Goblin Squad Member
|
Since the challenge involved with harvesting will increase over time (and assuredly so will the reward), I imagine you only harvest what you are able to with what you have. Unlike other MMOs that try to make all content available to everyone, they are really setting up PfO to require teamwork and social interaction.
Of course, even with no friends, one is always encouraged to create contracts to hire however many guards they want/can afford.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
They have said some small camps (or individuals gathering nodes) will be harvestable solo, but for most actual harvesting camps you would need to have more guards there to guard against NPC mobs and/or PC bandits. You would either have to hire them yourself, find volunteers, or be part of a larger group to successfully pull this off. Be part of a larger guild as that would probably be the easiest solution.
If you are determined to go solo, expect the occasional setback, as bandits will pick you off once discovered out in the wild all by your lonesome.
Short discussion about resource camps copied from Reddit:
http://player.vimeo.com/video/56173981
I'm hoping there'll be guard CCs and the like.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
He's not asking if you have to, he's asking if there will actually BE any players ready to work as guards at any given time.
I'd certainly hope so, or else farming stuff could get quite difficult.
I presume CC and settlements might have an easy time if they put their minds to it, as they can just get some guildmates together to handle it.
I'd like to see CCs pop up that focus just on guarding places, but we'll see. I'd assume if there's too many bandits and thieves around, eventually prices will go up high enough that guards will get a reasonable wage.
Given all players are on one server, and if we got around as many players as Eve, I'd assume they'll be enough people around that it'll happen.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There needs to be NPC guards / hirelings available. Players will not want to serve as guards unless there is a reasonable expectation of attack. You are not going to find players willing to sit there and babysit camps in low escalation areas with infrequent PVP. Guarding something requires you are actually there to do something in-case of an attack. Who wants to sit there with the knowledge that in all likelyhood they are there for no reason? But you are going to want guards for that infrequent case.
There should be up to a set amount of NPC guards that are much weaker than players available. For more dangerous jobs you can hire an unlimited amount of stronger player guards who will actually be interested in a job with a high chance of combat.
Nobody here wants to play Babysitting Online. Let the NPCs do the tedious jobs.
I'd say NPC guards should be unwilling to go too far from settlements. So in the more dangerous areas, you either go with pals or go alone.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I'd say NPC guards should be unwilling to go too far from settlements. So in the more dangerous areas, you either go with pals or go alone.
That's cool with me. Solo gatherers will make a ton of money as the price of stuff skyrockets. If the raw material is high than the end product will be high.
I really do hope the current trend on forums continues in regards to "protecting the bandits". Every bit of difficulty you provide to my competition the better I say! My twin was going to be a crafter but I am leaning towards a full stealth gatherer that is always under the "Traveler" flag. Sure I'll get popped every now and then by a bandit but when they go to market to buy potions I get to put them over the barrel on the raw materials. Oh and they will need to go to market at some point everyone will.
So I say keep making it harder for harvesters and crafters. Make it so hard no one wants to do it. This will mean prices for simple items are sky high and people like me can "win" at the true PvP...your wallet.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
There needs to be NPC guards / hirelings available. Players will not want to serve as guards unless there is a reasonable expectation of attack. You are not going to find players willing to sit there and babysit camps in low escalation areas with infrequent PVP. Guarding something requires you are actually there to do something in-case of an attack. Who wants to sit there with the knowledge that in all likelyhood they are there for no reason? But you are going to want guards for that infrequent case.
There should be up to a set amount of NPC guards that are much weaker than players available. For more dangerous jobs you can hire an unlimited amount of stronger player guards who will actually be interested in a job with a high chance of combat.
Nobody here wants to play Babysitting Online. Let the NPCs do the tedious jobs.
Harvesting "camps" will cause PvE mobs to spawn in waves. The longer the camp survives the harder/bigger the mob spawn, the better the harvested material...and hopefully the better the loot from mobs. I imagine hired guards get to keep what they kill in addition to receiving their contract pay.
Sounds like fun to me.
Harvesting "camps" will cause PvE mobs to spawn in waves. The longer the camp survives the harder/bigger the mob spawn, the better the harvested material...and hopefully the better the loot from mobs. I imagine hired guards get to keep what they kill in addition to receiving their contract pay.Sounds like fun to me.
That does sound like fun. And it suggests an interesting scenario: wandering warriors who see an established camp and ask permission to hang around and help kill the mobs. So you have three groups: the trusted hired guards/clanmates, the gatherers themselves, and the newcomers who may or may not be planning treachery.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
What I'm looking at is NPC support to flesh out smaller groups. I'm sure there will be times when thre arent enough PCs available. If you've found a good harvesting area but can seem to get enough PCs to make a decent guard force, will there be NPC guard available. I'm not just talking about solo stuff.
If you want to go into dangerous areas, get friends. NPCs should not be available wherever a merchant goes to protect him from the horrors of socializing.
The most I can see is maybe being able to hire one or two low-levelled NPC guards, and even that doesn't feel right. If a merchant can't look after himself or get the help the game intended for him to get, there's no reason for the game to enable him. He should stay closer to settlements, like I said above.
I'm not saying there's no place for NPC guards, but they should be like wardens--only available in the safer, lower-profit areas.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Honestly I see this as something companies could do.
So you hire company We Guard your Harvesting. Because they are taking all the risk they get 45% of all normal materials harvested and 30% of all rare materials harvested. For that fee they will provide a rotation of guards for you came that will be there at all times. In addition they will ensure that at least 10 more guards can quickly reach the site within 5 minutes at all times.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Well, for one thing, there will only be one server. Everyone will be playing in the same world, so chances are that there will be someone who will want the guard duty. It won't be boring because while there may not be a large threat of other player raiding your harvesters, harvesters will attract sandworms... er monsters. The longer the harvesting goes on, the more dangerous the swarms will become. This is where people who want to PvE will get most of their content until we start seeing more module like dungeons down the road.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Well, for one thing, there will only be one server. Everyone will be playing in the same world, so chances are that there will be someone who will want the guard duty. It won't be boring because while there may not be a large threat of other player raiding your harvesters, harvesters will attract sandworms... er monsters. The longer the harvesting goes on, the more dangerous the swarms will become. This is where people who want to PvE will get most of their content until we start seeing more module like dungeons down the road.
Paralyze/sleep spell them in case you need them as extra defense against attack?
Or just lead the monsters towards the nearest bandits?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Paralyze/sleep spell them in case you need them as extra defense against attack?
Or just lead the monsters towards the nearest bandits?
I don't expect many long term crowd control abilities in game as there is a PvP focus and no one likes to play a statue.
And I'm pretty sure kiting monster to other players is considered griefing by the devs and they are making AI only follow and attack their target, and walk past other non-engaged players.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
There needs to be NPC guards / hirelings available. Players will not want to serve as guards unless there is a reasonable expectation of attack. You are not going to find players willing to sit there and babysit camps in low escalation areas with infrequent PVP. Guarding something requires you are actually there to do something in-case of an attack. Who wants to sit there with the knowledge that in all likelyhood they are there for no reason? But you are going to want guards for that infrequent case.
There should be up to a set amount of NPC guards that are much weaker than players available. For more dangerous jobs you can hire an unlimited amount of stronger player guards who will actually be interested in a job with a high chance of combat.
Nobody here wants to play Babysitting Online. Let the NPCs do the tedious jobs.
Harvesting "camps" will cause PvE mobs to spawn in waves. The longer the camp survives the harder/bigger the mob spawn, the better the harvested material...and hopefully the better the loot from mobs. I imagine hired guards get to keep what they kill in addition to receiving their contract pay.
Sounds like fun to me.
My understanding is this is tied to the escalation cycle in a hex. If you are in an unclaimed or barely populated hex then this is very true. If you are in a highly populated hex then resistance should be light to non-existent.
Otherwise what is the point of dealing with the escalation cycle?
If camps in those hexes have no guards a brand new character with the stealth skill can bring production to a halt. You had best believe this will be done frequently between warring factions. Hire newbs with stealth to harrassment enemy production. If there are NPC guards or the workers themselves fight back, then it will take orgainized raiding parties, which is the way you want it.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I was under the impression that the most valuable resources would only be able to be gathered from wilderness hexes. As hexes become more civilized, resources dry up. You could have untended harvesting, but it wouldn't be very profitable. Since the best raw materials are in the wild were monsters will spawn to attack harvesters, there will be a need for guards.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
And I'm pretty sure kiting monster to other players is considered griefing by the devs and they are making AI only follow and attack their target, and walk past other non-engaged players.
Probably though some may see it as "clever tactics when outgunned and outnumbered".
I suppose you could lead the bandits to the monsters.
Overall, failing using such "tricky/dubious tactics" I must say the PvP possibilities for good players who are not out bounty hunting seem to be:
a) If you overpower the bandits you have a safe but boring journey and nothing happens at all.
b) If the bandits overpower you then you die (or maybe give up all your money in SAD).
Not overly fun PvP experience for non bandits really.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
One obvious difference between how people are viewing this is whether a harvesting camp will be a long term structure. Specifically because guarding it would be ridiculous, I had envisioned a harvesting expedition as being similar to a raid in other games, 2-6 hours...from setup to wipe/retreat based entirely upon how long you are able to hold it.
And as others mentioned, camps in wilderness hexes will spawn bigger mobs and have bigger rewards.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I would imagine NPC guards would be much the same as drones in EVE are, they are essentially the same.
If there were only PC guards, I don't see enough people willing to pay that or do that for it to be viable. Sure for a big, lucrative operation maybe, but not a small remote area one.
PC guards would likely ask for as much gold as the occasional bandit you run into will take from you.
Again think of EVE Online. How often have you traveled through low sec, and not come across any pirate gate camps?
a) If you overpower the bandits you have a safe but boring journey and nothing happens at all.b) If the bandits overpower you then you die (or maybe give up all your money in SAD).
Not overly fun PvP experience for non bandits really.
So hang on. If the bandits defeat you, they have fun, but if you defeat the bandit, it's all dull and dreary?
Are bandits just inherently boring to kill or something? Or are guards just extra-fun to decapitate? I'm not sure I understand why bandits have fun killing people for money and guards don't.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
a) If you overpower the bandits you have a safe but boring journey and nothing happens at all.b) If the bandits overpower you then you die (or maybe give up all your money in SAD).
Not overly fun PvP experience for non bandits really.
So hang on. If the bandits defeat you, they have fun, but if you defeat the bandit, it's all dull and dreary?
Are bandits just inherently boring to kill or something? Or are guards just extra-fun to decapitate? I'm not sure I understand why bandits have fun killing people for money and guards don't.
Oh ..you are missing the point.
Of course defeating bandit bands will be fun. However unless you are actually out to catch bandits by hunting them or by deliberately appearing deceptively weak you will never get the opportunity to defeat them.
The basic comments bandied around by bandit types are:
1. You should enjoy the challenge of us Bandits.
2. If you are equal or stronger than us we will slip away and you can go unmolested.
3. If we are far stronger and outnumber you, we will attack with no mercy unless you pay us all your gold.
Ah, see, you said guards wouldn't have fun if they 'overpowered' the bandits. Overpowered = defeated.
Your point seems to be that the bandits will not attack large groups, which makes sense. However, the guards can still enjoy the occasional PvE encounter.
In addition, merchants and guard CCs alike will want to only use as much manpower as possible, meaning they might still leave room for a bandit attack if they miscalculate. Or if they decide it's worth a little gamble--after all, the game's no fun without a bit of risk.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Ah, see, you said guards wouldn't have fun if they 'overpowered' the bandits. Overpowered = defeated.
Your point seems to be that the bandits will not attack large groups, which makes sense. However, the guards can still enjoy the occasional PvE encounter.
In addition, merchants and guard CCs alike will want to only use as much manpower as possible, meaning they might still leave room for a bandit attack if they miscalculate. Or if they decide it's worth a little gamble--after all, the game's no fun without a bit of risk.
true
What would be good is if there ended up being slower but "safe" routes and faster but "risky" routes giving merchants some options in how much risk to take.
It would also make it more interesting if you could choose to go lightly defended but fast and try and outrun the bandits, however my impression is people are currently demanding the ability to automatically stop travelers in their tracks and deliver a SAD.
That is all fine if they have established a hideout and erected barricades, but otherwise seems to stack things excessively in the bad guys favor.
I agree, I think bandits might be having it a biiiit too easy right now. I'm hoping the presence of player-built alliances will force them to the outskirts, where they belong.
Being a bandit shouldn't be unpleasant, but if every encounter with a merchant goes as planned, where's the fun? I'm looking forward to watching over-confident raiders pick fights with merchants who can afford to hire entire organizations to get revenge. I can see subtle operations being carried out to lure the bandits out to get attacked, for instance.
The thing is, if bandits get too comfortable with their targets, something is horribly wrong. Those targets can and will fight back however they can, and if you keep causing trouble in the same subhex for too long, expect some mercenaries to show up sooner or later.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The basic comments bandied around by bandit types are:
1. You should enjoy the challenge of us Bandits.
2. If you are equal or stronger than us we will slip away and you can go unmolested.
3. If we are far stronger and outnumber you, we will attack with no mercy unless you pay us all your gold.
I prefer option 4. You appear to guarded by a token force, bandits attack, and then the rest of the guards with stealth come out of hiding and slaughter the bandits.
Stealth: it's not just for bandits.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
There needs to be NPC guards / hirelings available. Players will not want to serve as guards unless there is a reasonable expectation of attack. You are not going to find players willing to sit there and babysit camps in low escalation areas with infrequent PVP. Guarding something requires you are actually there to do something in-case of an attack. Who wants to sit there with the knowledge that in all likelyhood they are there for no reason? But you are going to want guards for that infrequent case.
There should be up to a set amount of NPC guards that are much weaker than players available. For more dangerous jobs you can hire an unlimited amount of stronger player guards who will actually be interested in a job with a high chance of combat.
Nobody here wants to play Babysitting Online. Let the NPCs do the tedious jobs.
If we call it 'babysitting' and rag new players about it, then certainly it will be less popular than it could be.
For brand new players who need to earn money, guard duty might be a good option, especially if it pays well relative to their other options.
Since those other options will be to run around looking for nodes to throw a pick at and run back to town to sell your sacks of rock, guard duty (with the possibility of a little action versus appropriately scaled Mobs or possibly PC interlopers) might be a good option. Guard duty may well become a popular way to progress and make a profit without spending all your time crafting, and would be a break from sweeping the hexes around a settlement looking for escalations.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...
My understanding is this is tied to the escalation cycle in a hex. If you are in an unclaimed or barely populated hex then this is very true. If you are in a highly populated hex then resistance should be light to non-existent.
Otherwise what is the point of dealing with the escalation cycle?
If camps in those hexes have no guards a brand new character with the stealth skill can bring production to a halt. You had best believe this will be done frequently between warring factions. Hire newbs with stealth to harrassment enemy production. If there are NPC guards or the workers themselves fight back, then it will take orgainized raiding parties, which is the way you want it.
It is unlikely that resource points near a heavily populated hex will be appropriate resource harvesting sites anyway, Andius. If it is that close to town you don't need to harvest a cartload and then convey it with a wagon under guard, you would just run back into the settlement with a sackload and sell it. Rinse/ repeat.
But the valuable stuff you will want to build a resource harvesting opration for will likely be pretty remote, in sparsely populated areas prone to escalation events.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
People needs to become organized and band together, that is the only way to fight the bandits.
Divided we will fall and together we will prosper.
Did I just see a large patriotic flag fluttering behind you and hear stirring anthems play as you spoke?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Did I just see a large patriotic flag fluttering behind you and hear stirring anthems play as you spoke?People needs to become organized and band together, that is the only way to fight the bandits.
Divided we will fall and together we will prosper.
A flag? Yes, I see a white... symbol on light green.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
A flag? Yes, I see a white... symbol on light green.Did I just see a large patriotic flag fluttering behind you and hear stirring anthems play as you spoke?People needs to become organized and band together, that is the only way to fight the bandits.
Divided we will fall and together we will prosper.
Macau? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Macau? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia?A flag? Yes, I see a white... symbol on light green.Did I just see a large patriotic flag fluttering behind you and hear stirring anthems play as you spoke?People needs to become organized and band together, that is the only way to fight the bandits.
Divided we will fall and together we will prosper.
I'm thinking of something more like a symbol of Nylarhotep, a Cthuloid head, or the Elder Sign.
If you want to go into dangerous areas, get friends. NPCs should not be available wherever a merchant goes to protect him from the horrors of socializing.
The most I can see is maybe being able to hire one or two low-levelled NPC guards, and even that doesn't feel right. If a merchant can't look after himself or get the help the game intended for him to get, there's no reason for the game to enable him. He should stay closer to settlements, like I said above.
I'm not saying there's no place for NPC guards, but they should be like wardens--only available in the safer, lower-profit areas.
First off, I've got to say that I can't wait to get into the game and see how all this plays out! It sounds like it'll be a blast!
I believe that the Devs have said that you can hire NPC guards. We don't have much more detail then that, but being as you can hire NPC guards for caravans, I imagine hiring them for a mining op will be possible.i can't speak to their effectiveness though. I'm leaning toward Bluddwolfs thought that NPC guards will be more like drones in Eve.
As far as guard duty being too boring, I agree with Being that it will provide a safer way to make money, explore and have a chance at loot for newer players so it could well become a sought after position. Within our guild we will treat large harvesting operations like mining ops are treated in Eve. Something conducted by the guild to benefit the settlement and the guild as well as its members. Thinking about it like a raid isn't far from the mark really.
Is going to be a blast! :D
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Once my PC has enough skills to be an effective "Wizard", I plan to hire him out as a body guard for good and neutral aligned harvesters and merchants. I know others who will do the same, even some who will likely do it for free, so I think a blended NPC and PC force might be possible. Certainly, as has been pointed out, the further you go into the wilderness, for higher value resources, the less likely you will be able to hire on NPC guards. This will undoubtedly lead to many players hiring out as guards for a piece of the rewards that resource will bring in in any market.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
Macau? Pakistan? Saudi Arabia?A flag? Yes, I see a white... symbol on light green.Did I just see a large patriotic flag fluttering behind you and hear stirring anthems play as you spoke?People needs to become organized and band together, that is the only way to fight the bandits.
Divided we will fall and together we will prosper.
I have tried roleplaying with you but you just fail at it.
And only Forrest Gump type people writes IC and OOC in front of every sentence, people with a good head on their shoulders figures it out anyway... too bad that you didn't.
I have tried roleplaying with you but you just fail at it.And only Forrest Gump type people writes IC and OOC in front of every sentence, people with a good head on their shoulders figures it out anyway... too bad that you didn't.
Wow, that's incredibly patronizing. I didn't get you were "roleplaying", either. At most, you were making a reference and he was (probably comically) taking it literally.
Are the arguments here so dull and civil that we have to insult the people who didn't do anything to us?
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I was under the impression that the most valuable resources would only be able to be gathered from wilderness hexes. As hexes become more civilized, resources dry up. You could have untended harvesting, but it wouldn't be very profitable. Since the best raw materials are in the wild were monsters will spawn to attack harvesters, there will be a need for guards.
If it works that way I am guessing that what you will see is camps in populated hexes that mass produce resources like iron, birch wood, fish, and grain, and then people venturing out into the wilderness hexes to gain mithril, mahogany, etc.
Think about it. Why would farms, fisheries, etc. in more unsettled hexes be more profitable? They might do better in more rural hexes but a farms are things passed down from generation to generation. Not something you go and harvest "scarce plants" in, in the middle of an orc controlled hex.
This all has a lot to do with how much of the map is settled though. I would imagine that 90%+ of the map will be claimable hexes.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
I was under the impression that the most valuable resources would only be able to be gathered from wilderness hexes. As hexes become more civilized, resources dry up. You could have untended harvesting, but it wouldn't be very profitable. Since the best raw materials are in the wild were monsters will spawn to attack harvesters, there will be a need for guards.If it works that way I am guessing that what you will see is camps in populated hexes that mass produce resources like iron, birch wood, fish, and grain, and then people venturing out into the wilderness hexes to gain mithril, mahogany, etc.
Think about it. Why would farms, fisheries, etc. in more unsettled hexes be more profitable? They might do better in more rural hexes but a farms are things passed down from generation to generation. Not something you go and harvest "scarce plants" in, in the middle of an orc controlled hex.
This all has a lot to do with how much of the map is settled though. I would imagine that 90%+ of the map will be claimable hexes.
The blogs clearly state the more remote the hex the better the ore quality and the more of it. Near settlements resources will be lower quality and the amount available may only warrant a small scale camp as it will run out quickly.
This make perfect sense. the stuff close to town has already been picked over.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
The blogs clearly state the more remote the hex the better the ore quality and the more of it. Near settlements resources will be lower quality and the amount available may only warrant a small scale camp as it will run out quickly.
This make perfect sense. the stuff close to town has already been picked over.
And nothing you just said contradicts what I just said.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
And nothing you just said contradicts what I just said.The blogs clearly state the more remote the hex the better the ore quality and the more of it. Near settlements resources will be lower quality and the amount available may only warrant a small scale camp as it will run out quickly.
This make perfect sense. the stuff close to town has already been picked over.
True
I was merely pointing out that even common stuff like iron is available in better quality and bigger amounts further out.
|
Goblin Squad Member
|
...
I have tried roleplaying with you but you just fail at it.And only Forrest Gump type people writes IC and OOC in front of every sentence, people with a good head on their shoulders figures it out anyway... too bad that you didn't.
...
Perhaps Forrest Gump-style RP practices would improve your success rate.