Shield Proficiency

[Riuken]

Simple question that I can't find an answer to on my own. When a class grants proficiency with shields, does that include the use of them as martial weapons or just as armor? If so, are shield spikes included?

[Satchmo]

You can use them as weapons even without shield spikes. However, without the correct feat support your shield bonus to AC is lost.

[Seranov]

I'm pretty sure you need Martial Weapon Proficiency to use Shields as weapons without taking the -4 Proficiency penalty.

[Seriphim84]

Shields are only martial weapons if you add shield spikes. At that point you need the proficiency.

[Grick]

Riuken wrote:

When a class grants proficiency with shields, does that include the use of them as martial weapons or just as armor?

Shield Proficiency (Combat): "When you use a shield (except a tower shield), the shield's armor check penalty only applies to Strength- and Dexterity-based skills.

Normal: When you are using a shield with which you are not proficient, you take the shield's armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all skill checks that involve moving.

Special: Barbarians, bards, clerics, druids, fighters, paladins, and rangers all automatically have Shield Proficiency as a bonus feat. They need not select it."

Riuken wrote:

If so, are shield spikes included?

Shields and spiked shields are two different Martial Weapons. You can find them both listed under martial weapons in Table: Weapons in the Equipment chapter.

James Jacobs (Creative Director) wrote:

Since a shield bash or shield spike is a martial weapon, the cleric in this case could use the attack but would take the -4 penalty for not being proficient.

[Riuken]

So grick, based on JJ's post it looks like a cleric performing a shield bash takes a -4 penalty for not being proficient with them as a weapon, correct?

[Seranov]

That would indeed be the case.

[blackbloodtroll]

Now, my only question, is whether the Shaonti Tattoo trait, which give you proficiency with Klars, means Klars as a weapon, a shield, or both?

[Seranov]

Probably both, otherwise you'd take an ACP penalty to stuff while using one.