Character advice sought - scout + tank

[Just a Mort]

Hi - I'm trying to create a scout who can tank for the party, and this is what I came up with:

Aasimar (with racial mods after angel blooded alternative heritige)

Str - 16
Dex - 10
Con - 14
Int - 14
Wis - 10
Cha - 16

RP correct progression: 2 levels of pally, 1 lv of oracle (lore), then rest levels of Archaeologist bard.

For easier playability: start with oracle (lore), 2 levels of pally, then rest levels of Archaeologist bard.

Deity: Probably Shelyn(any other suggestions on this?)

Revelation (lore):
Side step secret

Traits:
Reactionary, (any trait which makes either perception or disable device as a class skill - not sure which)

Feats:
Lv 1 - Noble Scion (Scion of war)
Lv 3 - Power attack?
Lv 5 - Angelic blood
Lv 7 - Arcane strike?
Lv 9 - ?
Lv 11 - Angel wings

Rogue talents from (Archaeologist bard): Trap spotter, cant think what to take for the rest.

Skills - stealth, perception, disable device, umd(?), diplo, fly,knowledge planes,local.

Suggestions? Or are there any other classes that I could carry out the scout + tank concept. The issue about tanking I want decent saves to be able to take the brunt of whatever Im thrown at. Semi-decent ac is also required of course.

[Blueluck]

Aside from bonuses to saving throws, I'm not sure what makes this character a "Tank". He has mostly d8 hit dice, a moderate CON score, and constitutes a minor threat in combat.

What characteristics are you primarily looking for in a character?

[Just a Mort]

I generally play in a group of 3 people(as in max group size = 3). So its like you have to take multiple roles, or just do without them. Typically the problem with the rogue "Scout the area out first" has usually resulted in a rogue getting bitten by a Ghoul and never making it back.

The GM is rather stingy on gear and no time for crafting. If you dont have a magic weapon and run into incorps or DR/magic, too bad for joo. Also most monsters we end up facing have some kind of nasty SLA/poison/SR etc. You end up making a LOT of saves.

Party wants to be entirely flying and everyone is expected to fly on their own without spell assistance from anyone since scrolls are scarce.
I could have tried doing this with a dwarf urban ranger, but I have no clue how to get a ranger to fly. Boon companion is not allowed, and we dont do leadership either.

Ideally I want someone who can scout + disable device(GM is fond of traps), and act as a meatshield for the group.

[blackbloodtroll]

Inquisitor is the key choice for a Scout/Tank.

Slap three levels in Trapper/Shapshifter Ranger, and then Heretic Inquisitor of Irori.

You will want to be Garuda-Blooded or Archon-Blooded Aasimar.
I will also suggest being Middle Aged, and taking the Immortal Spark alternate racial trait.

For traits, I suggest Tusked and Wisdom of the Flesh(choose Disable Device).

You will have three primary natural attacks, the ability to Disable Magical traps(using wisdom), the ability to self pump, and all the requirements for Eldritch Claws and Feral Combat Training.

Scout, fight, disable traps, and be less gear dependent.

[Ravingdork]

Tank scout? Play a fighter with the Additional Traits feat and two traits that make Perception and Stealth class skills. Throw a few feats, like Skill Focus, on top and you're golden.

[blackbloodtroll]

Note: Find Traps is an Inquisitor spell.

[Just a Mort]

Interesting..any way of getting evasion? Sometimes traps go off with a big Boom and I rather not be on the receiving end of it. But I didnt think of inquisitor really - I tend to play arcane casters to begin with.

[blackbloodtroll]

Well, there is the Ring of Evasion.

Another way, is to choose the Eagle Domain, and at 10th level, take the Angel Wings feat. You will have Evasion, and Improved Evasion whilst flying.

Also makes for a great scout.

[Atarlost]

If you need to be able to fly and scout and tank you might consider a "failed druid." Take 4 levels of druid, shaping focus, and the rest of your levels in a full BAB class. This lets you turn into anything from an Allosaurus to a thrush.

Barbarian may be the best choice for the martial levels if you're going to be limited on wealth. Invulnerable Rager will get you DR and Urban Barbarian will prevent rage from sacking your AC and give you the option of raging to dexterity for even more AC or stealth. The d12 hit die won't hurt either.

You probably want a trait for stealth if they're available, but at level 6 you have +4 over even a small character if shaping for stealth so if you can't have traits it's not the end of the world. At level 8 you can get +12 to stealth rolls and even if someone spots you, hey, you're just a wren or a bat.

[blackbloodtroll]

With the above build, you will add wisdom to Stealth, use wisdom for Disable Device, and add wisdom to Initiative.

Also, you should check out the Guided enchantment.

Slap that on a Amulet of Mighty Fists, and you will be a very SAD PC.

[Just a Mort]

Eagle is an idea since wisdom in flesh is a religion trait - unsure if you can take heretic archetype after that.

Where is the trait to give primary bite attack - the only trait I found was razortusk (half orc) - which states on a full attack with more then one nat weapon bite is considered secondary.

Assuming a guided AMOF is not available - what would the stat distribution be like?

I.e. Str 16, dex 14, con 14, int 10, wis 16 cha 10?

Shaping focus is not allowed either, sadly :(

I suppose if wis was high enough(assuming guided AMOF allowed), might be better off with mage armor + 2 levels of monk?

I did try MMOS + quis before but it didnt work out well. Insufficient hp+ ac + to hit(and damage).

[blackbloodtroll]

Heretical Inquisitor does not some how negate the fact that you still worship the god.

Also, note this important entry in the Domain ability of the Inquisitor:

Advanced Player's Guide wrote:

Like a cleric’s deity, an inquisitor’s deity influences her alignment, what magic she can perform, and her values. Although not as tied to the tenets of the deity as a cleric, an inquisitor must still hold such guidelines in high regard, despite that fact she can go against them if it serves the greater good of the faith. An inquisitor can select one domain from among those belonging to her deity. She can select an alignment domain only if her alignment matches that domain. With the GM’s approval, an inquisitor can be devoted to an ideal instead of a deity, selecting one domain to represent her personal inclination and abilities. The restriction on alignment domains still applies.

I would also dump charisma. The Inquisitor does social skills just fine without charisma.

[Prophes0r]

How about an Alchemist?

DD, UMD are class skills.

Hobgoblin gets

+2 Dex
+2 Con
+4 to stealth
Darkvision 60ft

Hobbos are a military society. I think of them like Klingons. Not "evil" just warlike.

Taking 1 level as a martial class first then the rest as Alchemist is both mechanically a good idea, and also totally flavor appropriate. Hobgoblins are trained from youth to be warriors, even if they never make it past the initial training. This will get you better armor, and weapon proficiencies. Or grab the alternate racial trait that trades the stealth bonus for 1 melee weapon prof and +1 to bluff/diplomacy.

[Stome]

Yeah honestly if you wanted to go archeologist bard (an archetype I very much like.) You need to remember a few things. They do not gain more rounds of their luck ability as you lvl. So the trait to add rounds is a good option.

Then With lingering performance you should be alright as you can now get 3 rounds for 1.

If you want to "tank" you are going to need HP. Honestly I would forget all the dips and consider dragon disciple. With the Str boost you will want to use a two handed weapon.

I suggest a longspear so down the road you can look into the Flagbarrer feat with the Banner of the Ancient Kings. Even if not a reach weapon is the best option.

As for not having magic weapons. Arcane strike feat is already a good feat for any arcane melee. Even better in this case.

Though Inq is not at all a bad suggestion. Its a very good one in fact. They also get track which helps a great deal in this rile. If you find you need to be more durable thy have judgments for that.

[blackbloodtroll]

Oh, and the Inquisitor doesn't have to worry about silly things like "spell failure".

Rock that Mithral Creeping Fullplate.

[Vaellen]

How about Fighter(Lore Warden) 5, Monk (MoMF)2, and then Duelist? Your AC will be sky high (with Crane Style), saves decent, with lots of skill points to take perception and stealth. Your HP will not be great but with all of your other defenses that should not be a deal breaker.

[blackbloodtroll]

By the way, the Trapper Ranger/Heretic Inquisitor does not need to be natural attack based to work either.

With things like the Effortless Armor spell, you can creep down and scout with your Fullplate and Heavy Shield, better than any Rogue.

[Prophes0r]

Alchemist's don't NEED to be natural attack based. I personally feel it's a bit cheesy.

[Prophes0r]

What were his base stats?

[joeyfixit]

You might look into a rogue 1/barbarian x combo. My cleric went down mid-session and I picked up a half-elf Rogue/Barb from a player who recently moved away (an example of why it's a good idea to leave sheets with the DM).

Half-Elf isn't a necessity, but you might want to give Rogue/Barb a spin.

[Prophes0r]

Alchemists can get a +4 bonus to Str or Dex or Con for an ever increasing amount of time per day.

They can also get wings.

The Master Chymist Prestige class lets is made for alchemists. It is a full BAB PRC that gives even more power to mutagens.

Alchemist bombs can also be used for ok damage, or utility (dispelling/tanglefoot/stinking cloud).

If you are going to be doing scouting, it means you value preparation. Alchemists excel when allowed to prepare. They also get the cure line of spells.

Another neat trick is a second level spell called "Alchemical Allocation". It lets you drink a potion or elixir, and spit it back into the bottle unused, while still gaining the effects.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Druid is an amazing scout between super high Perception (Grab Feather domain to pump it higher, too!) and the ability to turn into harmless-looking animals. Druid is also a great tank, able to pull nice natural armor from wildshape forms and buff it with Bark skin. If you really want to go nuts, dip a level of MoMS Monk at any odd level and pick up Crane Wing along with wisdom to AC.

Synthesist Summoner is also a good choice, because they can do nearly any role well. Obviously a combat monster, but also comes with darkvision and Skilled evo for a +8 boost to whatever you need, plus easy access to flight and other special movement modes.

[Nicos]

Ravingdork wrote:

Tank scout? Play a fighter with the Additional Traits feat and two traits that make Perception and Stealth class skills. Throw a few feats, like Skill Focus, on top and you're golden.

I like ingleclassed figther but in this case I think is better to obtain that class skills from a dip into another class.

[Petty Alchemy]

Howdy. I've got a build similar to what Vaellen suggested.

I'm playing a Halfling Fighter4/Master of Many Styles2/Aldori Swordlord1/Kensai Magus 1.

You don't need to multiclass that much, the core of it is being a halfling with a level in Aldori Swordlord, having Crane Style/Wing, and Cautious Fighter (and Risky Striker for offense).

Thus my level 8 (25 PB) character has 35 AC when fighting defensively (and can autoblock one melee attack a round with Crane Wing). He could wear heavy mithral armor, but I prefer mobility (speaking of, be sure to get that alt racial that gives you 30ft speed as a halfling) so I've got a mithral chain shirt.

So I'm sitting at +22 stealth just by putting ranks into it, pretty much no effort required. If you want, you can get Shadow on your armor for +3,750gp, and that'll give you +5 competence to stealth.

[Just a Mort]

Syn resulted getting a book thrown at me. And sadly most traps we are coming by now are magical and reset - so I need trapfinding. If I were to stat up a quis on a 20 point buy how should it look like? I prefer flat miss chance(displacement or mirror image or blur)/blocks instead of ac since at higher levels everything seems to hit you fine anyway