I'm playing a Witch in my current Friday game and am running into an alignment conflict with my friend's Zen Archer Monk. I think he's either LG or LN, but either way he constantly comes to (thankfully verbal) blows with my N character's questionable methods. I regularly summon demons, use spells like "Dominate Person" or "Fleshworm Infestation" and he threatens to kill my character ICly. I don't really like PvP, but I feel that my Witch would take issue with this.
Basically, I want help preparing spells and items that will help me defend against a high saving throw, high AC ranged Monk with several magical bows. I figure some way to ruin his full attack would be best, and then suppress the magic on his Bow Of Wonder would help(Artifact level weapon that fires off a level 2-4 evocation spell once a turn).
He's unlikely to attack me, and I have no plans of attacking him, but I figure my witch would be wary of such threats.
The problem is that he has a bloated AC through Mage Armor(Wand), Barkskin(Qiggong), and a very good Wisdom and Dexterity, not to mention his naturally high saving throws and the fact he's a dwarf. We're both level 9, but I have an amulet that lets me cast one spell of a higher level or two more of my current highest level spells so I do have a distinct advantage with one 6th level spell. I have pretty good DC's(Int 24 with buffs) but still, he's a dwarf.
I seek not to KILL him, but just cripple him and survive the first two rounds of flurry of blows. My character also refuses to stop using those nefarious spells. It's what she does.
Next time you touch his character (several possible reasons why) just scar him. Depending on your level you could do various things to him. Next level you get major hexes which include the ice tomb, retribution (if you could force him into melee with a summoned creature), nightmares, etc. Until then you have the whole evil eye, misfortune. You could also use the charm hex on him next time he gets all uppity.
I regularly summon demons, use spells like "Dominate Person" or "Fleshworm Infestation"
Couldnt you summon Angels? Dominating an enemy is nothing to worry about. If you just walking around making Thralls then that would be problematic. Cant help you on Fleshworm infestation, its evil discriptor, but I think not acting evil would be a better way to get along.
I regularly summon demons, use spells like "Dominate Person" or "Fleshworm Infestation"Couldnt you summon Angels? Dominating an enemy is nothing to worry about. If you just walking around making Thralls then that would be problematic. Cant help you on Fleshworm infestation, its evil discriptor, but I think not acting evil would be a better way to get along.
Well I'm afraid the Monk's player or the character itself believes that dominate person is an evil spell. It definitely CAN be used for evil, but I doubt trying to control cthulhu cultists could be considered evil.
I could summon angels, yes, and have a couple times, but it's a running theme that every time my character summons a celestial this or a celestial that they immediately get paralyzed or crit or something. In fact, every time I summon -something-, my party is keen to remind me of my paralyzed celestial gorilla, thus I just summon demons. Much easier that way.
Summoning demons makes the spell evil as well. But, none of my characters would enjoy being dictated to either.
Just ask him like what is the sound of one hand clapping or if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound and he will just dwell on it for hours while you slumber him and then cook him a pot
Remember that I'm not trying to make the Monk -feel- better about my spell choices, I'm trying to plan ways to subvert him when and if he tries something.
Just ask him like what is the sound of one hand clapping or if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound and he will just dwell on it for hours while you slumber him and then cook him a pot
Fantastic, though I feel that will fail unless accompanied by grappling succubi.
I'm trying to plan ways to subvert him when and if he tries something.
I don't understand this - you ask for help preparing spells, then imply that they will only be used defensively. Are you going to prepare a whole array of anti-monk spells every single day just in case he attacks you one day?
Also, why do you consider your character to be true neutral? Your behavior doesn't sound very "balanced" to me, it sounds to be either chaotic or evil.
I'm trying to plan ways to subvert him when and if he tries something.I don't understand this - you ask for help preparing spells, then imply that they will only be used defensively. Are you going to prepare a whole array of anti-monk spells every single day just in case he attacks you one day?
Also, why do you consider your character to be true neutral? Your behavior doesn't sound very "balanced" to me, it sounds to be either chaotic or evil.
I could have worded it better, more than just spells. Perhaps an item that will stop a full attack in some way, or something to get through touch AC. I really only said spells because that's my character's main calling card and the thing that'll have the worst chance of hurting the monk. I don't really -want- to come to blows with the monk, and I don't really think I -will-, but I'd rather not have my character be the 16th non hostile to get killed by that bow(long story, detailed in another thread). Suggestion how I could word that part better?
As for alignment. My character does generally good things like donate to orphanages, kill evil cultists, prevent the summoning of an evil god, kill deep ones, zombies, cthulhu beasts, help out Paladins and such. In fact if anything my character is neutral or chaotic good, I just don't get hung up on alignment when it comes to spells. If the bad guy is dead, he's dead.
okay just because you referenced the greatest thread in the history of threads I am putting my thinking cap on
what hexes do you have?
okay just because you referenced the greatest thread in the history of threads I am putting my thinking cap on
what hexes do you have?
What would that thread be? The accidental mass murder thread? Yes that's my party.
I have slumber, misfortune, cackle, evil eye, flight. and fortune. I'm a beast bonded witch so I had to blow a few feats to get what I needed.
This sort of thing can not be solved IC. Why not just sit down with him and discuss this like adults? Involve the DM too, if you like.
Note that clearly it’s not just RPing. If he’s doing this cause he’s goody-two shoes, he wouldn’t threaten to kill a fellow party member, a act which is CE.
Hmmm so no scar for long distance horror
I'm guessing he has a pretty nutty will save so you're going to need some time to keep his arrows out of your rump while you both evil eye and misfortune in order to get him to go to sleep
ughhh thinking is hard, hold on
but I'd rather not have my character be the 16th non hostile to get killed by that bow(long story, detailed in another thread). .
Linky?
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
This sort of thing can not be solved IC. Why not just sit down with him and discuss this like adults? Involve the DM too, if you like.
Note that clearly it’s not just RPing. If he’s doing this cause he’s goody-two shoes, he wouldn’t threaten to kill a fellow party member, a act which is CE.
No need. I don't plan on attacking him and I doubt he plans on attacking me(but both of us are prone to sudden sillyness). The table has a friendly demeanor and I sense no malice. MAYBE bad roleplaying, since our group's weakest point is keeping track of alignment and what it actually means. What I want is a realistic paranoid response from my witch.
Good point on the CE threats, I might use that against him if it comes up.
Also for your question http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2paw6?Whats-the-ruling-on-accidental-serial-kil ler
Pardon my DM's nutty thread title and first post, he wrote that at 2 am on a phone.
Would enemies and PC's have to make a spellcraft check to know exactly what a character is casting?
Tactically:
1. Can he see invisible?
2. Can he fly?
3. Do you ever heal him? Potentially persistent bestow curse?
Beyond that need a brief on your character and his character to identify mismatches and opportunities.
Role-playing-wise:
1. Openly defy him and try to provoke him. We can work on your defenses
2. If he doesn't provoke, tell him put up or shut up.
3. In character, threaten to leave the group if he doesn't shut up or does provoke
Non-role-playing
1. Is this a player issue?
2. Does the GM need to guide the players playing better together?
3. At the end, it's just a game to be enjoyed by all. If the other player is inhibiting your enjoyment, address that issue.
Would enemies and PC's have to make a spellcraft check to know exactly what a character is casting?
Thinking about Ill Omen?
Only thing for that is that I think it only covers one die roll and most likely he's going to bring the rain on youStill thinking
Tactically:
1. Can he see invisible?
2. Can he fly?
Beyond that need a brief on your character and his character to identify mismatches and opportunities.Role-playing-wise:
1. Openly defy him and try to provoke him. We can work on your defenses
2. If he doesn't provoke, tell him put up or shut up.
3. In character, threaten to leave the group if he doesn't shut up or does provokeNon-role-playing
1. Is this a player issue?
2. Does the GM need to guide the players playing better together?
3. At the end, it's just a game to be enjoyed by all. If the other player is inhibiting your enjoyment, address that issue.
Tactical
1:No, and I do have the patron that gives invisibility2:Nope, but I can. He also has a ranged weapon.
My character is high mental stat changeling witch(rolled incredibly well) that seems to be universally hated by NPC's due to her hag background. Recently I've begun to have a decoy spellbook and use alter self to appear human, though currently we're in an area of the world where it doesn't matter. His character is your typical magic hating dwarf, who would take up issue with my spells whether or not they were "shady". He has a very high wisdom, good intelligence, and a bad charisma.
RP ideas:I like them a lot, I'll try this and see if it works.
Non RP:
1:Not at all.
2:A little, we've had issues before with 3 bards in the party.
3:Oh no, I'm actually enjoying this confrontation. My witch is not.
Would enemies and PC's have to make a spellcraft check to know exactly what a character is casting?Thinking about Ill Omen?
Only thing for that is that I think it only covers one die roll and most likely he's going to bring the rain on youStill thinking
No I mean, say I was casting "Evilo's Ray of Horror" and aimed it at a daemon worshipping priest. Would the Monk KNOW it was that specific spell, or would he only know if I told him or he passed a spellcraft check?
Yeah, he wouldn't have a clue what spell it was without you either telling him or rolling spellcraft if he has it
Also...Haunting Mists sounds like a great initial opening spell if you have it or can acquire it
Do you ever heal him? Instead, potentially persistent bestow curse?
Going invisible and flying is highly defendable.
Can you summon monsters silently?
Do you have Persistent spell? Eventually, he'll roll low.
Are you into aggravating/paying third parties to kick him around?
Yeah, he wouldn't have a clue what spell it was without you either telling him or rolling spellcraft if he has itAlso...Haunting Mists sounds like a great initial opening spell if you have it or can acquire it
That seems to be a good opening, it has a possible debuff that hurts his best stat and messes with his darkvision and provides concealment. Even better that it's low level, since I only want to prepare a few offhand spells for defensive purposes.
Do you ever heal him? Instead, potentially persistent bestow curse?
Going invisible and flying is highly defendable.
Can you summon monsters silently?
Do you have Persistent spell? Eventually, he'll roll low.Are you into aggravating/paying third parties to kick him around?
1)I'm the party's healer after the battle is over, so yeah, consistently. I could say my wand's "out of charges" and mess with the dwarf that way.
2)Indeed it is!3)No silent spell, no, I had to use a lot of my feats for hexes. I do have misfortune, though
4)Paying third parties? 'splain.
Dominate him, lol.
...he wouldn’t threaten to kill a fellow party member, a act which is CE.
Killing fellow party members is not automatically Chaotic Evil, no. Sometimes, the party member really has it coming. ;D
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Commision a magic item that has a generaly positive effect like bless or blur. Have it be an item that fits with his character flavor. Sneak in a draw back. Like paralysis when you speak a command word or if you can swing it just have the item give the monk a curse where he cant attack you. Then sneak it into the loot next time yal explore.
Does his PC worship a Deity?
If so, which one?
Homebrew version of Irori, essentially.
Commision a magic item that has a generaly positive effect like bless or blur. Have it be an item that fits with his character flavor. Sneak in a draw back. Like paralysis when you speak a command word or if you can swing it just have the item give the monk a curse where he cant attack you. Then sneak it into the loot next time yal explore.
This...well this can be done. I like this!
Get a magic item that lets you cast Fickle Winds which will completely shut him down. Then fly over head and evil eye him and then spam save or die spells, even good saves can fail to bad rolls.
Haunting Mists
Reckless Infatuation
Start Evil Eyeing, Misfortuning and Cackling
Put him to sleep
Warm a bucket of water
Put Monk's hand in the water
Laugh (or Cackle)
Lots of good suggestion guys, got all this noted. I gotsa go for a bit, but don't let that stop you.
I especially like Reckless infatuation, could really use that against a ranged character while I use fly.]
A few scrolls of fickle winds wound help too, since we're fighting a lot of ranged mobs.
|
"Micromanaging every moral implication of my actions only serves the evil forces you set yourself against. You follow your destiny, and I will follow mine. Let only the Gods judge our deeds upon our journey to the next world. As such, should you continue to lay judgement upon me, I ask only one question: Are you a God?"
If he says no, then respond, "Here then, drink this potion, and look upon me. Only then, shall you judge me with the wisdom of a God".
4)Paying third parties? 'splain.
Well, from that other thread where your party accidentally committed mass murder, there appears to be an enemy rich environment. Maybe some of those enemies could get some information about where the monk is and maybe what he is done. Maybe some lawful authorities that he recognizes to come punish/chastise him.
Not from you of course using your alter self, fly, and invisibility.
Maybe he needs to encounter true evil, so that your dabbling evil pales in comparison. That true evil enemy might pay well for a tasty lawful monk soul...
Like the good duelist uses the table and chandelier, you could use the environment as tools.
"Micromanaging every moral implication of my actions only serves the evil forces you set yourself against. You follow your destiny, and I will follow mine. Let only the Gods judge our deeds upon our journey to the next world. As such, should you continue to lay judgement upon me, I ask only one question: Are you a God?"
If he says no, then respond, "Here then, drink this potion, and look upon me. Only then, shall you judge me with the wisdom of a God".
well but he could just in fact follow the peter venkman school of god-asking:
"ray, when someone asks you if you're a God you say YES"
EDIT: Hi5 Tim
He's neither Lawful good nor Lawful Neutral I thought we established that with the whole "slaughter 15 peasants" deal.
Convince the GM to retroactively change his alignment to something non-Monk compatible and then let him be surprised when at the next level up the GM asks what class he's multiclassing into.
Level six spells that might help:
Dust Form - Become incorporeal. Might buy you a few rounds of survival, effectively turning you into a ghost. 1round/level duration.
Flesh to Stone - If you can get it past his Fort save, you've locked him down long enough to do whatever you need to do. Set up a trap, send him to a demiplane. Sink him in the sea.
Level five spells:
Teleport - Obvious escape. Buys you up to a few days of planning, respite.
Mark of Justice - Pure awesome, use it on him when he's asleep, the effect you want is -4 to saves, attacks, skill checks and ability checks.
Alternatively, offer him a cursed item.
Commision a magic item that has a generaly positive effect like bless or blur. Have it be an item that fits with his character flavor. Sneak in a draw back. Like paralysis when you speak a command word or if you can swing it just have the item give the monk a curse where he cant attack you. Then sneak it into the loot next time yal explore.
The risk here is that, as a monk, he might have a good Sense Motive.
Is prot from law on your spell list?