APL for 6 Char who lost all there gear

[STARGAZER_DRAGON]

just a quick question what do you think the APL is of 6 9th lvl characters who lost all there gear

They do have a monk rouge and a sorce, past that they have a gunslinger who is reduced to using a short bow, a barbarian who is reduced to only a short sword and a pally who has nothing more then a short sword and a small wood sheild.

There is also a NPC alchemist so they will have his bombs.

The party does have good stats so I figured there APL to be about 9

8 for there lvl
+1 for 6 chars (5 players +1 NPC)
+1 for good stats
- 1 for lack of proper gear

Does this sound about right??

[Atarlost]

No. You basically cannot use the APL and CR system at all for a party like that. Inadequate gear does not effect everything equally. You can't really use APL for number of party members either. You have to build to the real party level and increase the encounter size without making any individual opponents stronger or you risk running afoul of poorly documented breakpoints.

A gunslinger without a gun is a warrior: an NPC class. The +1 APL for good stats isn't a thing. That's a CR adjustment for elite NPCs. You'd apply it to the gunslinger that you're counting as a warrior, but not to the other PCs.

At APL 8 you're assumed to be able to get through DR/magic and cold iron and silver and they can't. There are also assumptions about where their save should be that are significantly off at 8th level with no cloaks of resistance. The assumed AC will be off by even more since their real level doesn't contribute to that at all except for the monk.

In offense they may be APL 8. In saves they're probably about APL 5. In AC they're more like APL 3 or 4.

[blackbloodtroll]

Why is the Monk wearing rouge?

[Skylancer4]

blackbloodtroll wrote:

Why is the Monk wearing rouge?

No no no, the rouge is made of monk (or maybe monk colored).

[VRMH]

A Paladin without a Holy Symbol, a Gunslinger without a gun. A Sorcerer without backup scrolls, a Rogue without lockpicks...

What are these people, Commoners?

[hoku]

If they can work together they will be fine

[blackbloodtroll]

No spell components?

[Odraude]

Generally speaking, a creature with NPC gear is at a -1 level. I'd estimate that without any gear, you'd drop them about 3 below their level. Of course, if they are escaping, I'd just throw NPC mooks no higher than level 5 at them until they can get their gear.

[Bill Dunn]

I would consider eyeballing them 2 APL down for lack of gear. But one thing you should definitely keep in mind - adding to their APL for having extra PCs/higher stats may be worth a higher XP budget for building encounters, but don't raise the CR of the creatures involved. If you had enough 1st level PCs to have a 20APL, they're still a speed bump a pit fiend.

You may want to particularly eyeball the encounters you toss at them, watching out for especially high ACs, DRs, save DCs, and other specialty attacks that generally require good gear to overcome.

[darkwarriorkarg]

With no equipment, how is the alchemist making bombs?

[blackbloodtroll]

Will they know ahead of time?

Can they build with these restrictions in mind?

[Kayerloth]

How did they get into this situation?

[Gandal]

An encounter suited for a CR 7-8 encounter will wipe out such a group; what their AC? and Saves?

If i may ask, is the lack of equipment due to adventuring or they started without it?

[EWHM]

My suggestion, when you have PCs in said condition, throw out APL/CR etc altogether. Just go into sandbox mode and let them go after whatever they think they can handle. If that's a bunch of orcs or maybe some ogres, so be it. Just let them do that until they're reasonably close to WBL.

[blackbloodtroll]

An Arcane Duelist with Catch-off Guard feat, a Breaker Barbarian, or a Witch with the Blood Money spell could handle it.

Wood Oracle would do fine too.