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Hi everyone. I recently played my first PFS game and I'm hooked. My only problem is that I'm very underwhelmed by the class I initially chose: a teleportation specialized wizard. I ran out of spells about an hour into the session, and spent the rest of the night missing things with my light crossbow. The rest of the group pretty much carried me through.
I've been told that there are very few PFS scenarios that have opportunities to rest and refresh spells, and that most casters rely on wands etc. to get things done. Given how weak Wizards are in all areas other than spell casting, it kind of kills the fun knowing that anyone with a high UMD can pretty much accomplish the same things, plus fulfill some additional function that I can't.
So I'm going to retrain my character before I hit second level and I need some advice on a new class. Before anyone says it, yes, I know I should play what's most fun: what I enjoy most is being valuable to the rest of the group. Beyond, that, all I know is that I still want some kind of arcane caster. The blasting isn't the important thing -- I want to focus more on control and/or buffing.
Alchemists look like fun, but the splash damage on bombs worries me. Summoners also look like fun -- more fun actually -- but I get the sense that a lot of people don't like having them at the table. I'm still relatively new to the game too, and I'm worried about biting off more than I can chew rules-wise. My third option would be a bard with maxed UMD. I'm not in love with the whole magic musician thing though, so I'd have to look for an archetype that downplays this.
Anyway, I'd appreciate everyone's opinions.
Ahh not having time to rest can really suck, but if you are wanting to cast spells have you looked into a witch? I know they are not casting spells but the hexes are a one use per enemy kinda thing most of the time. of the three otions, alch, bard or summoner, I have played two, bard adn alch. I had a blast with my alchemist, forgive the pun, small amount of spells to be able to be using but you can make most of those into potions. The bombs can be dangerous for your team, but i use them at the start of a battle and then help with a llittle front line fighting with a sheild extract runnign and if things are goign bad drop the mutagen for some good fun, and alchemists have UMD, the Bard I played was fun but he was in a much more of a supportive roll then i think most people play them, i guess for me i liked the alchemist over the bard but it depends on your play style as well. Hope this helps
Since you just completed your first PFS session you now probably have a couple hundred gold at least to spend.
If you want to keep playing the wizard, buy some lvl 1 scrolls of some of your damage and/or control spells. They're cheap, and they'll keep you casting.
Wands will be next...a Wand of two of your favorite lvl 1 spells that qualify.
At that point, you'll have another level or two under your belt and probably enough gold to buy a pearl of power or two in order to really keep you casting.
I'm not saying this is the super-perfect ideal method for Conjuration/Teleportation optimal min/max hurbleburblegromph super character durphburph, but once you start accruing gold, you can help to solve your casting woes.
The first session is always the hardest, since you're trying to prepare for everything with 1 level and 150gp. Now, you've got a bit more to work with.
remember: cantrips are repeatable.
Summoners are a very complex class.
Magi seem interesting, though not done much with them.
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Thank you everyone for the encouraging replies.
If you want to keep playing the wizard, buy some lvl 1 scrolls of some of your damage and/or control spells. They're cheap, and they'll keep you casting.
That's my problem with the Wizard. If I need magic items to perform my class functions, why not take another class with UMD and double my utility?
Ahh not having time to rest can really suck, but if you are wanting to cast spells have you looked into a witch?
I haven't, now that you mention it. I'm not sure I understand how the class plays at first glance, but I'll spend a little more time looking it over. I feel like I should see someone else playing one before I commit.
The bombs can be dangerous for your team, but i use them at the start of a battle and then help with a llittle front line fighting with a sheild extract runnign and if things are goign bad drop the mutagen for some good fun, and alchemists have UMD ...i guess for me i liked the alchemist over the bard but it depends on your play style as well. Hope this helps
I think I'm going to go with the Alchemist -- in particular, the Grenadier archetype from the PFS guide. You can't brew potions in PFS anyway, and a lot of the Feats needed for bomb throwing would also help with a longbow. When I'm out of extracts and bombs, I can always start shooting tanglefoot bags etc. I didn't realize until just now that there's a discovery to control the AOE on bombs -- that pretty much takes care of my biggest reservation about the class. I also like the idea of being a bit of a skill monkey on top of everything else.
Summoners are a very complex class.
Yeah -- I feel like I have a good grasp on the rules for a beginner, but I'm still a beginner. I do think I'd have fun with a Summoner (and I have a great idea for an Eidolon), but for my first time out I should probably stick to something with fewer moving parts.
Thanks again!
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I actually suggest sticking with your wizard idea, and just changing your approach a bit.
You mentioned running out of spells and just "missing with your crossbow". Well, might some of those ranged attacks have hit if they were touch attacks instead of regular AC? Prepare a lot of acid splash or ray of frost (which you can cast an unlimited number of times per day) while you're still at low levels.
Remember, every caster struggles with resource management at low levels - it's not because of the class you picked.
I don't know what types of spells you prepared, but as a general piece of advice, blasting just doesn't work at 1st level. Try sticking with control spells like grease or color spray, which can end an encounter with a single spell slot.
Even if you spend rounds 2-5 casting ray of frost, nobody's going to say you weren't contributing if round 1 was a grease that landed two baddies on their backs for -4 AC against the party's melee folks.
Also, whoever said that stuff about wands gave you the wrong idea. Yeah, some folks carry wands of useful 1st-level utility spells (like endure elements or protection from evil, for example), but it doesn't go much beyond that. Remember that in PFS you can't buy a partially-charged wand or a wand at higher than minimum caster level unless it appears on a chronicle sheet. That means nobody's running around buying wands of fireball 5 charge at a time. They wand a fireball wand? They're paying 11,250gp for a full 50 charges, most of which will go to waste due to not being used before the character's career is over. And I'll tell you from experience, people just don't spend their money that way.
Lastly, I suggest that your arcane bond be a bonded item rather than a familiar. It gets you an extra spell per day, it gets better as you level (since that extra spell can be of any level you can cast), it adds versatility (which is more valuable in PFS than in many home games), and it gets you half-price enchantments in the otherwise crafting-free PFS campaign.
My advice to you is to have another go with your wizard, make sure you prepare an offensive cantrip at low levels, use a bonded item, and be patient through the low levels. It'll be rewarding in the end. :)
Oh, one last thing: this might be helpful to you.
What Jiggy said. ALL wizards have a hard time starting out. They either run out of spells, or don't have the right ones prepared, etc.
Buy some scrolls of spells you think you might need, and if you don't use them after a few sessions, you can copy them into your spellbook. If you use a bonded item, they're always available in an emergency.
slotting acid splash OR ray of frost, if wanting to do damage (preference on splash, unless resistance cause of SR)
flare
some kind of light source, if you dont have low/dark vision.
ghost sound can be chuckle-worthy...
and perhaps choose to specialize in some class of magic. gives you another spell slot, and extra tricks
also depends on what kinda caster (not just for wizard) that you wanna be.
To the OP, I think you have a slightly simplified idea of just how easy the UMD skill is for characters to use.
It's not, especially at low levels.
Daze is another great 0level spell, useable at will.
And to the op, EVERYONE is gear dependent. That fighter needs a silver weapon to deal with werewolves, does he a) buy one, or b) remake his character?
It's a, because there are NO gear independent classes.
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Additional protip, you can improve ray of frost and acid splash with not terribly expensive alchemical focuses(as in not used up, usable forever), giving both a +1 damage.
Touch attack, ranged, infinite, 1d3+1. Not great, but you could be doing far worse.
EDIT: If you are an evocation specialized wizard, they qualify for the intense spells bonus, meaning you get +1 per 2 levels(minimum +1) on the damage! Now we're getting somewhere. Never have nothing to do again.
Also, the OP asked about Witches.
Just played my PFS Witch (Warlock? Witch-guy? hurbleburble) in his first session. Level 1, 150gp to spend, etc etc.
Essentially, I contributed with some decent skill rolls, some fun Taldan roleplaying...and pretty much just using the Evil Eye hex. I cast Detect Magic a few times, used Mage Armor and one Daze cast. That's about it. We got through the session and everyone had fun.
It's not what I had in mind for how I want to play the character...but now I'm over the hump, with 2pp to spend and about 600gp to invest into some gear, scrolls, etc.
And at level 2, with two more sessions, here comes the Slumber Hex and then I can just tell everything to go to sleep.
Daze is another great 0level spell, useable at will.
And to the op, EVERYONE is gear dependent. That fighter needs a silver weapon to deal with werewolves, does he a) buy one, or b) remake his character?
It's a, because there are NO gear independent classes.
Monk...
I don't know if acid splash would get buffed by the evoker's buff. it isnt an evocation.
If you love casters, and your concern is running out of spells, might I suggest Witch? You get to use each hex once per day per target. Slumber and Evil Eye are both very good! If you choose the Extra Hex feat, and Accursed Hex, on a human witch, you will have something to do almost every round. Later, you can learn cackle, then laugh at the misfortune of others for even more glee inspiring witchery!
My problem with conjuration focused wizards, is that they really come into their own at level 5, with the arrival of Summon Monster III. So half your career is a little less than stellar. A witch is so much more fun at levels 1-5, and ... well they rock.
Ahh not having time to rest can really suck, but if you are wanting to cast spells have you looked into a witch?I haven't, now that you mention it. I'm not sure I understand how the class plays at first glance, but I'll spend a little more time looking it over. I feel like I should see someone else playing one before I commit.
Also, the OP asked about Witches.
Just played my PFS Witch (Warlock? Witch-guy? hurbleburble) in his first session. Level 1, 150gp to spend, etc etc.Essentially, I contributed with some decent skill rolls, some fun Taldan roleplaying...and pretty much just using the Evil Eye hex. I cast Detect Magic a few times, used Mage Armor and one Daze cast. That's about it. We got through the session and everyone had fun.
It's not what I had in mind for how I want to play the character...but now I'm over the hump, with 2pp to spend and about 600gp to invest into some gear, scrolls, etc.
And at level 2, with two more sessions, here comes the Slumber Hex and then I can just tell everything to go to sleep.
+1
I dont get to play PFS due to location, but My group trys to play close to those rules. I played a level 1 witch to great effect. I took Sleep as my first hex, and evil eye with extra hex at level 1. If something made the save, I would use my spells.
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Hi everyone. I recently played my first PFS game and I'm hooked. My only problem is that I'm very underwhelmed by the class I initially chose: a teleportation specialized wizard. I ran out of spells about an hour into the session, and spent the rest of the night missing things with my light crossbow. The rest of the group pretty much carried me through.
That's why I went with an Evocation school wizard (so he could use the Force Dart ability and/or Rays of Frost instead of using a crossbow), notwithstanding the fact that he has Spell Focus (conjuration) and most of his attack spells are conjurations.
EDIT: If I had it to do over again, I might go with the Earth school from the APG instead; the Acid Cloud ability is pretty nifty (for a level 1 "pew-pew laser" kind of ability).
Fourth-ing the Witch suggestion. You'll never run out of useful actions, and you'll always be contributing to the group because Witches are simply the best debuffers around.
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I personally would go with a Human Sorcerer only if Crossblooded is allowed. If allowed go with Efreeti and Elemental Earth bloodlines. The combinations will allow u to convert any energy damaging spells into either fire or acid. Pick up primarily cold and electrical Ray and AoE spells. This will give u more versatility with ur blast spells and the reason to go with AoE spells like say Fireball is because it hits multiple targets and Ray spells is because they target Touch AC which s the lowest AC on most targets. Add in levels of Scout rogue and at level 8 rogue if u move at least 10ft u can make all ur Ray spells, including Ray of Frost and Jolt, deal Sneak Attack damage. Human btw for Favored Class Sorcerer to give the character a lot more spell options and off set the lack of spells known from Crossblooded.
If Crossblooded Sorcerer is not allowed then id highly suggest a Half-elf Alchemist with the Bramble Brewer and Grenadier archetype. Use the Grenadier's Martial Weapon Proficiency ability to obtain a finessable melee weapon and the Half-elf's Ancestral Arms alternative racial trait to get a 1handed gun preferably a pistol.
The reasons for the weapon choices is because all of ur attacks will run off Dex to hit and will give u options when u run out of bombs. When possible have a wizard cast a Permanency Daylight spell on ur melee weapon. The reason for this is to take advantage of the Bramble Brewer's fast healing from the mutagen and the light can easily be concealed by sheathing ur weapon when u dont need or want the light source active. Some feats to consider with the build is Weapon Finesse, Ranged Feats, and Quick Draw.
Discoveries to highly consider is Explosive Missile, Explosive Bomb, Extend Potion, Eternal Potion, Enhance Potion, Greater Mutagen, Grand Mutagen, Spontaneous Healing and Healing Touch. Explosive Missile to deal bomb damage on top of gun damage. Explosive Bomb to increase radius of splash damage and more importantly a 1d6 fire DoT, damage over time, to the target hit that does not go away until target takes a full round action to extinguish. Extend Potion, Eternal Potion, and Enhance Potion to use potions at ur alchemist level, double duration, and make 1 permanent (Displacement for 50% miss chance is best option for permanency). Spontaneous Healing and Healing Touch will rant u 5x alchemist level in rounds of fast healing 5.
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You mentioned running out of spells and just "missing with your crossbow". Well, might some of those ranged attacks have hit if they were touch attacks instead of regular AC? Prepare a lot of acid splash or ray of frost (which you can cast an unlimited number of times per day) while you're still at low levels.
True. There is that option. If I end up sticking with the wizard, I'll switch to a core Conjuror for the acid attack. When I initially built the character, it looked like a throwaway ability that I'd quickly outgrow. Now it seems like a must-have.
Remember, every caster struggles with resource management at low levels - it's not because of the class you picked.
You're right. Normally, I'm okay with paying my dues as a low level caster but I'm looking at a level cap of 12 in PFS. By the time I grow into the class, I'm half-way to retirement.
I don't know what types of spells you prepared, but as a general piece of advice, blasting just doesn't work at 1st level. Try sticking with control spells like grease or color spray, which can end an encounter with a single spell slot.
You guessed 2/3 of my memorized spells. I was really looking forward to doing exactly what you described. With both spells, the enemies made their saves. Bad luck, I know, but it did take some of the wind out of my sails. I may give it another go though.
And to the op, EVERYONE is gear dependent. That fighter needs a silver weapon to deal with werewolves, does he a) buy one, or b) remake his character?
I didn't mean to imply that I'm adverse to needing gear. Gear upgrades are part of the fun of building up a character. But I don't think your comparison really works; it'd be more like having a fighter run out of weapon swings half way through the second encounter of the night and needing to switch to alchemist's fire.
That's what you sign up for with a Wizard. I get that. It's really the structure of the PFS scenarios that I'm having a problem with, not the limitations of the class. I'm used to games with time gaps for resting -- I even made sure to pack a bedroll (with 9 STR, a big commitment). Without being able to recharge spells during play, my toolbox is a lot more limited than I expected it to be. I wanted utility from this character, but I didn't achieve that.
I'm not necessarily giving up -- but the PFS rules give me the option to switch up before 2nd level. After a disappointing session I think I should at least consider it while I can. I might still be able to make the Wizard work, but I'm going to need a new approach regardless of what class I settle on.
Anyway, thanks again for the replies. You've all given me a lot of things to consider. I've got two weeks before my next session, so I have time to tinker.
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True. There is that option. If I end up sticking with the wizard, I'll switch to a core Conjuror for the acid attack. When I initially built the character, it looked like a throwaway ability that I'd quickly outgrow. Now it seems like a must-have.
No, you don't need that ability. I'm talking about preparing a cantrip, which your spellbook includes automatically. No need to switch schools or anything. Just prep one slot of an offensive cantrip each day until you stop running out of spells (which does happen).
So for instance, say you're a solid 17-18 INT wizard at 1st level. Take a specialization school and a bonded item. So maybe you prep:
O-level:
acid splash, light, detect magic
1st-level:
grease, color spray, (insert bonus school spell here), and one spontaneous slot from your bonded item.
That's a 1st-level spell for each of four combats, and acid splash for subsequent rounds, regardless of which school you pick. But by 3rd level, you've doubled your number of (non-cantrip) spells per day. Now you're up to 2 spells of 1st- or 2nd-level per combat.
By the time you hit 3rd level, it will be very rare that you spend more time casting cantrips than "real" spells. By that time you could even have spent 2PP to get a wand of magic missile, so that even when you do need to plink away at a tough baddie, at least you don't miss.
I think your wizard will come into his own faster than you realize. :)
Trying to build the perfect PFS character at level 1 with 150gp is like those dreams where you are on sinking ship and there are six people with you and you only have five lifejackets to give them and no matter how you try to work it out you are always going to come up short on one person and they're going to drown and oh god I'm so sorry drowning person I tried to figure it out but there are six of you and only five lifejackets and oh man why can't I wake up
Of the casting classes that I have (Wizard, Oracle, Witch, Inquisitor, Bard), my experience has been that the witch is the hardest to use to full effect. There are quite a few scenarios is which the big hitter Hexes (Evil eye and sleep) just won't work. I would say that 1/4 of the scenarios I have played in with my witch have had mind-effect immune enemies.
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As a long time player of 35 years i would strongly suggest not going with spells that on saves they do nothing. Doing the math a while ago save spells for 1 dont work at high levels and to have any chance of them to occur u have to mid max ur casting stat meaning lease versatility in ur actions especially once u run out of spells and are in areas of anti-magic which do happen. Wizard from my experience at least has not been a positive one past 2.0. Sorcerer though has gotten much more beefy especially in Pathfinder if u play ur cards right. Best part of sorcerer is that u know all the spells u have on ur list and never needs to chose what spells to prepare. Combined with a Human Favored Class option u as a straight sorcerer will know 13 0 level spells, 8 1st and 2nd level spells, 7 3rd to 5th level spells, 6 6th to 8th level spells and 4 9th level spells. If u having a hard time choosing spells to make u versatile in most situations of combat u should play another class becasue caster is not ur shtick.
I am going to chime in one last time with summoner.
Summoner advantages:
1) Your eidolon will get to act almost ever round, careful though, you will have to go with the PFS 1/2 HD at level one, which is kinda squishy.
2) You get a lot of spells early (like haste as a second level spell);
3) your spells focus on buffing, which everyone appreciates. Just make sure to share the love with more than your eidolon.
4) Because you are a support caster, you can get away with a much lower (16 would be fine) Cha, freeing up a lot of stat points for other areas.
5) If you go Gnome or Halfling, you have a mount at level 1!
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Well Kazred, since you've been back to the thread you started a couple of times, I hope you'll be back yet again.
I always watch threads I start :)
As others have said, Wizards are weak at low levels. In PFS though, your party WILL appreciate you from level 5 onwards, and even before that, your grease that drops the Raging Ghast to the ground and allows the BSF's to pummel him into pulp will be total win.
Thanks for the encouragement. Right now, I'm not making any decisions. I have two more sessions before I have to commit to something, so it makes sense to playtest one or two other classes while I still can. I don't like playing too many characters at once, so I want the class to I settle on to be one that'll be satisfying all the way to level 12. You (and some others) have done a good job of making the case that a Wizard is worth the early pain -- at this point, it's as likely as not that I'll stick with it.
On the other hand, I'm now considering what role I really want to play in a group. After looking at the Alchemist a little more closely, it feels like a better Wizard/Rogue blend than the Bard. Ultimately, it's going to hinge on whether I want to be magical utility or more of a skill monkey. My second session will be as an Alchemist so I can get a taste of the class in action.
But, witch is another fun option, since Hexes can be cast every round, and extended with cackle.
Yeah, there's a lot of Witch love in this thread. I'm a little uncertain of the character from a role-play standpoint, but I am working up a Witch version of my character for my last level-one game.
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Enlarge person..Don't ever go out without that stuff(recommend bringing 5 scrolls per pfs scenario). I even stick it in my spring loaded wrist sheathes.
Nothing's better then enlarging the party fighter, then watching him clean up the mess while you sit at the back and drink coffee..I used to do that a lot - since I did not take either point blank/precise shot which sort of made shooting into melee a regular pain in the bum.
A lot of new wizards have problems with resource management. I play with a guy who is convinced wizards are useless because the one time he played a wizard he decided to sleep two orcs in the first encounter in which my ranger and the party fighter had already dropped the other two. He then spend the rest of the game complaining that the GM wouldn't let him sleep, due to an in game time restriction. He showed up to the next game with a rouge and has never gone back to the wizard. The point is, wizards at low levels need to be conservative with their spells. If the encounter can easily be handled by the fighting classes, then let them do it. If you sit back and cast acid splash or shoot your crossbow who cares if you only hit once. When you get to the BBEG the fighter will be thanking you for enlarge person, or a summoned flanking buddy using the aid action (+4 to hit!), which brings me to resource management topic 2: use buff and summons when you can't afford to loose spells. Buffs and summons always work. There is no save or attack roll to be made. If you only have a couple of level one spells, choose the ones that will always work. Having said all that, I would still check out the alchemist. It is a really fun class to play and rarely finds a situation where he won't be useful.
Witches are nasty in pfs. Mine is now level 8 and I commonly dont use my spells other than buff spells. There are a lot of mindless foes in pfs but misfortune is nasty and is not mind effecting.