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This statement "If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target." presupposes a single condition.... In order to perform a bull-rush you must enter the target's square.
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This statement "If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target." presupposes a single condition.... In order to perform a bull-rush you must enter the target's square.
No. Any creature with reach does not need to move up to a creature to bull rush it.
You do not have to enter the target's square to initiate a bull rush. When adjacent to the opponent, no movement is required. Likewise, an ogre does not have to move adjacent to a creature to grapple it, but they must become adjacent when grappled. Using the Polearm Master's Sweeping Fend, you can use bull rush at reach with a spear or pole arm with reach. You cannot use such a weapon against an adjacent opponent except as an improvised weapon. The line "If your attack fails, your movement ends in front of the target", suggests you can bull rush when not adjacent, as upon a failure you do have to move up to them.
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Fixed, and regarding the edited questions... it is defiantly not a precedent, but a specific quality of the helmet, like many other weapons possess. The ruling that a +5 sap applies to a dirty trick maneuver to hit a sensitive spot is a precedent. As written, it does not suggest the helmet has the bull rush special weapon quality, which does not exist, suggesting it only gets the +2 circumstance bonus. But because of this important blog post, in its precedence, this seems to be an instance where the DM should adjudicate a +1 helmet should give a +1 enhancement bonus on the bull rush in addition to the circumstance bonus. It specifically says the helmet is used, and is not incidental at all to the bull rush.
For the polearm master, if the use of the weapon is entirely incidental, then the Sweeping Fend effectively does nothing for the polearm master with regard to bull rushes. As written, it does not suggest the use of the weapon is incidental at all. This seems another instance where the weapon gains a phantom bull rush special weapon quality.
IMO, the polearm master archetype is weak enough as is, this ability does not need to be interpreted as non-functional.
I would rule it like this:
A bull rush is pushing someone back, so you need to be close enough to initiate that type of thing. I would say, a medium size PC needs to be adjacent to do this. Bull rush doesn't require a weapon, but can be done while holding one. Beyond that, it doesn't involve the weapon at all.
So, you need to be adjacent to Bull Rush IMO. If you happen to be holding a weapon that you couldn't make a melee attack with from that square, it doesn't really matter - you could make a melee attack from the adjacent square, just not with the reach weapon. I think this was the intent of the "instead of a melee attack" language - just to make it clear that you're not melee attacking AND bull rushing on your action (and therefore no weapon damage, etc.).
You can't normally make a bull rush with a weapon. Barbarian's Knockback rage power and some other things would allow you to, in which case you could bull rush from reach.
Note in PF, you do not even have to move with the foe to move them more than 5 ft; in D&D 3E you had to move with them generally, though some options (like the Knockback feat) had you stay in place.
If you have natural reach then perhaps this will work, but not with a reach weapon.
If you're using natural reach, wouldn't that be an unarmed strike (a weapon) with reach?
Nope. It would be a bull rush. Like all melee attacks, you can make combat maneuvers against anyone within your threatened squares. If you were a troll, for example, you could attempt a grapple from ten feet away, and not even provoke an attack of opportunity if you were not also in their threatened squares.
To my knowledge, there is nothing in the rules that changes or prohibits this.
After all, a bull rush doesn't necessarily mean "shoulder rush" or "full body tackle." It could just as easily be represented by a simple shove with one's hands.
Moving with the target is totally optional.
Like all melee attacks, you can make combat maneuvers against anyone within your threatened squares.... except squares you threaten with a weapon?
Are you really alluding that you cannot perform a combat maneuver against someone within your reach?
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In fact, you shouldn't be able to use a weapon with reach to make a bull rush against an adjacent opponent (if not for the polearm master's other abilities), while using the Sweeping Fend ability. Weapons with reach normally can't be used against adjacent opponents, though the Polearm Master can with a -2 penalty.
Am I the only one finding it entirely nonsensical to use a polearm or spear to bull rush with and incur a -4 penalty and gain nothing for it? Which would be further penalized to -6 for using a reach weapon against the adjacent opponent? (@13th, the polearm master gets a -2 to using a reach weapon against adjacent opponents, if the SRD is accurate.)
"At 13th level, a polearm master can use any spear or polearm to make bull rush maneuvers, though he takes a –4 penalty on combat maneuver checks when making such attempts."
I can see atleast one historical example of using a weapon to "Bull Rush an opponent, The Joust. You are Forbidden to strike an opponent with anything other than your lance, and so the weapon MUST be used. It is a Weapon and I should think that a magical or Masterwork Lance would be better at hitting no matter what type of attack it is used to make.
Bull Rush is simply a non-damaging Attack. The Lance has reach. Why would you require a Mounted Knight to be adjacent to his opponent in order to use a weapon to strike him, and cause a bull rush, that mechanically can not be used when adjacent to said opponent?
i would like to use my reach weapon to bullrush an opponent. i also have the possibility to use the reposistion combat manuever at reach because my weapon(fauchard) has the trip property. paizo faq that trip weapons can be used to reposition and drag. i also took the feat pushing assault to knock back an enemy on a power attack by giving up power attack added damage.
it seems like all these options are replacing damage with the desired effect of pushing an enemy back. i'm not sure why it would be deemed op to push someone 5ft back causing no damage. polearm fighter is lukewarm for reach fight builds. i think there is more options out there.
Performing a Combat Maneuver
When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.
When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target's Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.
Note that the use of weapons in combat maneuvers is explicitly allowed. There is nothing in Bull Rush that disallows weapon use. Nor is there anything that states you must be adjacent to your target. In fact Shield Slam requires the use of a weapon and nowhere does it state that Bull Rushing with the shield is an exception to the rules, only that you get a free attempt that does not provoke an AOO.
The blog post says normally, thus stating that exceptions to the Disarm, Sunder, and Trip only for weapons exist. And that was written before the Dirty Tricks maneuver complicated things.
Are you really alluding that you cannot perform a combat maneuver against someone within your reach?Like all melee attacks, you can make combat maneuvers against anyone within your threatened squares.... except squares you threaten with a weapon?
No, you are.
so with my 3 options of moving an enemy away from frontline:
bullrush
repositioning
pushing assault feat
what makes the most sense with a trip weapon? repositioning can be done with a reach trip weapon and states that the last 5ft of your moving enemy can be adjacent to your actual reach. seems even better than bullrush and since you can do it at reach, you could forget or hold off on getting improved reposistion feat.bullrush says you dont have to move with enemy so is'nt that the same?
i think i took pushing assault just because i was worried table gms would not allow reach weapon based bullrush. my current gm allows dirty tricks with reach weapons but shrugged when bullrush was suggested. either way i think i'm covered
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The other advantage to Reposition is that you can reposition in any direction, not only straight back.
No one has mentioned yet that Foehammers of the appropriate level may make a free Bull Rush when they attack with a hammer. So a Foehammer using a Dwarven Longhammer can most definitely Bull Rush with reach.
The other advantage to Reposition is that you can reposition in any direction, not only straight back.
No one has mentioned yet that Foehammers of the appropriate level may make a free Bull Rush when they attack with a hammer. So a Foehammer using a Dwarven Longhammer can most definitely Bull Rush with reach.
so between dwarf boulder helmet and foehammer they establish bullrush at reach
nice one
using a reach weapon during a full-round action to bullrush someone backwards and not move......
legal?