|
The overall system of Pathfinder is great but there are a few area's that I feel need some attention. Now we all know that there is no perfect system but you can sit down and go through the books and point out those flaws that do exist and work on fixing them.
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I know there are others so I will post more as I think of them. I am pushing for an improved game because overall, it is a fantastic product and I feel it has room to grow in terms of quality.
|
|
None of those things(except possibly number 4) are problems with the overall system of Pathfinder. They are problems with specific portions of the game. And I don't think number 4 is widespread enough to be considered a system wide problem.
I am looking at Pathfinder as a whole and the problems that exist.
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I don't see a problem with any of these really. I really think you need to explain what's wrong with these areas instead of just throwing them out there and expecting everyone to agree with you.
1: Magic Item Creation is simple and it works and if you don't like it then just ban it in your campaign.
2: Simulacrum seems fine to me. You make a weak copy of something and it costs a bunch of money. I don't see how that's a game breaker.
3: Ban the traits you don't like from your campaign.
4: They give you a pretty good rough outline and you DM will decide the specifics. That's why you have a DM.
5: Don't see a problem here. You're suppose to have more money as you level up.
I kind of feel like this might belong in the homebrew area
So that boils down to:
1) Clarifying the parts of the game that are vague, poorly worded, or not sufficiently detailed in their explanations due to the complexity of the effect/ability.
2) Reigning in the elements of the game that are kind of out of hand (too much power given to the players).
Parts of the game I consider problematic and worthy of extensive discussion:
1.) High level play
2.) Magic item crafting rules, especially the cost reduction they provide and the multiple areas which are imbalanced or negatively affected in other ways due to it.
3.) Some classes, specifically the Gunslinger and Summoner.
4.) Long resting periods and APs which seem to presume that parties will take out a whole dungeon in one rush-through vs. the "limited use" design philosophy of pretty much all the new Paizo core classes.
5.) Christmas tree effect of magic items.
6.) General design philosophy of Pathfinder/D&D questions, like that argument SKR opened a few weeks ago, questioning the very necessity of a component cost for Raise Dead.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
SAD vs. MAD.
The full caster classes need a little MAD in their lives. SAD building strategies are really dull in a lot of the pickup games I've played in this year.
Stat Boosts.
They are silly in how they are handled on magic items. For it to be permanent, as in more spells, the item can't be removed. Think about that, your cleric, Mage whatever is going to sleep and bathe with a circlet on all of the time.
Although I'd be fine with removing the extra spells all together, the DC boost is enough of a positive that you'd still see the stat booster items chosen before most everything else.
|
|
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I don't see a problem with any of these really. I really think you need to explain what's wrong with these areas instead of just throwing them out there and expecting everyone to agree with you.
1: Magic Item Creation is simple and it works and if you don't like it then just ban it in your campaign.
2: Simulacrum seems fine to me. You make a weak copy of something and it costs a bunch of money. I don't see how that's a game breaker.
3: Ban the traits you don't like from your campaign.
4: They give you a pretty good rough outline and you DM will decide the specifics. That's why you have a DM.
5: Don't see a problem here. You're suppose to have more money as you level up.
I kind of feel like this might belong in the homebrew area
Are you actually familiar with the system?
It sounds like your not according to your responses.
|
|
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I don't see a problem with any of these really. I really think you need to explain what's wrong with these areas instead of just throwing them out there and expecting everyone to agree with you.
1: Magic Item Creation is simple and it works and if you don't like it then just ban it in your campaign.
2: Simulacrum seems fine to me. You make a weak copy of something and it costs a bunch of money. I don't see how that's a game breaker.
3: Ban the traits you don't like from your campaign.
4: They give you a pretty good rough outline and you DM will decide the specifics. That's why you have a DM.
5: Don't see a problem here. You're suppose to have more money as you level up.
I kind of feel like this might belong in the homebrew area
Are you actually familiar with the system?
It sounds like your not according to your responses.
Yes, I've been playing Pathfinder since it came out. I'm usually a DM though, so I'm not sure if being a player gives you a different perspective. I haven't had any of the things that you are pointing out cause a problem in any of my campaigns.
If you're going to post problems, I think you should post exactly how these things are causing a problem. Expand on what you believe is so bad about them, and consider offering a solution or alternative. Also, you should probably to a spelling and grammar check before you submit your post.
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I don't see a problem with any of these really. I really think you need to explain what's wrong with these areas instead of just throwing them out there and expecting everyone to agree with you.
1: Magic Item Creation is simple and it works and if you don't like it then just ban it in your campaign.
2: Simulacrum seems fine to me. You make a weak copy of something and it costs a bunch of money. I don't see how that's a game breaker.
3: Ban the traits you don't like from your campaign.
4: They give you a pretty good rough outline and you DM will decide the specifics. That's why you have a DM.
5: Don't see a problem here. You're suppose to have more money as you level up.
I kind of feel like this might belong in the homebrew area
Are you actually familiar with the system?
It sounds like your not according to your responses.
Or, you know, they just disagree with you?
|
|
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I don't see a problem with any of these really. I really think you need to explain what's wrong with these areas instead of just throwing them out there and expecting everyone to agree with you.
1: Magic Item Creation is simple and it works and if you don't like it then just ban it in your campaign.
2: Simulacrum seems fine to me. You make a weak copy of something and it costs a bunch of money. I don't see how that's a game breaker.
3: Ban the traits you don't like from your campaign.
4: They give you a pretty good rough outline and you DM will decide the specifics. That's why you have a DM.
5: Don't see a problem here. You're suppose to have more money as you level up.
I kind of feel like this might belong in the homebrew area
Are you actually familiar with the system?
It sounds like your not according to your responses.
Yes, I've been playing Pathfinder since it came out. I'm usually a DM though, so I'm not sure if being a player gives you a different perspective. I haven't had any of the things that you are pointing out cause a problem in any of my campaigns.
If you're going to post problems, I think you should post exactly how these things are causing a problem. Expand on what you believe is so bad about them, and consider offering a solution or alternative. Also, you should probably to a spelling and grammar check before you submit your post.
Lets take a look at one of your answers.
WBL: Now your response was that you are supposed to have more money as you level up. What kind of answer is that? Of course you are supposed to have more money because thingsget more expensive. The WBL does not work when you take crafting into consideration which is what we have been talking about.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
So, your problem isn't WBL, but, once again, item crafting. Yawn.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's funny. While I do think the system has it's warts, you didn't even bring any of them up. Everything you did bring up is purely subjective.
Then when people dispute your points, you question their familiarity as if disagreeing with you is a sign of ignorance.
Look, the system isn't perfect. No system is. It works well enough for me though.
|
|
Or, you know, they just disagree with you?Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I don't see a problem with any of these really. I really think you need to explain what's wrong with these areas instead of just throwing them out there and expecting everyone to agree with you.
1: Magic Item Creation is simple and it works and if you don't like it then just ban it in your campaign.
2: Simulacrum seems fine to me. You make a weak copy of something and it costs a bunch of money. I don't see how that's a game breaker.
3: Ban the traits you don't like from your campaign.
4: They give you a pretty good rough outline and you DM will decide the specifics. That's why you have a DM.
5: Don't see a problem here. You're suppose to have more money as you level up.
I kind of feel like this might belong in the homebrew area
Are you actually familiar with the system?
It sounds like your not according to your responses.
It's not about disagreeing, it was a simple question because his answers didn't make sense. It seemed like he just wasn't familiar with the system by his responses.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It's not about disagreeing, it was a simple question because his answers didn't make sense. It seemed like he just wasn't familiar with the system by his responses.
The responses seemed fine to me. Perhaps your comprehension is the problem?
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
You know, you really should start 4 or 5 more threads on how broken item crafting is. People might miss the problem.
|
|
It's funny. While I do think the system has it's warts, you didn't even bring any of them up. Everything you did bring up is purely subjective.
Then when people dispute your points, you question their familiarity as if disagreeing with you is a sign of ignorance.
Look, the system isn't perfect. No system is. It works well enough for me though.
They aren't subjective because it's already been proven that they are a problem.
Don't mistake the fact that just because you can make them work doesn't mean they aren't broken and are in need of work.
Now you don't have to go by my list, you can present your own list because people may disagree with what you think needs work.
|
|
Lets take a look at one of your answers.
WBL: Now your response was that you are supposed to have more money as you level up. What kind of answer is that? Of course you are supposed to have more money because thingsget more expensive. The WBL does not work when you take crafting into consideration which is what we have been talking about.
Well you never said what was wrong with wealth by level. You just used an acronym that I assumed was wealth by level. For all I knew you had a problem with characters collecting more wealth as they leveled up.
Crafting and WBL has always worked just fine for me. If you're going to give your characters an infinite amount of time to craft whatever they want, then after they're done crafting just make sure you know what they have and adjust the treasure you're giving out accordingly. I don't give my characters an infinite amount of downtime though.
The Wealth by Level guide has always been an excellent resource for helping me make sure my player's have enough loot. Of course, my players know that taking crafting isn't going to allow them to become over-powered, it will merely give them easier access to some items. In the end I still decide how much money is out there.
You seem to be getting very excited, and forgetting things like spaces and grammar. Just for the ease of everyone reading, you might want to preview your post before submitting it.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
They aren't subjective because it's already been proven that they are a problem.
So, where is this proof?
The overall system of Pathfinder is great but there are a few area's that I feel need some attention. Now we all know that there is no perfect system but you can sit down and go through the books and point out those flaws that do exist and work on fixing them.
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I know there are others so I will post more as I think of them. I am pushing for an improved game because overall, it is a fantastic product and I feel it has room to grow in terms of quality.
1: I've never had any problems with the MIC system in my years of running Pathfinder. As a matter of fact, I enjoy it. It allows my players to be creative with their items. I know your argument is that it makes players too powerful by exceeding WBL, but if you take any optimized party that strictly follows WBL, they'll destroy any equal CR encounter. I also have a habit of giving my players item rewards instead of straight up gold. Then they have the choice of keeping said items, or selling them for 50% and crafting their own items. So they stay even with WBL.
The only time I see things really skyrocketing beyond the WBL in the book is when it starts getting into the 14-15 level range. In which case things are already so absurd it doesn't matter too much.
2: This I can agree with. There's a few spells that need some fine tuning. Although I don't agree that Simulacrum is one of them.
3: This is more of a problem with individual traits, not the whole system. I'm curious which ones you think are too good. But this isn't really a main concern about the game, as traits are a completely optional set of rules within the game. Could some traits use some changing? Probably. But I wouldn't say it's a major game problem.
4: RAW vs RAI gets argued on the forums constantly. So yeah, this is a problem at times. Not everything always makes sense to everyone. Sure, this could be changed, but again not a major issue. If a problem ever came up, GM fiat can easily take care of the problem. After the game, take it to the forums for clarification.
5: WBL is a guideline more than a hard rule. Deviating from it doesn't destroy the game system unless you're talking about like 5x+ WBL. But if you're allowing it to get that out of control, that's your failure as a DM. Not of the system.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They aren't subjective because it's already been proven that they are a problem.
You have objective, data driven, mathematically rigorous proof to provide? Otherwise, yes you are merely giving your subjective opinion. My subjective opinion disagrees. Well, there we are.
Don't mistake the fact that just because you can make them work doesn't mean they aren't broken and are in need of work.
So, just because people don't find an issue with them or find them to be broken, your opinion trumps all and we must adjust.
I hate the break it to you, but just because you think something is broken, doesn't mean it is.
Now you don't have to go by my list, you can present your own list because people may disagree with what you think needs work.
Honestly, I'm happy enough with the system and really am not in a mood to spend the effort to nitpick.
|
|
So you just want to point out what's wrong? I guess I don't understand why. So that the developers can see a list of things that you think are wrong? So people can offer suggestions on how to fix the problem? If people are going to offer suggestions then shouldn't this go in the suggestions area? Are you just trying to make some noise?
It seems like most of the people on here don't agree with you.
The overall system of Pathfinder is great but there are a few area's that I feel need some attention. Now we all know that there is no perfect system but you can sit down and go through the books and point out those flaws that do exist and work on fixing them.
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I know there are others so I will post more as I think of them. I am pushing for an improved game because overall, it is a fantastic product and I feel it has room to grow in terms of quality.
3. please show me one trait that is not worthless? +1 to reflex saves isnt really worth it to me for a trait. I notice i spend hours combing looking for a trait that doesn't suck....maybe +2 to int is okay but...
3. please show me one trait that is not worthless? +1 to reflex saves isnt really worth it to me for a trait. I notice i spend hours combing looking for a trait that doesn't suck....maybe +2 to int is okay but...
I think your definition of worthless and that of other people differ. Traits are ~1/2 a feat and the numbers reflect this. +1 on a reflex save is 1/2 of lighting reflexes. +2 on initiative is 1/2 improved initiative.
Some are a bit more funky, but generally that rule of thumb holds true.
Personally I find a lot of traits extremely worthwhile. The save boosting ones are great, as are ones which make skills into class skills.
It's a valid statement to say that 2 starting traits is equivalent to a bonus feat.
|
|
3. please show me one trait that is not worthless? +1 to reflex saves isnt really worth it to me for a trait. I notice i spend hours combing looking for a trait that doesn't suck....maybe +2 to int is okay but...The overall system of Pathfinder is great but there are a few area's that I feel need some attention. Now we all know that there is no perfect system but you can sit down and go through the books and point out those flaws that do exist and work on fixing them.
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I know there are others so I will post more as I think of them. I am pushing for an improved game because overall, it is a fantastic product and I feel it has room to grow in terms of quality.
Traits that grant you a skill as a class skill are too good in my opinion, especially Dangerously Curious.
In your opinion? I thought you had proof.
But you don't understand- his opinion is proof.
Traits that grant you a skill as a class skill are too good in my opinion, especially Dangerously Curious.3. please show me one trait that is not worthless? +1 to reflex saves isnt really worth it to me for a trait. I notice i spend hours combing looking for a trait that doesn't suck....maybe +2 to int is okay but...The overall system of Pathfinder is great but there are a few area's that I feel need some attention. Now we all know that there is no perfect system but you can sit down and go through the books and point out those flaws that do exist and work on fixing them.
Here are a few areas that I see a problem with.
1: Magic Item Creation system.
2: Certain spells in the game such as Simulacrum.
3: Traits (Some are just too damn good).
4: Ways some things are written so they are not clear in their intent.
5: WBL.
I know there are others so I will post more as I think of them. I am pushing for an improved game because overall, it is a fantastic product and I feel it has room to grow in terms of quality.
I actually disagree with this. I like the fact that you can pick a class skill that isn't normally in your list. Allows for good customization, like if I want my fighter to have Diplomacy, or my Cleric to has Acrobatics, etc. I'd be okay with losing the +1 bonus in addition to making it a class skill, but I'd hate to see this trait go.
While I don't agree with one, I can agree to 4. There are some wording issues that I'd like to see cleared up. I still don't think the "Simulacrum Magic Factory" is an issue, from a previous post I made. But, Simulacrum into an Efreet might be problematic.