| CWheezy |
I am looking to go Paladin 5/Hellknight X, and I am wondering how the requirements for the prestige class work. I thought I read before that any sort of "Slay X Monster" requirement for PFS was null and you just had to have the skill ranks and proficiencies, but I can't find that anywhere.
I don't know any PFS scenarios where you could slay a devil, especially with another hellknight standing around, but I am not well versed in all scenarios. I am sure there are ones with devils, but ones with a hellknight buddy? maybe not
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Actually, what you are looking for is on page 23 of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play, v4.3:
Prestige Classes
Roleplaying requirements for prestige classes (such as particular ceremonies or killing a devil) are waived in Pathfinder Society. Please make the following adjustments if you wish to take levels in Loremaster or Pathfinder Chronicler. Additional prestige class options (and any minor adjustments needed) are found at paizo.com/pathfindersociety/resources.
Loremaster: This prestige class’s requirement of “any three metamagic or item creation feats” changes to “any three metamagic or Spell Focus feats.”
Pathfinder Chronicler: This prestige class does not require an item creation feat to access it.
As you can see, it explicitly calls out the killing a devil requirement, so you should be covered.
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I find it very odd that a Hell Knight (who follows the law at all costs) would join the PFS. If anything, I would think they would want PFS destroyed. PFS breaks the law... often. I'm not entirely sure how a Hell Knight concept would work in PFS. I mean, we drop almost all roleplaying pretense in PFS, but this seems to directly oppose PFS.
OK, sorry for the derail.
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I find it very odd that a Hell Knight (who follows the law at all costs) would join the PFS. If anything, I would think they would want it destroyed. PFS breaks the law... often. I see a conflict.
And that is different than a Paladin, not just a Lawful entity, but someone interested in the good side, as well, joins a group of lawbreakers who hoard things that could benefit other people?
| CWheezy |
Paladins seem to focus more on the good side of the alignment
Lots of people think otherwise! Also, a lot of hellknight orders seem pretty applicable, such as: Order of the Nail, Order of the scourge!
Handwaving away the paladin focus on order, saying they are actually just good, so they are pathfinder society no problem (Have you played pfs before or what), and saying that hellknights would be totally nuts to be in there doesn't seem very fair!
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It's been a few weeks since I read through the Hell Knight entry (and I could be wrong), so I'll quote some text (from the ISCG) when I get back home. I'm pretty sure HKs are extremists.
Have you played pfs before or what
Not needed and doesn't support your argument.
I never said Paladins were just good, I said that Paladins focus on good more than the law. This is supported by the fact that a Paladin would not follow an unjust law or leader. A Hell Knight would, the letter of the law is everything.
And Paladins aren't "pathfinder society no problem", most of the time it's a matter of the GMs being very lenient on them. With the amount of lying and deceiving pathfinders do, I find it very challenging to play a Paladin (unless you like to be silent the entire scenario). Possible, but very challenging.
| CWheezy |
It's been a few weeks since I read through the Hell Knight entry (and I could be wrong), so I'll quote some text (from the ISCG) when I get back home. I'm pretty sure HKs are extremists.
Paladins are pretty extreme as well!
Not needed and doesn't support your argument.
PFS is a heavily neutral society, so yeah it kind of does, the society does some pretty terrible things in order to further their own goals, which is getting paid
And Paladins aren't "pathfinder society no problem", most of the time it's a matter of the GMs being very lenient on them. With the amount of lying and deceiving pathfinders do, I find it very challenging to play a Paladin (unless you like to be silent the entire scenario). Possible, but very challenging.
Actually they are because PFS is about getting new players playing pathfinder and getting involved in the community, and also creating a worldwide community where you can easily jump in and play.
Anyway I got my answer I don't think I will respond any more
EDIT: Thinking about unjust laws/leaders, wouldn't a hellknight not follow those because of their unjust-ness? Regardless of good or bad, they probably want laws they are as just as possible.
That is probably why their alignment restriction is "Any Lawful" instead of "Lawful Neutral"
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I am a paladin because, when my children were stolen from me and my wife lay dead in my arms, the church of Torag gave me comfort and invited me to turn my sword towards their goals: to defend the innocent and protect the good people of Golarion. They gave my life purpose anew.
I am a Pathfinder because a Her Excellency, the Paracountess Draleen, who now has my children secured, promises to keep them fed and well-cared for, in exchange for missions I perform for her. I have met all manner of shield-companions, and built a wide-ranging network of spies.
I am a Hellknight because Her Excellency thought it would be amusing to demand it of me. But I am a companion of the Order of the Scourge because it is made up of men and women who hate corruption. This gives me strength through the hardest and darkest nights.
Someday, I will find and rescue Adrian and Tiki. And the next day, I will turn my attention to Her Excellency and her mocking offers to bespoil the memory of my wife. That day, yes, I think I will take her up on her invitation and visit her chambers.
Because of her evil, I know I will do my vows to Torag proud. And by her abuse of her authority, she has ensured that I will take my vengeance with the full weight of the Scourge behind me.
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sigh... this again.
Paladins of Abadar, a L/N diety would stress Law above all else... but you can easily have "the Law" on both sides of an issue.
Paladin quote - "I follow the laws of my homeland and serve in her military. That is why I am in you land, bringing Law to the barbarians." some Cheliaxian paladin during the conquest of Nidal.
Paladin quote - "I am fighting to repel the invaders from my homeland, to remove the foriegn blight on my blessed Taldor!" a Paladin explaining why he is involved in the hunt for N/G Sarenrae cultists in Taldor.
Paladin quote - "I am here to protect those who have seen the light of the Dawnflower amoung the heathen masses in the shadowed land of Taldor. This is holy work sactioned by my goverment." a Paladin of the Dawnflower, engaged in aiding cultists hiding in the lands of Taldor.
All these are paladins engaged in Lawful duties - assigned by lawful authority - it's just that the authority is different in each case. Heck, the last two could be fighting each other!
What is Lawful in one place is Un-Lawful in another. Which Law does your Paladin support?
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Either a paladin or a hellnight is a pretty small room.
A paladin hellknight is like wearing a skin tight leather outfit.
A paladin hellknight pathfinder is like wearing a skin tight leather outfit and then trying to play twister.
How many scenarios are there that won't involve mayhem, theft, murder, breaking and entering, carrying a concealed weapon, smuggling, illegal acts with a farm animal, trespassing, kidnapping, lying, libel, slander, and or high speed Jaywalking?
| CWheezy |
How many scenarios are there that won't involve mayhem, theft, murder, breaking and entering, carrying a concealed weapon, smuggling, illegal acts with a farm animal, trespassing, kidnapping, lying, libel, slander, and or high speed Jaywalking?
Are you ok with a straight paladin doing those things
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BigNorseWolf wrote:Are you ok with a straight paladin doing those things
How many scenarios are there that won't involve mayhem, theft, murder, breaking and entering, carrying a concealed weapon, smuggling, illegal acts with a farm animal, trespassing, kidnapping, lying, libel, slander, and or high speed Jaywalking?
Not without a good reason, not without agood reason, not without a REALLY good reason , for the greater good, for the greater good, only to save someones life, no, for a good reason, for a good reason, no, no, and yes.
All kidding aside, the paladin is more Good than lawful. They can bend the law side for the greater good, and the campaign kind of encourages that, but trying to be rigidly lawful in the pathfinder society just isn't going to work.
| CWheezy |
Well firstly it is going to work, because I will do it and it will be fine.
secondly, handwaving away the lawful part of a paladin is pretty funny imo.
Lastly is "For the betterment of the pathfinder society and no one else" a good reason because that is basically the only one.
Like, if you deny hellknights then you deny paladins, pretty simple for PFS. Handwaving the lawful side of a paladin is total crap, they are INCREDIBLY lawful, their moral code is EVERYTHING
EDIT: I wonder how monks do, they are all lawful as well, emphasis on the lawful part
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Just as a clarification, and an example,
Just about every single case that goes before a Judge anywhere in the United States has a reasonable legal argument behind it on both sides. Otherwise, one side is going to get heafty sanctions.
Every single case that ends up in any appellate court, such as the Supreme Court, has good legal arguments on both sides. Both sides will also say they are fighting for the good guy. I don't care how mundane or how incredibly hot the topic is, from a "what to do with toxic waste in New York" case to the ongoing gay rights movement, there are people on both sides, with the law behind them, claiming the be on the side of good.
Point is, there is huge latitude in Lawful Good. So, it is not that hard to Roleplay, unless you want to RP what Bodhi calls Lawful Stupid in his guide to paladins.. . which also isnt too hard, but generally leads to groups hating you.
EDIT: Please do not take this as an invitation to pull politics into this discussion, merely intended as a true and honest real life example of how lawful functions.
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Arizhel, attorneys in Golarion have the advantage that "Good" and "Law" have supernatural patrons, available for consultation. The Red Raven can claim that the tyrants of Galt have no legal authority for their butchery, but in the end they are Lawful and he is Chaotic.
Put another way, Good and Evil are both philosophical concepts and team names.
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I run a Hellknight/Rogue PC and a Paladin/Inquisitor of Abadar, neither of my characters have come across moral problems with the options the party presents, as long as your character is clear about what he can and cant do its fine.
My rogue/hellknight doesnt use the more obviously chaotic rogue abilities (slight of hand), he doesnt steal from people, doesnt break any laws that a soldier wouldnt in times of war (ie I wont kill random peasants, but if someone tries to kill me, or is a member of a hostile organisation such as the aspis consortium or the cult of lissala its an act of war and then ill do my outmost to kill them) he will of course loot corpses and any NPC who surrenders as they no longer have any rights of ownership on their gear (if you try and kill me your gear is the "tax" that you have to pay to remind you that attacking people in spiky hellknight armor is a bad idea) but im more than willing to be stealthy if we are on a mission that requires it, disable traps that we come across and generally beat people around the head with the worlds largest Machette (large sized Falcata).
We had a couple of extra fights in some scenarios as my paladin wouldnt lie about our purpose being there (and the party decided I would be the face).