I'm making a Cleric for PFS, here's what I have so far at level 1:
Cleric (Crusader Archetype)
Worships Iomedae
Equipment:
Masterwork Full Plate
Heavy Wooden Shield
Masterwork Longsword
(2056 gold limit)
Stats:
16
12
14
12
16
7
Feats: Additional Traits, Heavy Armor Proficiency, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Traits: Reactive (slight initiative bonus), Indomitable Faith (slight will save bonus), Bully (for intimidate), Divine Warrior (slightly better weapon buffs)
Skills:
Diplomacy
Intimidate
Heal
Kn. Religion (probably just put one point in my class knowledges)
Sense Motive
Spellcraft
Spells:
0th
Light
Virtue
Guidance
1st
Divine Favor
I haven't played a cleric before, so what I'm asking for is some help with designing a good fighter/cleric type. I'm open to multi-classing if it will really help.
The Books I've got are the CRB, APG, and UC. If there is a really good reason to get something like Ultimate Magic then I might consider it.
Why did you dump Charisma and not Intelligence? That seems rather silly.
I felt like having the extra points of intelligence would help me keep up knowledges and intimidate (roleplay reasons.) I didn't think charisma did much except boost channeling, which I wasn't going to put resources towards. Is channeling worth it? Are skills not worth keeping up for a frontline cleric?
Most Domain powers are based on Cha too I believe. And Channeling is a good source of free healz.
My buddy made a fun Cleric here a while back though, it's a Strix Cleric of Gorum with the Rage and War Domains. Flyby Attack + Greatsword + Rage = lol.
Also, what's a good domain/subdomain to look for?
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No, the Domain Powers are based off of Wisdom.
But look at it this way.
If you dump Charisma, in favor of intelligence, you are purposely dumping an area you ARE good at (Channeling Positive Energy) for an area you are NOT good at.
Look at it this way.
If you Dump Charisma to 7, you only have 1 channel each day. Meanwhile, with a 12 INT, you are going to have 4 skills (assuming you're human).
If you dump Intelligence to 7, you have 2 skills (3 if you do favored class bonus) and 4 channels a day.
The fact of the matter is clerics are not skill monkeys, and if you try to make them a skill monkey, you're gonna have a bad time.
Do I go with channeling positive, or channeling negative energy?
Do cleric of Iomede get a choice in the matter?
That being said I'm not a fan of tank clerics, palis do it better.
I do like neg channeling 2hd clerics, such as Gorum. 18 str, greatsword prof, channel smite... By level 3 you can have power attacks that deal 2d6+9 +2d6 channeled + 1(destructive smite)
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Why did you dump Charisma and not Intelligence? That seems rather silly.I felt like having the extra points of intelligence would help me keep up knowledges and intimidate (roleplay reasons.) I didn't think charisma did much except boost channeling, which I wasn't going to put resources towards. Is channeling worth it? Are skills not worth keeping up for a frontline cleric?
Considering Intimidate is a CHA-based skill, dumping CHA is a very bad idea just for a few extra skill points. If you're wanting a combat-oriented cleric, then you're going to have to give knowledge a miss. You can do combat, with your crusader archetype, or you can do knowledge, with the cloistered archetype, but you can't really specialise in both.
Either the Heroism or Tactics subdomain will be very good for you. Heroism retains Glory's first level ability which allows you to be good at doing charisma based skills like intimidating or diplomatting; things you seem to want to be good at that you wouldn't now need to take as many ranks it. At 8th level, you exude an aura that makes your team into heroes! Tactics is quite something. I prefer the granted spells of Heroism, but I cannot deny that the ability to roll twice for initiative and take the better result will be handy at every single level.
I'm making a Cleric for PFS, here's what I have so far at level 1:
Cleric (Crusader Archetype)
Worships IomedaeEquipment:
Masterwork Full Plate
Heavy Wooden Shield
Masterwork Longsword
(2056 gold limit)
I thought in PFS you can not have more than one Master work Item at a time. Also 2056 gold is not for a level one character. Guess I am just confused.
The only choice that seems odd to me is the one-handed weapon. I understand wanting +2 AC, but you're only throwing 7.5 damage per hit when you could be doing 11 with a greatsword, or 10.5 with a reach weapon.
This seems like an overly defensive build to me.
Longsword is the favoured weapon of Iomedae. He can wield it two-handed if he wants. Crusaders can get weapon bonus feats, but ONLY for their deity's weapon.
He also might have the shield on hand if he needs it. That's the beauty of one-handed weapons at very low levels. Sometimes that +2 AC makes all the difference.
Hang on... can you even afford Full Plate at level one? No way. Way too much.
The table I was playing at (myself included) decided it was worth the gamble to play up a tier with our level 1's and the payoff was about 1,500 more gold than we would have gotten for a tier 1-2 playthrough. That is the reason why I can afford masterwork armor and sword + shield at level one.
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The table I was playing at (myself included) decided it was worth the gamble to play up a tier with our level 1's and the payoff was about 1,500 more gold than we would have gotten for a tier 1-2 playthrough. That is the reason why I can afford masterwork armor and sword + shield at level one. ** spoiler omitted **
Hate to break it to you, but your table cheated. Your subtier is determined by your APL, not by choice. If it's a table of first-level PCs, you play tier 1-2, period. They only time you get to choose is if your APL falls in the one-level gap between tiers. For instance, in a Tier 1-5 scenario, there are subtiers 1-2 and 4-5. If the APL of the table is 3, you get to choose which way to go. If it's 1, 2, 4 or 5, you don't get to choose.
Also, if the only differences between tiers are what you say, then your GM was doing a LOT of ch- er, "fudging":
The tier 4-5 BBEG doesn't just have a better weapon, she's a higher level, and her negative energy channel would have TPK'd a table of 1st-level PCs in one round (unless she got a lousy damage roll, in which case, two rounds).
And is that the one with the stampede? (Can't remember as it's a 3-part series; one of them has a stampede.) If so, the 4-5 version would insta-kill any level 1 character except maybe a barbarian (but even they would be well into negatives, and have no one to heal them).
That scenario is rough at tier 1-2, to the point that it's gotten quite a few complaints. If a table of 1st-level PCs made it through tier 4-5, then the GM was either incompetent or just felt like handing you all a couple thousand gold for free. They need to be reported. Other PCs have died in that scenario and your GM is just handing out the goodies like candy.
I only guessed at our level composition, I don't really know what the other players had.
On the topic of the cleric build, what spells are good?
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Okay, so:
1) The GM chose to have the BBEG use a different, less-lethal attack than was written because...?
2) You "scouted ahead" with a six-second summon? So at first level, you summoned an innocuous creature, communicated with it enough to send it ahead to scout and then come back to you, and then it was able to communicate the danger to you, and you were all able to dig out the grappling hooks and start climbing, all in a single round?
And there's still the issue of it not being legal to just "play up" on a whim.
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On the topic of the cleric build, what spells are good?
For a battle cleric, you want buffs. Bless is great early on. Magic weapon should be prepped in case of DR/magic. Shield of faith is also solid if it looks like you need to really get your tank on (and you also have the option of putting it on someone else if the need arises).
As you progress, bull's strength becomes your main buff for a while, giving you +2 to attacks and damage (or +3 to damage if you're using a two-hander).
When you hit 6th level, however, some of your "bad" buffs start to get good. Divine favor, at 6th level, now grants you a +2 to attacks and damage as a luck bonus. This makes it like bull's strength except it stacks with a STR belt and only costs you a 1st-level spell instead of a 2nd-level spell. Prep a couple per day and maybe even carry a 1st-level pearl or two so you can throw this up in the first round of every fight.
If you were to have the Heroism domain, you'd also get access to heroism as a domain spell, which is a pretty long-lasting buff (and stacks with bull's strength and divine favor, but not bless).
If you have the book for it, I also suggest (starting at about 4th level) prepping a slot or two of liberating command each day. It's a 1st-level spell, casts as an immediate action, and the targeted ally can spend an immediate action to attempt an Escape Artist check to escape a grapple with a bonus equal to double your level. My 6th-level cleric's 1st-level spell slots are most just copies of divine favor and liberating command.
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Another issue is that clerics in PFS are expected to heal and buff at PFS tables. They even expect this if you tell them you're a BATTLE cleric. Which means some of the time you'll end up doing support.
So, what, you always give people what they expect, even when you've already told them that's not what you do? Man, grow a pair.
I prepare stabilize every session. Some doofus wants to assume I'm a healbot, he'll be in for a surprise... once he wakes up.
So if you're looking for a class that can deal cleric type stuff while still be good at fighting I suggest you take a look at the Oracle class as some of them can make very good fighters and they are not as MAD as a cleric.
Battle oracles can indeed be fearsome. On the other hand, being in the front line will typically expose you to more poisons/diseases/curses, and clerics have better fort saves to deal with that fact. Clerics can choose domains that give them access to better spell options (for instance, I can cast heroism, which is an amazing buff that lasts 10min/level; I'm not aware of any way for an oracle to get that spell). Additionally, domain powers can give them either additional combat abilities or (if you're feeling cheeky) noncombat powers that will help offset the prices you paid for your combat stats so you can "get away with" more combat focus in your general build.
So there's definitely advantages to being a battle cleric instead of a battle oracle; you just have to approach it from a different angle.
How set are you to playing a cleric?
While a good battle cleric can be made, I just find them frustrating. This is because to be good, you need to take the time to pre-buff before or at the start of fights.
Another issue is that clerics in PFS are expected to heal and buff at PFS tables. They even expect this if you tell them you're a BATTLE cleric. Which means some of the time you'll end up doing support.
So if you're looking for a class that can deal cleric type stuff while still be good at fighting I suggest you take a look at the Oracle class as some of them can make very good fighters and they are not as MAD as a cleric. Another option is just take a Paladin and grab the feats that help with the paladin healing. There are some nice paladin archetypes for healing but don't know if your books have access to them.
I was pretty set on making a cleric-type because the "crusader" theme appealed to me, it had good saves, and I like playing fighter/cleric characters in CRPG's. Oracles also seem a little arcane/sorcerer-y to me, which feels a bit hard to work into the "holy warrior" thing I've got going on.
I'd say go ahead and dump Cha to 8 anyways, it's really just for channeling, and if you're looking to be a straight battle cleric, you'll almost never want to waste a round channeling. And for after combat, you can still use the wand of CLW.
But since you're PFS, I'd say don't drop it to less than 8, since for faction missions you'll probably be required to do Diplomacy from time to time. And, INT at 12 for skill points I'd say is also okay for the same reason, PFS rewards balanced characters, and no, I know you're not looking to be a skill monkey, but just to be able to hit the basics (Percept, a Know or 2, Diplo, and some swim and climb are nice.)
And most battle clerics I know would be fine with a 1st level WIS of 14, more important to get the STR up to 18, take power attack, use a 2H weapon, get enlarged. Or a reach weapon and get enlarged. Get a wand and ask your party's arcane to buff you before battle.
Channel is good for channeled smite, doesn't waste a round channeling, in fact boosts damage nicely when you need to spike something. Needs neg channeling to make full use of, clerics of Gorum are best due to GS prof and being neutral (so can qualify for versatile channel if you want to got that route). Quick Channel is also a solid use of channel for a battle cleric, move action heal for 3d6 (when you first qualify) is quit nice since clerics aren't going to get 2 attacks for quite awhile in PFS play. Make it a protection variant channel to lower enemy or raise party AC for a round as a move action is pretty good in the right situation (even with the half strength heals). Channel is a good ability, you just need to know how to get more out of it than just more healing.
Power attack isn't available till level 3, but its still worth taking at that point.
Are metamagic feats/rods important?
UMD and wands of Paladin spells for the win. You can make your weapon a holy avenger for a period of time. Give yourself +5 to attack and damage and 10 DR /-. Plus give your armor and shield a +2 enhancement bonus to AC.
UMD and wands of Paladin spells for the win. You can make your weapon a holy avenger for a period of time. Give yourself +5 to attack and damage and 10 DR /-. Plus give your armor and shield a +2 enhancement bonus to AC.
What do you need to have in order to reliably make the DC20 check? Or is there no big penalty for failure when using wands?