How do you figure 11? I went back and looked.
"The ability scores for a basic NPC are: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, and 8."
-2 for 8, -1 for 9, 3 for 13, 2 for 12, 1 for 11, and 0 for 10.
Looks like a 3 Point Buy for Basic to me, unless I'm looking at the wrong chart.
In Freeport, the 15th level commoner runs the Last Resort, a swanky hotel. Probably the highest level canon NPC I've seen.Wait so there is a 15th level commoner in print.... what book is that in??
I want to say Freeport Companion? It is either that or Freeport: City of Adventure.
I think Homer Would have standard Int but really low wisdom.
something like:
Str 8
Dex 10
Con 8
Int 10
Wis 7
Cha 20 (I had to blow the points and the +2 human SOMEwhere)
that would mean HOMER would have an excellent UMD for a commoner! UMD +6! Woo Hoo!
I didnt even look to commoners get class skills?
Profession: Nuclear Disaster Waiting to Happen, Profession: astronaut and Profession: Rodeo clown. Has he ever trained at any other actual professions?
I might be thinking of the Heroic Array... Sorry.
& He is fairly strong and resilient. I mean he is broken through a door weekly and can grapple Bart pretty well.
I might be thinking of the Heroic Array... Sorry.
& He is fairly strong and resilient. I mean he is broken through a door weekly and can grapple Bart pretty well.
He once fought Mike Tyson. (or some caricature thereof) His Strength isn't likely to be 8, and his Con is definitely higher than that. He got to the title fight by being simply too tough for his opponents to knock out, and then easily knocking them over once they were exhausted from hitting him.
He is a Nuclear Power Plant Engineer... But seems to have no common sense... I mean less than Sheldon Cooper.
Technically, he is a safety inspector. And he got the job by showing up at the plant the first day! (~Simpsons nerd away!)
He is a Nuclear Power Plant Engineer... But seems to have no common sense... I mean less than Sheldon Cooper.Technically, he is a safety inspector. And he got the job by showing up at the plant the first day! (~Simpsons nerd away!)
Except for the fact that in one episode he became an Engineer after graduating college.
Except for the fact that in one episode he became an Engineer after graduating college.He is a Nuclear Power Plant Engineer... But seems to have no common sense... I mean less than Sheldon Cooper.Technically, he is a safety inspector. And he got the job by showing up at the plant the first day! (~Simpsons nerd away!)
Sorry, no. He took one class to be considered qualified for his job as safety (technician I think). He never graduated.
I always explained NPC level advancement as an expression of time. Aristocrats and NPC adventures advanced at a rate one levels per year after reaching adulthood. Experts and Warriors advanced at a rate of one level every two years. Commoners advanced at a rate of one level for every three years after reaching adulthood. Therefore, a 15th level Commoner would just be a 60 year old farmer. A farmer of that age and skill would easily be seen as an unofficial leader of the community, and recognized for his high level. It makes backstories much easier that way.
So if the 60 year old neighbor had killed a few goblins, he could be the same level as his older neighbor, but at a younger age?
"Dang it son, had I only killed those kobolds last year, I'd be ahead on these crops, and been able to fix my wagon better! Go get a REAL job, don't be a farmer, be an adventurer! That's where the future is! Whhhhhheeeeeeez!"
I always explained NPC level advancement as an expression of time. Aristocrats and NPC adventures advanced at a rate one levels per year after reaching adulthood. Experts and Warriors advanced at a rate of one level every two years. Commoners advanced at a rate of one level for every three years after reaching adulthood. Therefore, a 15th level Commoner would just be a 60 year old farmer. A farmer of that age and skill would easily be seen as an unofficial leader of the community, and recognized for his high level. It makes backstories much easier that way.
I use a similar system, except that it takes 'n' years, where 'n' is the new level, for the average person to level up. There are adjustments based upon the 'diligence or laziness' I assign to the NPCs to determine the actual level.
No, because Commoners have no business fighting anything, that's what they pay adventurers to do. On my table, all 15th level Human Commoners are sixty years old.
They do encourage their grandchildren to become wizards, fighters, or even experts, just like my farmer grandpa encouraged me to go to college.
"Go get that better life I never did"
so a 7th level commoner, who would have 21 hp and a better BAB than a 1st level goblin warrior, should do nothing when the goblin kills his horse and his dog and is terrorizing his chickens?
Infact, 10 goblins raiding the average village, by those statistics would get their arses handed to them by a town full of 40 year olds.
so a 7th level commoner, who would have 21 hp and a better BAB than a 1st level goblin warrior, should do nothing when the goblin kills his horse and his dog and is terrorizing his chickens?
Infact, 10 goblins raiding the average village, by those statistics would get their arses handed to them by a town full of 40 year olds.
10 goblins raiding a village should get their arses handed to them, there is between 60 and 200 people in that village.
Commoners lack the funds to purchase armor and weapons. Maybe they use farm implements as weapons, but I doubt they have the feats required to use them without penalty. 7th level Commoner has BAB of +3 and is proficient with one simple weapon. Let's say they picks Sickle, seems smart as they're a farmer. But he's at a temple ceremony during they Goblin raid (RotR pt.1), so he doesn't have his trusty Sickle. And he never had the extra change after supplies to buy leather armor, not that he'd wear that to the event. The raiders got 3rd level bards demoralizing everyone, warriors with torches, and rangers mounted on goblin-dogs. Let's say this commoner works up the courage, breaks a leg of a table, and runs into battle. He has a -4 to his attack as a improvised club is not a sickle, cancelling his +3 BAB. Suddenly, his advantage is lost against even one well-armed goblin raider. He's dead against three. Times that by how many villagers you want, by the end of the raid, enough people have died at the hands of lowly goblins to make anyone think twice about doing what they can easily pay adventurers to do.
Commoners lack the funds to purchase armor and weapons. Maybe they use farm implements as weapons, but I doubt they have the feats required to use them without penalty. 7th level Commoner has BAB of +3 and is proficient with one simple weapon. Let's say they picks Sickle, seems smart as they're a farmer. But he's at a temple ceremony during they Goblin raid (RotR pt.1), so he doesn't have his trusty Sickle. And he never had the extra change after supplies to buy leather armor, not that he'd wear that to the event. The raiders got 3rd level bards demoralizing everyone, warriors with torches, and rangers mounted on goblin-dogs. Let's say this commoner works up the courage, breaks a leg of a table, and runs into battle. He has a -4 to his attack as a improvised club is not a sickle, cancelling his +3 BAB. Suddenly, his advantage is lost against even one well-armed goblin raider. He's dead against three. Times that by how many villagers you want, by the end of the raid, enough people have died at the hands of lowly goblins to make anyone think twice about doing what they can easily pay adventurers to do.
That's why Commoners don't run out by themselves. They rush out in groups, led by the local peacekeeper or Cleric or militia man. So your 3 Goblins, suddenly see a dozen or so humans rushing at them wielding weapons, even if the weapons are clubs the humans aren't any good at wielding. Or if the leader is smart, they all start throwing rocks at the Goblins. Commoner does not equal stupid.
Commoners lack the funds to purchase armor and weapons. Maybe they use farm implements as weapons, but I doubt they have the feats required to use them without penalty. 7th level Commoner has BAB of +3 and is proficient with one simple weapon. Let's say they picks Sickle, seems smart as they're a farmer. But he's at a temple ceremony during they Goblin raid (RotR pt.1), so he doesn't have his trusty Sickle. And he never had the extra change after supplies to buy leather armor, not that he'd wear that to the event. The raiders got 3rd level bards demoralizing everyone, warriors with torches, and rangers mounted on goblin-dogs. Let's say this commoner works up the courage, breaks a leg of a table, and runs into battle. He has a -4 to his attack as a improvised club is not a sickle, cancelling his +3 BAB. Suddenly, his advantage is lost against even one well-armed goblin raider. He's dead against three. Times that by how many villagers you want, by the end of the raid, enough people have died at the hands of lowly goblins to make anyone think twice about doing what they can easily pay adventurers to do.That's why Commoners don't run out by themselves. They rush out in groups, led by the local peacekeeper or Cleric or militia man. So your 3 Goblins, suddenly see a dozen or so humans rushing at them wielding weapons, even if the weapons are clubs the humans aren't any good at wielding. Or if the leader is smart, they all start throwing rocks at the Goblins. Commoner does not equal stupid.
Paraphrasing what you said earlier, goblins don't raid in small numbers. A dozen or so humans lead by a leader would still suffer heavy casualties against a raiding part of twenty plus goblin warriors, bards, and rangers. If they didn't, why would they need PCs to come in and save them?
1st level adventurers against goblin bards, warriors and rangers?
1st level adventurers with half the HP of the Commoner?
I dont think the adventurers would win either.
As far as 10 goblins with a village of 60 to 200 people? You really think ALL those people as going to fight?
1/3 would be women, 1/3 children of the 1/3 that would be fighting able 20% would be elderly.
In a town of 60 people (the others would be int he outlying areas) 18 capable of actually fighting. Now what percentage of them would be brave enough to? 3 or 4?
In the American Old West, gangs of 4 to 6 men regularly bullied the towns they frequented.
In game how often does an ARMY of goblins march on a town to "raid" it. Numbers of occurring in raiding parties aren't that big. The whole goblin settlement might be that big, but they dont empty out there town to go march on another.
As far as the farmer getting one weapon? Who is to say it's not a club? He's proficient with a weapon, not necessarily his tool as a weapon, since a WAR sickle is NOT just a tool used as a weapon.
a 7th level commoner as a human for example would also have 5 feats.
A 7th level commoner that lives in goblin country where the town gets raided frequently, and doesn't have his weapon on hand?
Back to the 18 men in the village who would or might fight. 3 or 4 of them would be a 40 year old type by this example in the 7th level range, with 20 plus HP and 5 feats to spend on something.
Vs. 3 or 4 adventurers with an average of 10 hp and 1-3 feats.
your Mcguffin goblin group of rangers and a third level bard with warriors to back it up would be a TPK for adventurers of 1st level.
thus the argument leans toward a village being full of 1-3 level commoners and not "Level by age" as it would create a power level in most villages that would out match a starting adventuring group.
Let's for a moment think about a 40 year old man who is a 7th level common farmer?
Str 14
Dex 11
Con 10
Int 13
Wis 8
Cha 9
Hp 28
Feats: WP Short bow (for hunting), toughness (years of hard work), endurance (hard work again), free Weapon proficiency (Sickle), Shield proficiency and Shortsword proficiency (was conscripted in the Lords Militia once)
IF this guy was suited up with his wooded shield, leather armor and shortsword and short bow, because the goblins were attacking, with his AC of 14, Hp of 28 and BAB of +3, and there are at least 3 or more of him in town?
Hiring adventurers would be more along the lines of hiring the exterminator, because you have something better to do.
Adventurers get hired because the town is powerless to do anything. 7-10th level commoners by virtue of age is just.... too much.
Paraphrasing what you said earlier, goblins don't raid in small numbers. A dozen or so humans lead by a leader would still suffer heavy casualties against a raiding part of twenty plus goblin warriors, bards, and rangers. If they didn't, why would they need PCs to come in and save them?Commoners lack the funds to purchase armor and weapons. Maybe they use farm implements as weapons, but I doubt they have the feats required to use them without penalty. 7th level Commoner has BAB of +3 and is proficient with one simple weapon. Let's say they picks Sickle, seems smart as they're a farmer. But he's at a temple ceremony during they Goblin raid (RotR pt.1), so he doesn't have his trusty Sickle. And he never had the extra change after supplies to buy leather armor, not that he'd wear that to the event. The raiders got 3rd level bards demoralizing everyone, warriors with torches, and rangers mounted on goblin-dogs. Let's say this commoner works up the courage, breaks a leg of a table, and runs into battle. He has a -4 to his attack as a improvised club is not a sickle, cancelling his +3 BAB. Suddenly, his advantage is lost against even one well-armed goblin raider. He's dead against three. Times that by how many villagers you want, by the end of the raid, enough people have died at the hands of lowly goblins to make anyone think twice about doing what they can easily pay adventurers to do.That's why Commoners don't run out by themselves. They rush out in groups, led by the local peacekeeper or Cleric or militia man. So your 3 Goblins, suddenly see a dozen or so humans rushing at them wielding weapons, even if the weapons are clubs the humans aren't any good at wielding. Or if the leader is smart, they all start throwing rocks at the Goblins. Commoner does not equal stupid.
When did the raid of 10 goblins, become a raid of 20 plus? You have changed the raid to an invasion by an entire goblin tribe?
Organization gang (4–9), warband (10–16 with goblin dog mounts), or tribe (17+ plus 100% noncombatants; 1 sergeant of 3rd level per 20 adults; 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th level; 1 leader of 6th–8th level; and 10–40 goblin dogs, wolves, or worgs)
Assuming Human ... CR 3
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 10, Cha 9
Hit Points: 90 (15d6+30), AC 13, touch 12, flat-footed 11, CMD 19
Feats (in no particular order): Endurance, Catch-Off Guard, Throw Anything, Great Fortitude/Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes, Toughness, Run, Additional Traits (any two to reflect background)
BAB 7/2: Melee +8/+3, Ranged +8/+3 (+9/+4 thrown splash weapons), CMB +8
Fort +8, Reflex +8, Will +7
Skills: Climb +9, Craft (any one) +18, Handle Animal +17, Perception +8, Profession (any one) +18, Ride +2, Swim +9
Combat Gear: padded armor, torches (at least 3), pitchfork, tindertwigs (1/torch), peasant't outfit, ale and grub money (5 sp), betting money (3 sp, 20 cp), purse, belt pouch, eating dagger.
Optional equipment: molotov cocktails (improvised at the bar), alchemists' fire (looted), battering ram (shared with other commoners), looted ale, lamp oil and hemp rope.
1st level adventurers against goblin bards, warriors and rangers?
1st level adventurers with half the HP of the Commoner?
I dont think the adventurers would win either.
As far as 10 goblins with a village of 60 to 200 people? You really think ALL those people as going to fight?
1/3 would be women, 1/3 children of the 1/3 that would be fighting able 20% would be elderly.
Joan of Arc, Boudica, Atalanta, Hippolyta, Penthesilea, Catherine of Aragorn, Margaret of Anjou, Æthelfleda, Tamar, Emilia Plater, Fu Hao, and many other great women warriors would like to discuss your assertion that women wouldn't fight.
Joan of Arc, Boudica, Atalanta, Hippolyta, Penthesilea, Catherine of Aragorn, Margaret of Anjou, Æthelfleda, Tamar, Emilia Plater, Fu Hao, and many other great women warriors would like to discuss your assertion that women wouldn't fight.1st level adventurers against goblin bards, warriors and rangers?
1st level adventurers with half the HP of the Commoner?
I dont think the adventurers would win either.
As far as 10 goblins with a village of 60 to 200 people? You really think ALL those people as going to fight?
1/3 would be women, 1/3 children of the 1/3 that would be fighting able 20% would be elderly.
REALLY, they all live in that Town?
Now the goblins are REALLY in trouble.
(None of those women count as 'commoners' either)
Joan of Arc, Boudica, Atalanta, Hippolyta, Penthesilea, Catherine of Aragorn, Margaret of Anjou, Æthelfleda, Tamar, Emilia Plater, Fu Hao, and many other great women warriors would like to discuss your assertion that women wouldn't fight.
Oh, you know.
The average people you'd find in the village of Bumfuknow Herr.
That 15th level commoner makes a mean souffle. He's got high HP because he's cut a lot of fingers in the kitchen back in his day.
Swap out Additional Traits for Improved Unarmed Strike and you have the local barroom brawling champ. Break enough chairs over enough mouthy adventurers' skulls, participate in enough mob with pitchfork and torch on monster action, survive enough famine, pestilence and war ...
Eeeyup.
All this talk of low point buy and NPC classes is giving me a hunger for a terrible, terrible idea for a game.
Our "adventurers" all use NPC classes and zero point buy.
Might add a bit of a horror feel to the game! Haha.
Joan of Arc, Boudica, Atalanta, Hippolyta, Penthesilea, Catherine of Aragorn, Margaret of Anjou, Æthelfleda, Tamar, Emilia Plater, Fu Hao, and many other great women warriors would like to discuss your assertion that women wouldn't fight.1st level adventurers against goblin bards, warriors and rangers?
1st level adventurers with half the HP of the Commoner?
I dont think the adventurers would win either.
As far as 10 goblins with a village of 60 to 200 people? You really think ALL those people as going to fight?
1/3 would be women, 1/3 children of the 1/3 that would be fighting able 20% would be elderly.
REALLY, they all live in that Town?
Now the goblins are REALLY in trouble.
(None of those women count as 'commoners' either)
How about Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley then, or Margaret Corbin both replaced their deceased husbands in battle during the Revolutionary War. They both certainly qualify as commoners. And all the women that fought off attacks in the American West.
My point still stands that woman are just as capable of fighting as the men, in some cases more so.
All this talk of low point buy and NPC classes is giving me a hunger for a terrible, terrible idea for a game.
Our "adventurers" all use NPC classes and zero point buy.
Might add a bit of a horror feel to the game! Haha.
I know someone that actually ran that as the starting point for a campaign. The PCs were all 0 Point Commoners to start.
Middle age is -1 physical stats, old is -3 physical stats, venerable is -6 physical stats. Commoners get the same BAB and HD as a wizard (poor, d6).
Sorry, no. He took one class to be considered qualified for his job as safety (technician I think). He never graduated.Except for the fact that in one episode he became an Engineer after graduating college.He is a Nuclear Power Plant Engineer... But seems to have no common sense... I mean less than Sheldon Cooper.Technically, he is a safety inspector. And he got the job by showing up at the plant the first day! (~Simpsons nerd away!)
Never watched the lost episodes did you...
Joan of Arc, Boudica, Atalanta, Hippolyta, Penthesilea, Catherine of Aragorn, Margaret of Anjou, Æthelfleda, Tamar, Emilia Plater, Fu Hao, and many other great women warriors would like to discuss your assertion that women wouldn't fight.1st level adventurers against goblin bards, warriors and rangers?
1st level adventurers with half the HP of the Commoner?
I dont think the adventurers would win either.
As far as 10 goblins with a village of 60 to 200 people? You really think ALL those people as going to fight?
1/3 would be women, 1/3 children of the 1/3 that would be fighting able 20% would be elderly.
REALLY, they all live in that Town?
Now the goblins are REALLY in trouble.
(None of those women count as 'commoners' either)
How about Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley then, or Margaret Corbin both replaced their deceased husbands in battle during the Revolutionary War. They both certainly qualify as commoners. And all the women that fought off attacks in the American West.
My point still stands that woman are just as capable of fighting as the men, in some cases more so.
for arguments sake, all you are doing is HELP proving my point, that a village would be even MORE full of commoners able to fight off goblins if they all leveled like that just according to age.
However statistically speaking, 2/3 of any given population are generally not combatants, so for every woman than picks up a pitch fork, there is likely a man who is too old, or too cowardly to fight.
So statistically speaking, the numbers would be the same, even if you intermingled women into the fighting ranks.
but if you want to bring out every man and woman to fight with clubs and scythes, yes...the tow is likely to either a) not need adventurers, or b) need much higher level ones than 1st level!
He once fought Mike Tyson. (or some caricature thereof) His Strength isn't likely to be 8, and his Con is definitely higher than that. He got to the title fight by being simply too tough for his opponents to knock out, and then easily knocking them over once they were exhausted from hitting him.
Didn't you once stat him on DF! ?
Yup. That's exactly why. I'm going off of precedent.[...]
And that's why I threw out the "if x was actually y, then..." clause.
Fair enough.
Sure. and old farmer brown WOULDNT be a 7-10 hit dice creature, hed be 1-3.
Using previous examples from above of women he fought off this or that or for example int he settling of the american west, Indian Raids. You didnt just sit idly by and wait for the indians to take your horses, food and everything else... you at least TRIED to fight them off.
Those who were ill equiped to do so (1-3 level commoners) ended up dying at the end of an arrow or tomahawk, those who were successful and came prepared (7-10th level) kept their stuff.... no one was very successful in waiting for the US government to come along and do something, they were on their own.
Likewise, from the indian point of view. Here is sit with my wigwams and sqaws, the warriors are out with geronimo on the war path, here comes a raiding party of blue coats. Did some of those villages fall to blue coats?
YUP
Did some of them meet up with 7-10 HD "commoners" uh huh... his name was Custer, and he thought he was going to kick some butt. He had with him ALL professional warriors, maybe even some rangers and fighters. Were there warriors still in camp when custer attacked? Yep. but most of them were not there at the time, Instead custer got scalped by a pile of commoners.
Had the indians just sat around and waited for the main body of warriors to return to them and "help" them they would have been corpses and Custers story would be quite different than it is today.
Old Farmer brown does not = 7th level commoner.
How about Mary Ludwig Hays McCauley then, or Margaret Corbin both replaced their deceased husbands in battle during the Revolutionary War. They both certainly qualify as commoners. And all the women that fought off attacks in the American West.
My point still stands that woman are just as capable of fighting as the men, in some cases more so.
for arguments sake, all you are doing is HELP proving my point, that a village would be even MORE full of commoners able to fight off goblins if they all leveled like that just according to age.
However statistically speaking, 2/3 of any given population are generally not combatants, so for every woman than picks up a pitch fork, there is likely a man who is too old, or too cowardly to fight.
So statistically speaking, the numbers would be the same, even if you intermingled women into the fighting ranks.
but if you want to bring out every man and woman to fight with clubs and scythes, yes...the tow is likely to either a) not need adventurers, or b) need much higher level ones than 1st level!
The villagers need adventurers, not to protect their town when it is attacked, although they would certainly help. They need adventurers to go out and kill or drive off the Goblin tribe that keeps raiding their village.
The village is also going to take casualties from the Goblins, so they really don't want to have to fight off the Goblins themselves. Plus how is this village going to pay the adventurers to hang around the village, not contributing, until the Goblin's next raid?
Yes but by the time you get goblins to challenge a village full of 7 HD humans, youve got a major issue for 1st level adventurers.
IF you keep the goblins simple... like 1st level warriors, theyd stay so far away from the town because the 11HD grandma would kick their butts with her broom.
Back in the PF playtest, cutting off NPC classes at ten levels was mentioned by a Paizo staffer as something that would make sense. That didn't happen, but note the NPC Codex explicitly only shows NPC class examples out to 10th level, and the GMG has no examples of high-level commoners (even if it does have some high-level aristocrats and warriors).
So, yeah, the rules allow for a 15th-level commoner. But that doesn't mean it makes sense. It means we've got a table that was created for 3rd edition D&D and kept for compatibility.
doesn't remove the fact that a 7th level commoner (for no real reason to be that level) is still billy bad ass. and leveling them all by age? T'would be crazy it t'would.
But isn't a 7th level NPC class supposed to be somewhere from 1/2 to 1/4 of a PC class?
Like a 7th level Commoner i equal in combat effectiveness to a level 3-4 Rogue at best.
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I'm coming into this conversation late, but there was a documentary a couple years ago called 'Jiro Dreams of Sushi' which is about a really famous Sushi chef in japan who has dreamed of making the perfect sushi for his whole life. At 85 he's spent years working as a rice cooker before he decided he was ready to move on to the next step of it. He talks about everything in life being about honing your craft to an amazing level.
Jiro Ono: Once you decide on your occupation... you must immerse yourself in your work. You have to fall in love with your work. Never complain about your job. You must dedicate your life to mastering your skill. That's the secret of success... and is the key to being regarded honorably.
You have a farmer with that sort of ideal and you have the high level commoner.
I could see a 7th Level Commoner would be a Middle Aged Farmer or Merchant who mainly has to deal with Children stealing from them. Like the farmer from The Fellowship of the Rings that Merry & Pippin run from.
If the commoner gets enough xp by farming or spinning wool to hit 7th level by age 40, just think what levels your average orc should be. Even if they don't live past 30, a typical orc camp would be packed with some fairly tough cookies. 5th level Warrior would be pretty normal.
IMC, commoners don't get past about 3rd level without multiclassing into a real NPC class like Warrior, Expert, Yeoman, Professional or Bloke.
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Yeoman & Bloke?
I level them by age. My base line assumptions are as follows for my campaign world. This is for humans, not longer lived races.
+1 level = 10 years past starting age.
Highly ambitious (also high danger areas) = 1 level per 5 years.
Less ambitious (also low danger areas) = 1 level per 20 years.
So you've got most folks in their mid-20s as 2nd level, right on up to your 8th level 80 year old coot.
I posted about this over here on DF. Including stats for my 80 year old coot.
But isn't a 7th level NPC class supposed to be somewhere from 1/2 to 1/4 of a PC class?
Like a 7th level Commoner i equal in combat effectiveness to a level 3-4 Rogue at best.
Well effectiveness isn't the issue really, just that a 7th level commoner has 7 HD and a 3 BAB. so this guy could have up to 42 hp.
IF everyone in Town that's 30-40 years old is in this kind of shape, they aren't getting terrorized by goblins, they'd kick their tails in through their noses.
Which doesn't really leave room for the starting adventuring party, who on average has 8 hp and a 0 BAB. Heck the commoners would kick the PC's tail in too!
As for ORCs, they fight each other too, so even though their natural life span may go beyond 30, their actual life span isn't very long, due to violence, so they don't live long enough to advance far in level, before someone else ambitious kills them in their sleep or a drunken stupor. Such is the life of a CE monster.
Commoner Vs. a Rogue.
The rogue isn't going to have more feats than the commoner. a wash.
the rogue will have more skills than the commoner by far.
The rogue will likely be better equipped than the farmer.
The rogue will have a +2 BAB. (hopefully) better stats and around 20 hp.
The commoner has twice the HP still and holds the upper hand with BAB in a toe to toe fight.
In a goblin raid, chances are the commoner is still going to do better than the rogue as far as driving them off.
I mean if you are comparing commoners and rogues of equal level this isn't true, but heck 7th vs. 3-4... HD are going to win out.
What really separates the PCs would be their better stats (usually)
If the commoner has 13,12,11,10,10, 9
The PC will likely have 15,14,13,12,11,10
So let's say that's an elf rogue at 3rd level:
S14 D17 C10 I15 W10 Ch11
His feats are TWF and Weapon Fineese
He's wearing leather armor and has a masterwork rapier and dagger.
His AC is 15 his HP are 15
his twf to hit stat are +5/+5
the commoner is Human (the most common)
His stats are
S14 D12 C15 I13 W12 Ch11
adjusted for race and middle age.
He has 5 feats. He has enough to have worn armor and carried a shield and weapon when he was conscripted to fight off longshanks once... and survived.
So since he knows the goblins are coming (just like the rogue)
he's wearing leather armor, his shield and his spear
His AC is 15
His attack with his spear is 5
His HP are 49
Even at level 3 the rogue isn't better than the commoner at fighting off the goblins.
At level 1 he might as well tend the sheep while the commoner wades off to defend the town!
which brings back the original point, HOW would a commoner get to this level? If it was just age based 1st level adventurers wouldnt have a business!
I level them by age. My base line assumptions are as follows for my campaign world. This is for humans, not longer lived races.
+1 level = 10 years past starting age.
Highly ambitious (also high danger areas) = 1 level per 5 years.
Less ambitious (also low danger areas) = 1 level per 20 years.So you've got most folks in their mid-20s as 2nd level, right on up to your 8th level 80 year old coot.
I posted about this over here on DF. Including stats for my 80 year old coot.
You know, I never really think of the longer lived races being commoners, they are around SO long I would think they DO something else, if only by accident.