great option and a very strong plan B, its just not what I would prefer to play, at least at first. I've been dying to play a Magus, so I built off a Hexcrafter build I had already made and went from there, so I'll be sticking with the two classes above...at least for now.
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If anyone could provide advice specifically within the context of playing a Magus/Synthesist, that would be much appreciated. Is there anything I can add to the build to make it better? Are there important spells, feats, tactics that I'm overlooking that are more important either in CC or for solo play in general?
Also, really any general advice and (spoiler free) pitfalls to watch out for in terms of solo play and Carrion Crown specifically would be appreciated, in addition to advice on the build itself. I have been following the other Carrion Crown build advice thread (about the bard character), and some other older threads about CC, and those have been very helpful, but if anyone had anything to add regarding trying it solo, that would be awesome.
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Really, I'll feel much better about this build when I reach mid levels. Level 4 will be a huge boost for me, both in terms of power and versatility, and levels 7-9 are pretty transformative as well. If I can make it to 12+, I think I'll be pretty hard to take down.
Surviving until then is really my chief concern. Early levels are always brutal, and solo its even worse.
Anyway, thanks again for reading and responding!
Really, I'll feel much better about this build when I reach mid levels. Level 4 will be a huge boost for me, both in terms of power and versatility, and levels 7-9 are pretty transformative as well. If I can make it to 12+, I think I'll be pretty hard to take down.
Really, I'll feel much better about this build when I reach mid levels. Level 4 will be a huge boost for me, both in terms of power and versatility, and levels 7-9 are pretty transformative as well. If I can make it to 12+, I think I'll be pretty hard to take down.** spoiler omitted **
Yes, this is a concern, although I will have disrupt undead. And I'm not above kiting with it when possible. Its not much, but something.
I've read plenty about parties who did not have access to channeling though, and they generally fared well. I will definitely also be buying a substantial amount of holy water.
Getting through normal DR and even dealing with insubstantial enemies doesn't concern me (much) due to at least beginning with a magic weapon via arcane pool. And my senses/perception are off the charts so finding invisible enemies (if there are any...in a haunted prison, I can only assume there will be) will not be as hard as it normally is for a low level character.
If there are enemies that simply cannot be directly targeted, that's where I'll have real issues. Channel energy, being a burst, doesn't worry about that, but other parties managed without channeling. Shouldn't I be able to as well?
Whatever you build, be sure to get a ring of sustenance as early as possible.
Seconded on Umbranus's recommendation. I was in a CC game last night, and someone made that exact observation. It would be an even bigger help for a solo adventure.
I advise you to not to skip the role play part of Harrowstone. Knowing what you're going to be facing is an advantage that you can't afford to miss. If you don't make all your knowledge rolls in the city it's okay. You'll get a second chance with a bonus later. That said, the one thing you DON'T want to do is 'charge boldly into the heart of darkness.'
Make sure you have an area of effect spell.
My biggest concern with a CC solo adventure is the fact that you're only one person. Books 1, 2, and 3 are all races against the clock. Book 2 is particularly brutal about that, and your GM is going to have to make some changes to make it doable. Our party had no choice but to split up for certain parts of book 2.
If you're really into role playing and investigating, Carrion Crown is the campaign for you. There are battles, and book 6 is incredibly combat focused, but the AP loses a lot of its flavor if you rush past the RP. Of course, most of the battles have the possibility of being a TPK, so it's not like the fights aren't exciting either...
Hopefully your GM will keep you 1-2 levels above the expected norm. That would be incredibly helpful.
Thanks! Those are great suggestions. Very much the type of advice I'm after.
Whatever you build, be sure to get a ring of sustenance as early as possible.
This really is a good idea. I hadn't yet even started thinking about magic items I'd like, and yeah I can certainly see the value of this particular one. Any cater likes to have one...any solo character had better have one...and since I can't sleep in my "power armor", I am pretty much going to need one. Thanks.
I advise you to not to skip the role play part of Harrowstone. Knowing what you're going to be facing is an advantage that you can't afford to miss. If you don't make all your knowledge rolls in the city it's okay. You'll get a second chance with a bonus later. That said, the one thing you DON'T want to do is 'charge boldly into the heart of darkness.'
Thanks. This character is very much a knowledge seeking, "know what I'm facing" type. He's pretty calculating and cautious. I'll try to control my "charge into the darkness" impulses ;-)
Make sure you have an area of effect spell.
Uh oh. Lol, I hope that doesn't mean what I'm pretty sure it means. Anyway, duly noted. Pretty sure burning hands is in my spellbook. I try to make it a general practice to keep an AoE on hand for my casters, although I could easily have overlooked that considering Magi have a fairly different playstyle than I'm used to, so I appreciate the reminder.
My biggest concern with a CC solo adventure is the fact that you're only one person. Books 1, 2, and 3 are all races against the clock. Book 2 is particularly brutal about that, and your GM is going to have to make some changes to make it doable. Our party had no choice but to split up for certain parts of book 2.
Hmm, I guess there's not much I can do to prepare for this. The GM may indeed need to change some stuff. We'll see. We may enlist NPCs to help out on minor side missions if we need to. I like having NPCs and even GMPCs around, I just dislike playing more than one character simultaneously, as does the GM, and we'd prefer to minimize their roles in direct combat participation. Nothing wrong with having them behind the scenes doing something though. Might even make for a fun "side-quest" to control them on their mission(s).
If you're really into role playing and investigating, Carrion Crown is the campaign for you. There are battles, and book 6 is incredibly combat focused, but the AP loses a lot of its flavor if you rush past the RP. Of course, most of the battles have the possibility of being a TPK, so it's not like the fights aren't exciting either...
Good to hear. I'm really enjoying the role-playing and investigation element so far. Granted it was slightly frustrating not starting with some of the knowledges I'd have liked, but now that I'm level 2, I've got them all covered, so I expect that will go much smoother now. Building relationships with some of the townsfolk has gotten off to a good start as well.
As for the battles...yeah I'd heard CC had some TPK potential in several spots. I'm not above running away to re-establish some kind of tactical advantage for myself if necessary, and I should have the mobility to make that doable once I get to 4th level, but I'll have to be extra cautious until then. I'll likely be devoting most of my spell slots to defense at first (i.e. some combination of shield, windy escape, obscuring mist, and vanish...along with mage armor, protection from evil, and rejuvenate eidolon from the summoner side of things).
As much as I want to get into the shocking grasp beatdown phase of the character...its probably better to stick to Brand at first for spellstrike triggering. An extra couple d6s may not really be worth the spell slot right now, when the slot could otherwise be used to save my life (windy escape) or completely change the battlefield (obscuring mist...bonus points in that I started with Blind Fight, so it even gives me a tactical advantage in melee). So, you've probably reinforced the idea of going heavy defense on my spells for now. Must...resist...the dark side. ;-)
Hopefully your GM will keep you 1-2 levels above the expected norm. That would be incredibly helpful.
Yeah, that seems likely. Thanks again.
Even on the Slow XP progression chart when you are solo you should pretty quickly attain about 2 levels above "expected" - surviving levels 1 and 2 are your biggest challenges.
IMO A Gestalt Magus/Paladin or Magus/Inquisitor would be the way to go.
The inquisitor gives you all the right skills, and abilities.
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Bring plenty of disposables. Holy waters, alchemist's fire, acid flasks, tanglefoot bags, silver blanch...actually, at least 1 weapon blanch of everything.
As early as possible get some sort of "ESCAPE" back-up. A potion of Gaseous Form, a Teleport scroll (hey, you can cast that even at 1st level, with enough time and no mishaps), a wand of Dimension Door with 1 or 2 charges left (420-840gp to buy), etc. Something that can get you OUT of a bad situation/location.
Disclaimer: never ran cc, mild char ops experience.
What kind of point buy are you using? This seems really MAD. Try and find a way to work a 2 level dip of paladin in for the CHA to saves?
If you are adventuring solo, I'm going to assume that means you will have 4x the wealth of a pc at your level once you start looting. That will help you a lot if the dm let's you buy anything you want. If you can't stop at the magic mart for every obscure scroll or wand you want, grab leadership and get a crafting companion. I know leadership might ruin your idea of solo play but hear me out on this:
Make it a dwarf wizard(arcane crafter school), spend favored class option on crafting speed, and grab all the crafting/arcane builder feats you can, and make your third level cohorts also be wizards with the arcane crafter school, and give them cooperative crafting (if you pumped CHA, should have at least one by level 8). All this lets you craft at a much faster speed (example: focus only on wonderous items and craft up [(1000+200*lvl)*1.25*<#of lvl 3 followers*2>] ) and you can keep it safe at town while you play.
I think you might also want to give the race builder a once over. If your plan is to be a summoned four armed monster with gestalt rules doing the job of 4 people, I wouldn't think it's so far fetched that you were different from most half elves. Might be worth either trading some rp around or seeing if your dm will toss you a spare rp or two.
Really the biggest thing with solo play is having an answer to everything. If you make a build that focuses on a narrow scope you need items to cover it. example: do you have an answer for low-mid level flying monsters? If your int is less than 16 that could be an issue having to reserve your 3rd level slot with fly if you can't get scrolls.
Also, ask about custom item rules. And remember the rule for adding new abilities to existing items for 50% more to free up item slots/options.
Get a contingency for teleporting out of bad times. Better than a scroll since it can be a free action.
Also try paying for an npc wizard to cast clone on you to mitigate death from an unlucky roll.
If you got the cash, a black soul shard will help in an undead heavy campaign. (I get the vibe that cc is, could be wrong)
Do not underestimate non magical equipment, you will need everything you can get to survive levels 1-4. That first level is going to be really ugly.
That's all I can think of without drastically altering the build. Really depends on the point buy allowed.
Thanks, more great stuff!
Bring plenty of disposables...
get some sort of "ESCAPE" back-up. Something that can get you OUT of a bad situation/location.
Yes, good call on the escape plan. SOP for my casters is usually a potion of gaseous form, but a scroll of teleport is a good idea as well. My UMD will ultimately be pretty good, but its certainly not at my current level, so the potion will likely be the first choice.
What kind of point buy are you using? This seems really MAD. Try and find a way to work a 2 level dip of paladin in for the CHA to saves?
25 point buy. Synthesist helps tremendously with an otherwise MAD build since I don't need high physicals. I'm also focusing mostly on utility and buffs with my summoner spells, so I don't need a super high Cha either. I certainly need to alter my normal tactics when the eidolon is not around. In such cases, I'll use the summoner's SM SLA and play like a traditional caster, avoiding melee, etc.
My array is Str7 Dex10 Con12 Int20 Wis14 Cha14 and with the eidolon summoned, the physicals become Str17 Dex13 Con13 (I'm level 2 so Str/Dex have gone up a point each from the base form).
I may indeed end up dipping 2 levels of paladin at some point. I'll see how things go, but I'm not above doing so (I try not to be too cheesy in group play, but solo? Yeah I'm not above pulling out all the stops ;-). It would require an appropriate alignment shifting story element like a near death (or actual death) experience though, as I'm currently CG.
I'm not yet sure whether to sacrifice 2 levels of Magus or 2 levels of Summoner (probably summoner) to fit that in, and its most likely that dip will be happening later in the character's life, if at all...unless I find I just REALLY need it (though my Cha isn't super high atm, and a Cha headband isn't likely my first priority). Still, Cha to saves (and a use of smite plus some weak LoH) are some pretty nice perks. If only there were a way to get mercies earlier.
If you are adventuring solo, I'm going to assume that means you will have 4x the wealth of a pc at your level once you start looting.
At first, yes probably. I'm sure that if things start getting ridiculous the GM will begin withholding some treasure as he sees fit though. We'll see. At any rate, its probably safe to assume I'll end up well above standard WBL.
Leadership stuff...
I'll see how it goes. In general, our games assume straightforward access to needed magic items either by direct purchase or via commission. I don't know how things will work out in CC with respect to the available items in the settlements or the sizes of the towns/cities in general, but I do not get the impression that there will be much downtime to craft once the ball gets rolling.
A crafting cohort who stays home and crafts would have time, sure, but at that point, it might as well be an NPC. Not to mention that if I do end up above WBL as I suspect will happen, I'm not concerned with paying full price, as long as I can get what I want/need in a reasonable time frame. I like the suggestion though; seems very effective.
If your plan is to be a summoned four armed monster with gestalt rules doing the job of 4 people, I wouldn't think it's so far fetched that you were different from most half elves.
Early on, when he is summoned (not planning on having him around much if at all in town, especially before I'm implicitly trusted), it looks more like a nondescript wispy, ghostly aura around my character. As I level, he'll get stronger and gradually get more of a distinct physical form of his own. He'll still be tethered to me (at least until I use abilities like Split Forms later on), but will end up growing in size such that he sort of towers over and is superimposed over the half-elf below (Large evolution), and he will be able to manifest arms of his own (Limbs evolution).
It won't ever actually look like I'm a half elf with 4 arms, though I'll have the use of 4 arms. Although he won't be able to speak in his own voice, since we are one being, the eidolon will also develop his own consciousness/voice via my intelligent Black Blade, so he will at least be able to communicate with ME telepathically. Should make for some fun RP opportunity, at at least I'll always have some company.
Really the biggest thing with solo play is having an answer to everything. If you make a build that focuses on a narrow scope you need items to cover it. example: do you have an answer for low-mid level flying monsters?
Very much so. Versatility is a very high priority. The Evolution Surge line of spells will help with that tremendously, and at higher levels, Paragon Surge will take it to another level. It is definitely not my intention to focus too narrowly on any one thing.
As for Flying, yeah, I'll have the Flight Hex from level 4 (when I'll be able to levitate, and actually Fly at 5th level) so I can fly whenever I need/want to (for minutes per level per day). Enough for any number of encounters and some utility uses/travel over short distances (more obstacle circumvention than a means of overland travel).
Also, ask about custom item rules. And remember the rule for adding new abilities to existing items for 50% more to free up item slots/options.
Will do, but this shouldn't be a problem.
Get a contingency for teleporting out of bad times. Better than a scroll since it can be a free action.
Having Contingency cast on me is a great idea. I'll remember that if I find someone down the line who's capable of the task.
Also try paying for an npc wizard to cast clone on you to mitigate death from an unlucky roll.
Hehe. Another good idea, although I dunno how I feel about the flavor of it ;-)
If you got the cash, a black soul shard will help in an undead heavy campaign. (I get the vibe that cc is, could be wrong)
WOW. I didn't know this existed. Definitely sounds like something I'll be trying to acquire. Thanks.
Do not underestimate non magical equipment, you will need everything you can get to survive levels 1-4. That first level is going to be really ugly.
Yup. Getting to level 4 is going to be tough. We accelerated level 1, so I only played at that level for 1 session, but yeah, it was brutal. 2 of the encounters weren't too bad, but the 3rd was pretty close to ending me.
I'll be playing again tomorrow. Hopefully I'll make it to the next session.
Thanks again!
I think you might also want to give the race builder a once over. If your plan is to be a summoned four armed monster with gestalt rules doing the job of 4 people, I wouldn't think it's so far fetched that you were different from most half elves.
In the case of Carrion Crown specifically, that would be a Really Bad Idea.
Ustelav as presented in CC is xenophobic.
A ranger/inquisitor with undead enemy is not bad either.
Trapper archetype is usefull, considering that inquisitor can supply the mystic side, and you get a companion to be used as flanker and meat shield.
In the case of Carrion Crown specifically, that would be a Really Bad Idea.
Ustlav as presented in CC is xenophobic.
Which is precisely WHY I do NOT plan to have the eidolon summoned in town except in cases of extreme emergency, and certainly not at first under any circumstance that I'll be seen.
Around civilization, I'm just a half-elf Magus with extra spells from also being a summoner. They already know I'm a magic user. Some of the more observant ones also likely know that I'm a half-elf as well (my character uses disguise to attempt to hide that from casual observation). That hasn't helped them trust me any easier, but there are other magic users in town at any rate.
I'll continue to do good deeds, and try to earn the people's trust, but ultimately, if they want my help, they'll just have to learn to trust me. If I'm ever forced to call upon the eidolon while still in town, I expect that to be a bit of a setback if witnessed by anyone. I'll cross that bridge when I come to it, but hopefully I've managed to ingratiate myself a bit before that happens.
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Also, while I'm happy to discuss nice class combinations for solo play in general terms, all the responses along the lines of "you should play this class combination instead" are not particularly helpful.
I've already got a character and have already started the AP. I'm simply looking for ways to get the most out of my character and for general tips on solo play. Advice on potential level dips to include could be useful, but I do not plan on completely rebuilding the character. Thanks.
I'm playing a Hexcrafter/Synthesist gestalt. I am likely to work a 2 level paladin dip into the build at some point. I could probably do it as early as levels 5-6, but atm I'm leaning heavily towards doing that much later on, like level 13-14 or so.
So please, I'd appreciate it if build advice could be kept relevant to the build I'm using, or to suggestions of potential level dips for something in particular (i.e. paladin 2 for Cha to saves). Or, if you just want to suggest a neat gestalt/solo class combo, that's cool too; just know that I'm not likely going to play it.
As far as cc being xenophobic, I can accept that as a handwave on npcs not liking an outsider race, but to identify a variant half elf with, lets say something other than low light vision, how many npcs are you running into with ranks in knowledge nature/geography to mechanically identify you as "not the average half elf"? You need to at least be trained with 1 rank to roll the check. What about rp options that don't physically alter your character? Would you have to disguise check to hide that you traded the skill focus feat and elven defenses for the human bonus feat?
Good for mentioning that, but it sounds like its not something most npcs are going to know without a handwave, and it sounds like something the dm would overlook. I think the op got a very generous dm.
Also: just remembered there's a pump sprayer you can load with holy water, but for the life of me I can't find the rules for it. Maybe I'm not remembering right, but I could have sworn there was a way to effect a large area with holy water. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
As far as...how many npcs are you running into with ranks in knowledge nature/geography to mechanically identify you as "not the average half elf"? You need to at least be trained with 1 rank to roll the check. What about rp options that don't physically alter your character? Would you have to disguise check to hide that you traded the skill focus feat and elven defenses for the human bonus feat?
Well...none. As long as I walk about town without the eidolon shell summoned, I am in all discernable ways, just a half-elf. Theres no more way to tell Im bound to a ghostly extraplanar entity than there is to tell that guy wearing full plate is really an eldritch knight (least until he starts casting lol).
Now, when the eidolon IS summoned? Sure, at that point, theres clearly something abnormal going on with my character from a visual sense. I do wear a headband to cover the rune which appears when a summoner brings out big E, but there's still the matter of the fully visible ghost hanging about over my shoulder (later on large with his own arms). Thats not something i am even looking to handwave. I dont expect people to be okay with that for the most part. If i get to the point where i am trusted enough to walk around like that? Great, but i am not really expecting to do so.
Also: just remembered there's a pump sprayer you can load with holy water, but for the life of me I can't find the rules for it. Maybe I'm not remembering right, but I could have sworn there was a way to effect a large area with holy water. Anybody know what I'm talking about?
Heh, i have not heard of that, but it could definitely come in handy methinks. I would like to see the reference if such a thing exists...or perhaps i can hire someone to make a "pump sprayer" for me. Lol. Not sure who in Ravensgro may be qualified for that...
Oath of vengeance paladin, sound striker/detective bard could be a fun combo if you die.
Annihilate your opponents with Smiting Weird Words.
Enjoy your giant range of skills, saves, and other such amusements.
The Battle Aspergillum can damage incorporeal undead at level 1 for you.
Yeah, if anyone knows what this holy water pump sprayer thing is, I'd like to hear about it too.
Regarding your future build, can I suggest that you take your two paladin levels on the Magus side? Summoners are a really bad class to multiclass with. Big 'E' is dependent on your Summoner levels.
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At level 6 grab Broad study as your first Arcana.
I went Kensai/Synthesist for the gestalt game I'm in. Only level 2: neat stuff has not kicked in yet. Advantage: AC bonuses from both classes stack. Insane initiative at higher level. You can't wear armor anyways.
Invest in UMD. Even if Charisma is not a good stat, you'll want to be able to UMD cleric scrolls/wands.
Regarding your future build, can I suggest that you take your two paladin levels on the Magus side? Summoners are a really bad class to multiclass with. Big 'E' is dependent on your Summoner levels.
Yeah, of course. I'm still up in the air on the details of when and how (or even if) to fit the paladin levels in. Neither of these classes is all that multiclass friendly. That said, not that I'll see level 20 or anything, but I dont care much for either of the capstone abilities (especially twin eidolon). The eidolon doesnt lose out on a HD or BAB (long term) if I only sacrifice one level from summoner progression...and two levels in a full BAB class does net me a 4th iterative FWIW.
Is it possible to sacrifice one level from each class to get two paladin levels? Gestalt multiclassing is rather unclear and I've never really used the rules before. Is this a bad idea for a reason I'm not thinking of?
For example say I slot a level of paladin in between summoner levels 5 and 7 (at character level 6) then another level of paladin in between magus levels 6 and 8 (at character level 7). If that works, at character level 7, I'd end up Magus 6, Summoner 6, Paladin 2. Then continue to progress Magus and Summoner as normal.
Thats about the earliest I can really justify fitting things in if I delay Magus progression though, since IMO, the Broad Study Arcana is going to be pretty vital so I can use summoner spells with spell combat. Its even easier to fit in at level 13-14 (and even better if I once again delay the summoner level first, then the Magus level).
By level 13-14 you'll be in book 6 racing towards the BBEG. Which isn't to say that doing it that way would be a bad thing. Just something to keep in mind.
By level 13-14 you'll be in book 6 racing towards the BBEG. Which isn't to say that doing it that way would be a bad thing. Just something to keep in mind.
Good point. At least I can get great saves before getting to the BBEG ;-)
I'll have to get a feel for my saves during actual play before really deciding how urgent it is that I fit those levels in.
At any rate, I suppose its possible that I'll be somewhat higher level than a normal party throughout the adventure to somewhat compensate for being alone. We'll see...
By level 13-14 you'll be in book 6 racing towards the BBEG. Which isn't to say that doing it that way would be a bad thing. Just something to keep in mind.Good point. At least I can get great saves before getting to the BBEG ;-)
I'll have to get a feel for my saves during actual play before really deciding how urgent it is that I fit those levels in.
At any rate, I suppose its possible that I'll be somewhat higher level than a normal party throughout the adventure to somewhat compensate for being alone. We'll see...
Yes. If you're a summoner, you are more powerful than a regular party.
paladin.
i debated making the above my whole post but decided that, while it may stress the conviction of my answer, it would do nothing to explain why... the summoner's greatest strength is breaking action economy (which you'll need in order to play a 4 person adventure alone)- by making a synthesist for survivability you lose that. instead pair a standard summoner with another class that grants survivability. paladin would be a great option because there's good charisma synergy and the ability to heal yourself as a swift action further breaks action economy; plus at 5th level (assuming you make it that far) you can take a boar or some other AC instead of the weapon divine bond. your pets will handle the bulk of combat a lot of the time, freeing you to take non-combat feats if you want... eldritch heritage [arcane] would get you a familiar too, pair that with improved familiar and evolved familiar and you'll have a serious combatant in your eidolon, a flanking buddy/fair combatant in your AC, a UMD using skill monkey (with its own round of actions) in your familiar- plus you still have your own turn to use (with full BAB and a decent amount of spells). 13 Int may seem like a waste just for evolved familiar, but it also opens up Unsanctioned Knowledge and Combat Expertise as feat options (and could be dropped if you needed the points elsewhere).
lots of stuff about a paladin/summoner combo
All very good points, and I agree that a paladin/summoner (any archetype really), is probably the MOST optimal class combination for my situation and adventure path. If my character dies outright, or if I get let down by how things actually play out, I think my current backup plan is to play just that. Or at least Paladin/Something.
As far as all the eidolon + animal companion + boosted familiar shenanigans, that's just not my style. I recognize the power, I just hate playing pet classes, and hate having that many things on the table at once (at least all the time...the summon monster spells I can deal with).
Its my preference that my character is the hero, at least most of the time, rather than all his pets. Plus, I find that having so many "helpers" around ends up watering down all the personalities and role-play, when I need to roleplay my familiar, AC, Big E, AND myself. I may be a bit crazy, but that's A LOT of personalities to juggle lol. IME, the end result winds up being that none of them ends up having much personality at all, and that's a shame.
Besides, if I REALLY wanted to go overboard with that "army" idea, I'd probably combine Master Summoner with Druid (or Sylvan Sorcerer + Boon Companion for Cha synergy). Might as well throw in eldritch heritage for a familiar as well (and evolve it). An eidolon (albeit a weaker one), an animal companion, a familiar, and as many SM spells as I want at a given time? Talk about walking around with an on demand army...lol.
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As for my current build, while losing action economy is never a good thing, synthesist has quite a few pretty well documented advantages, namely that their survivability is just off the charts. Any normal summoner is going to have a similar disadvantage of not being able to summon their "monster" in town that I'm going to be dealing with anyway.
Obviously, a paladin build would be much sturdier without the eidolon summoned than I currently am, but I'm very experienced at playing fragile caster types, so I feel comfortable switching to that role when deprived of big E. The summon monster SLA is very powerful after all (many argue its the most powerful Summoner class feature).
I'm not above using flight, invisibility, mirror image, stealth, etc. to stay safe myself, combined with casting the SM SLA, then buffing the monster(s) and using them till they're killed...then repeating the process all over again. I can use the ability like a million times per day after all (well 5 right now, but still). In such a case (or even with Big E around), I'll probably make heavy use of tactical retreats and skirmish tactics as well. And if necessary, I'll just full on for-real retreat and lick my wounds to fight another day.
Maybe I'm crazy and I'll die horribly. If that happens, yeah I'll definitely reconsider my class combination, and probably work in a full paladin progression.
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Back to the action economy business though, I DO get a good bit of what I trade away by going synthesist back by going Magus (via spell combat). I can already buff and attack in the same round (or just go nova). Once I get Broad Study, I'll also be able to use the evolution surge and rejuvenate/restore eidolon to heal (and buff even better) while continuing to fight. Granted, I've got to wait until level 6 to heal and fight simultaneously, while a Paladin can do that from level 2.
So I'm just back to the initial concern of surviving the first several levels. I really feel like if I CAN do so, my current build has potential that's just astronomical. It'll be fun regardless I think.
Thanks everyone again for your help. I'm enjoying all the discussion at any rate.
I'm playing again tonight; wish me luck!
I know the paladin been mentioned a few times, but a Paladin/Oracle of Battle would be very strong as well..
Paladin/Summoner gives you not only enhanced ability to shrug things off, it gives you excellent 'self repair' for both yourself and your pets/Big E. The major downside with this combination is going to be your Reflex saving throws. IIRC the summoner has no capability to heal himself, which is the biggest concern when playing solo.
my concern with action economy, i think, goes beyond what you'll get back, especially for the first level or two...
magus 1/synth 1 = +0 BAB
biped= 16 str- +3 hit/dmg
feats: kensai= wf- +1 hit
assume extra limbs (so that you can wield 2-hander and still spell combat, plus gain a claw attack on FA routine) and nat armor evolutions (16 total AC)...
CR 1 encounter: 3 goblins
rnd 1: you have +1 init, their +6 means they most likely go first...
a) they spread apart to avoid cleave and what not. with shortbows they each have a 45% chance to hit you for 2.5 average damage (so- 3.375 expected damage, round to 3), and your 'armor' goes from 5hp to 2.
b) you have to close the distance... you charge, extra +2 gives you 55% chance to hit (they're AC 16), your greatsword does 6 minimum damage, which is their HP total, so you've got slightly better than even odds of killing one (we'll give you the benefit of the doubt).
rnd 2:
a) goblins move again- prevent charge and, if possible move too far for single move. two now have 55% to hit (-2 AC from charge) for same avg (2.75 expected- we rounded up for you, so...) you take 3 dmg- that would banish suit, so you take it from your 9 (down to 6).
b) this isn't going very well. you could switch to a range weapon? you're chance to hit will suck, and it'll do less damage... you could cast expeditious retreat? let's do that; and single move next to one. it's that or take cover and see how many magic missiles it takes to kill them (you memorized a ton of those right?)
rnd 3:
a) goblin next to you 5' steps; you're down to 3hp.
b) you 5' step and go all greatsword/claw/spell on his ass- he super dead.
rnd 4+:
a) goblin tries to avoid you while dealing 1.125 expected damage per round
b) you chase him around trying to kill him before he does 4 more damage (which would banish big E and leave you with 1hp, assuming your Con matches big E's)
statistically, as long as you get that kill in the first round (55% chance to...) you should win this fight- but you'll be in rough shape afterwards.
that same fight with a pally/summoner (sorry, don't have enough time for full break down)-
rnd 1: goblins deal roughly equivalent dmg; quadruped bigE charge/pounces one (claw/claw/bite= 20.5 avg dmg x 45% chance to hit = 9.225 expected dmg), dead, you charge one with greatsword (14 str)roughly same chance to hit/kill as first build (probably 50% instead of 55% from str decrease, very slightly less since there's a 1/36 chance you'd leave him with 1 hp)
rnd 2+: bigE (quickly) hunts down last guy, you finish off first target (if not already done)
could that fight go sideways? sure, at that level every fight is one crit from fubar, but i think its definitely more likely to succeed
in the end its your gaming experience, make whatever will be the most fun for you to play. this is just my 2cp on how to survive (since you asked for it). good luck tonight.
Paladin/Oracle of Battle gives u a stupid amount of heals.. U hit hard, ur saves are great(barring reflex).. U have swift heals from pally and oracle.. Divine Power/Righteous Might while Smiting seems good..
Oh and ur not walking around in a stupid bug suit... Sorry i just hate summoners...
Here is some good weapon advice: Get yourself either a disrupting weapon, or a good Bane. Also by Part 4 you will NEED some good Will ave stuff.
I'll probably have a bane weapon or two. Disrupting will obviously be on a backup weapon since it can't be on a scimitar (without first adding the transformative property).
Will is by far my best save. Its a good save for either class, plus decent Wis, plus Dual Minded Hal-Elf racial trait, means I'm already at +7 at level 2...plus an extra +2 vs. enchantments/mind-control (that becomes +6 when the eidolon Devotion ability kicks in at level 6). Can't have a high enough Will IMO, but it ought to be pretty decent at any rate.
Paladin/Summoner gives you not only enhanced ability to shrug things off, it gives you excellent 'self repair' for both yourself and your pets/Big E. The major downside with this combination is going to be your Reflex saving throws. IIRC the summoner has no capability to heal himself, which is the biggest concern when playing solo.
Yup. Swift action LoH+Mercies are pretty sexy. I do have some self repair via the rejuvenate (and later restore) eidolon spell line, which work to replenish the temp HP. Normal summoners can't heal themselves, but synthesists can. When I'm NOT fused though, no I can't heal myself without going invisible and drinking a potion or UMD-ing some other item. Point for the Pally there, for sure.
Reflex saves are currently my lowest save as well. Granted, they are by far the least important save, especially with all the effective HP I end up with (failed Ref saves usually equate to taking HP damage...or falling into Create Pit, but I'll be able to levitate/fly for that). Being a Synthesist, I do get Evasion and later Improved Evasion though, so that's a nice perk, even with a lower Ref save.
Paladin/Oracle of Battle gives u a stupid amount of heals.. U hit hard, ur saves are great(barring reflex).. U have swift heals from pally and oracle.. Divine Power/Righteous Might while Smiting seems good..
Very true. That could be a contender if I need to re-roll down the line.
Oh and ur not walking around in a stupid bug suit... Sorry i just hate summoners...
To each their own ;-)
I really like the synthesist archetype (less so the class as a whole due to my dislike of pet classes). The class (and eidolon) is probably way more complicated to build correctly than it should be, and should never be played by anyone new to character building. Its just too easy to screw up. But building characters is a hobby of mine, and I'm pretty meticulous about it. I'll usually spend weeks on a build before I play it.
I would also be hesitant to play a synthesist in a party with any other front line character, since I'd likely overshadow them at their intended role (my current GM and I are the optimizers at our table, the others not so much). I'd also hesitate to play any other summoner archetype at all with other people at the table, due to the extra time and attention I'd require to get through my turn. Even if you're efficient at it, a summoning caster with 2-5 things on the board takes way longer than the fighter does...and that's not good.
But playing solo? Now I don't have to worry about overshadowing anyone. Lets me play the class how I want to, and get it out of my system before getting back to a group game ;-)
Combat example
You're right with regards to the fact that I've currently got a "poor man's action economy advantage" vs. 2 full sets of actions, but to be fair, I wouldn't try to fight that type of encounter anything like that.
Instead, those 2 Evo points go to Skilled (Stealth and Perception). Which means I likely get the jump on the goblins before they even know I'm there; I'll generally have a pretty good shot at a surprise round against anything that doesn't have obscene senses of its own. That also means I might have the opportunity to prebuff sometimes.
Let's assume I don't just drop Obscuring Mist (love this spell) and proceed to murder them one by one (Stealth + Blind Fight). That's likely what I'd do against any ranged attackers (or sneak attackers), but lets do it the brute force way.
I'd have a good chance to drop a goblin in the surprise round. Doing a partial charge I'd be at a +8 to attack vs. flat-footed AC of 14 (75% chance to hit; let's not do spell combat for now...later on I can use level 2+ spells to close the gap with spellcombat, but not yet). With my 1d6+4 damage (3 str, 1 enhancement from arcane pool, I'd have to roll a 1 not to kill it. The other goblins still being at range with bows, I'd at least consider dropping prone as a free action for +4AC. If I had any kind of decent cover, I'd stay standing though. BTW, goblins don't have precise shot, so if that goblin is still up, they take a -4 to hit me, and I also likely have soft cover from their buddy.
Now initiative. They're likely to beat me, but only its only a 15% advantage. If I win, I'm gravy. Let's say they win. They move and shoot at me. That +4 attack bonus only gives them a 5-30% chance to hit me depending where on the AC scale I am (and whether I'm level 1 or 2...I'm level 2 when the module assumes level 1 FWIW). Even at 30% chance to hit, they only deal 1d4 damage (small shortbows). So only 1.5 expected damage...lets say they still manage to do the 3 from your example. My turn.
If I'm prone, I stand, then either (1) cast vanish and 5' step, or (2) move behind cover and stealth (their perception is garbage at -1). If I'm standing, I'd either charge again if able, or do the same thing as above except with more movement to close the gap. If that first goblin somehow lived, I'd spell combat to finish it off then cast vanish and 5' step as above.
Their turn...only good luck finding me to shoot at me. If they close to melee range, great. I get to use spell combat (probably with a cantrip at this point) and kill one. If they hang back, great. I'll just start back at the beginning and take them on one at a time.
Tactics can really tilt any battle in your favor. I'm usually pretty tactical, especially with spells at my disposal.
good luck tonight.
Thanks!
Yeah, if anyone knows what this holy water pump sprayer thing is, I'd like to hear about it too.
Found it...just not sure its worth it.
Its in the Adventurer's Armory on page 7. Doesnt show up in the SRD or any of the hardcovers as far as I am aware.
Anyway, it holds 4 gallons of water and can spray a gallon of it up to 10 feet away as a standard action. No mention of holy water, but there's no reason you couldnt fill it with that vs. normal water.
That said, its cost prohibitive. A gallon of water weighs more than 8 pounds (lets just call it 8 even). A flask of holy water weighs 1 pound (at 25gp a piece). So you would need to blow 200gp for every use of the pump canister delivering holy water. It would cost 800gp to fill (and it would weigh quite a bit...like 37 pounds filled). The pump itself costs 75gp and weighs 5 pounds.
Maybe if a DM ruled that it could deliver multiple "doses" of holy water simultaneously, it could be worthwhile for mid to high level PCs, but that would probably be OP. 8 flasks of holy water would deal 16d4 damage...
Anyways, I made it through another night.
Headed to Harrowstone and entered the second story via the balcony. Dealt with the scythe haunt no problem. The GM had to downgrade its hardness 10 because I basicaly couldn't get through that, but he also didnt know in the moment that it was succeptible to disrupt undead, which would have made it way easier than it was anyway. My AC just made me very very tough to hit.
Due to where I entered, I quickly encountered the Piper. That was interesting. My high Will save and good rolls protected me from him almost completely, but there wasn't a whole lot I could do to hurt him by the rules. I had to blow two haunt siphons on him (the GM gave me 2 extras though).
I am probably going to have to go back to town to do some more research...specifically on how to deal with the other 4 prisoners...and anyone else that may be in there. I'm hoping I can uncover something about potential weaknesses and/or alternate ways to combat them. I'm gonna run out of siphons if I keep having to use 2-3 on each of them.
I had disrupt undead and several flasks of holy water, but there was technically nothing to target. Not sure how this is get resolved. Maybe I can uncover something and maybe the GM will have to rule that one or both of my other available methods work on future haunts. I didn't want to read any other threads in detail, but a quick glance at one or two suggests this is a common problem, and some DMs rule that holy water can damage haunts. We'll see what the GM wants to do there...
I'd also like to try to see if I can get some kind of old bluebrint for the prison to get an idea of the layout...especially if there are records of specifically wherein the prison these guys were housed.
Before I go back, I am also probably going to try to use the spirit board to contact whoever I can. Maybe Veseriana (sp?)...maybe the Warden. Probably a bad idea to try to talk to the prisoners, considering several of them just tried to kill me, hehe.
Lots of fun. Great atmosphere. Being solo makes EVERYTHING scary. Even encounters where they basically cant hit me (and HP attrition is not my weak point). I really dig all the investigation and strategic research. Can't wait to play again next week!