Prophes0r's page

More "fun" that was NOT fixed RAW. Seriously, the note below the errata stated that this was not working RAI, yet they still published the RAW errata that supports it...

Inappropriately Sized Firearms: You cannot make optimum use of a firearm that is not properly sized for you. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between your size and the size of the firearm. If you are not proficient with the firearm, a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies. The size of a firearm never affects how many hands you need to use to shoot it...

Medium Pistol, double-barreled
-0 to hit
1d8

Large Pistol, double-barreled
-2 to hit
2d6

Huge Pistol, double-barreled
-4 to hit
3d6

IMO huge is not worth it, but large sure as hell is...

There is a few very simple reasons this problem exists and I can think of 2 ways to combat it.

One reason this problem exists is because we as players, GMs and game designers think with the rules we know. The game universe is close enough to our own universe that we fall back into the mindset of our own experience, which is FAR more limiting than the actual in game physical laws.

Here is a small example of what I mean.

Imagine the classical medieval world. You wish to protect yourself and your community from a neighboring warlike culture. What structures would you build?

Now, without further instructions, you will PROBABLY assume that these neighbors are human. You know what it takes to keep humans out of a space. You might build a castle, but a wall is easier and can effect a larger area more cheaply.

What if those neighbors are 6 foot eagles? Your wall/castle is now nearly worthless. It may even be worse for you than the birds. If your primary enemy can fly, your technology and strategy will be based around combating flying creatures. You probably never build castles, or at least not the classical stone ones.

What if your enemy can control/create fire? Well, you probably don't use flammable equipment to build things, even if that can get very inconvenient.

The game worlds we play in are usually meant to feel familiar enough to us that we can relate, yet they have WILD inconsistencies because those familiar things would probably never have been invented, or ever used in a world where they are irrelevant/inefficient/worthless.

This mindset extends even further. The very ideas that these worlds are built on suffers from the same problems. This is going to seem like I am nit-picking, but it is very important to understand these things in order to see the real problems.

More than half of what you think of as "magic" are NOT magic. I'm talking about you arcane magic...you are not magic. You are also not arcane, at least from an outside point of view. If you follow the "rules" you are not magic, you are physics. If people understand how you work, you are not "arcane". In fact, "Arcane Magic" is by definition mundane (Of this earthly world rather than a heavenly or spiritual one). The ONLY magic in the fantasy worlds we play in is "Divine Magic" because it explicitly does not follow the in-universe rules. Though even this can be argued against, because the gods can change the rules to make things happen.

Something is arcane when people don't understand how it works. This does not mean that people don't know that it DOES work, simply that they don't know exactly why. Cell phones are not magic, but they are arcane. A cell phone in Pathfinder is STILL not magic (it is most certainly arcane though), unless the in game physics do not allow for the mechanisms required for a cellphone to work of course.

Calling these abilities magic is a fundamental part of the issue. It tells us that these abilities are not going to be fully explained, which creates a problem when we try to relate to it. If we can't relate to it, we can't think with it. This means we can only use things in the ways that are explicitly defines in the rules we know. Worse, there are glaring inconsistencies with these systems as RAW and RAI. In the best scenarios, you are given a result, and a set of circumstances that can bring it about. Worst case, you are only given a result.

Example time...Burning Hands & Shocking Grasp

Burning hands makes fire. Even though we don't know HOW it makes this fire, at least the fire acts like "regular" fire. It sets flammable things on fire. Since it follows many of the rules we know, it is not too hard to work with. However, it sometimes does things that do not make sense to us, even if it is perfectly natural in-game, such as still working in a vacuum or underwater.

Shocking grasp, well, shocks people(?). This one is kind of a problem. I know how electricity works in my universe, but there is little reason for me to believe that it works the same in-game. Being able to shock someone by touching them WITHOUT taking damage yourself does not "make sense" because it follows rules different from the ones we experience. If this rule is different, what else is? Can I hold a 10 foot metal pole and shock people through that? How can I shock people through leather gloves? There is no way to answer these questions unless you made the universe, or you know ALL the rules.

So how do we fix these problems? I did say I had 2 ways. Unfortunately they both suck.

Solution 1 is suspension of disbelief. You simply accept that these problems are just how they work, and let the GM make all decisions to tell a good story. Don't justify things too much because you will never get from point A to point B. This can be very unsatisfying since you can't learn from your actions. The only rule is that the story gets told. But if things only happen to advance the story, then how did we get things like carts? We had to follow SOME rules to get there. How do we invent things if they don't follow rules? Why do I bother doing ANYTHING if the story is going to ruin it, or make it happen without my effort anyway...Stop, just go with it. That is the point. Calm down and enjoy yourself.

Solution 2 is to explain every rule that affects the game universe. Every rule. This would be perfect if it was feasible, since everything would make perfect sense. It's not however. Not even close to possible. We can't even explain our own universe, and people can't pull power from another dimension with their willpower and use it to shoot fire from their hands in this one.

TL;DR

This problem is the same as discussing how player 2 has an advantage in a game of Tic-Tac-Toe. Once you know the advantage is there, you work with it. Either ignore it because you enjoy having to struggle to succeed(or you enjoy losing), or exploit it to become more powerful because that is how ecosystems work. If your character had access to your knowledge they would be stupid not to exploit it.

As to crafting during higher level character creation. There are 2 general ways of doing this.

1. As others have stated (including Paizo) having the feat allows you to craft during character creation at cost.

2. Equip characters reasonably at EVERY level based on the budget they would have at that level. This way requires much more work.

Method 1 ends up more powerful because 100% of the characters budget goes to their current equipment. They basically walk around naked until they hit level 9 (example) and find a chest of loot.

Method 2 requires work between the GM and Player. If you are a Dwarf fighter that uses axes, you should be buying the best armor and axe that you could reasonably be expected to afford at level 1. Then at level 2, you would buy more gear, and also presumably sell the previous gear you no longer need at a big loss. This method is MUCH more organic, and ends up with a character that makes "sense" but is a LOT more work.

Method 2 also avoids the problem of X% of wealth devoted to a single item. Because at most you can devote 1 level at a time towards items. You could pay to add additional enchants with an entire level of gold, but you can do this while playing the character regularly too. It would also justify those items as legitimate if you built up their power in the course of your characters un-played career as well.

WOW, how did I possibly miss that line about Crit confirmation. I retract that portion of the statement. The rest still stands though. At level 9 as a "battle" cleric you should still be concerned with crit range and multiplier over raw dice.

If you want a "plausible" explanation of how something with a negative mass might act/react, think about what mass does.

Mass affects how much gravity an object exerts on other objects with mass.
Mass determines an objects resistance to acceleration.

You could go a few ways with this. Perhaps negative mass has its own properties unlike regular mass. Maybe it has properties in direct opposition of regular mass (anti gravity is easy to implement, extra acceleration is not). Or it could behave exactly the same as normal mass, but only towards other objects of negative mass.

Also, objects do not "Float". They simply get pushed out of the way by other more massive objects. A helium filled balloon does not move upwards on it's own. The heavier air pushes it out of the way, in the direction of less heavy air (which happens to be up).

Again, you are limiting yourself to trying to explain things using the physics of the world YOU live in.

If I am making the rules of a universe, I can create negative mass, Ultra-Darkenss or Nega-Sound. I don't NEED to explain how these things work, its MAGIC. I only need to explain how they affect other things within the context of the game system.

Think of it this way. Warp drives exist in the context of many Sci-Fi worlds. They run on Antimater (or dilithium). They may even have complicated schematics. But they break OUR laws of physics.

That does not mean that they don't exist, and don't work in the worlds they were created in.

"Lighter than vacuum?"

Not even magic can make matter have less mass than no mass.

Um, its a game. And it has Magic. Magic is literaly something that takes laws, and ignores them. You can make whatever you want.

As a side note, you don't have to beat a DC 30 STR check to move an immovible rod. You can turn it off. You just need the multiple rods to be able to support the weight without gravity beating that DC 30 STR check for you.

I personaly think and Inchworm-drive airship is an awesome idea. People build them in minecraft all the time.

Step 1 - Arms extend deactivated Rods, then activate them.

Step 2 - Ship slides foreward to be supported by step 1 rods.

Step 3 - Old rods deactivate and get pulled back under ship

Step 4 - Activate step 3 rods, deactivate step 1 rods. Repeat.

Or have the rods be like tank treads. The ones that are under the ship are active. The last one behind the ship gets turned off and then pulled up and over the ship until it is underneath the front again, the reactivated.

You are a Half-Orc, and high enough level that Crit range is worth FAR more than damage dice to you. Why aren't you using a Falchion? A Keen one at that. Remember, a high crit range is not just for crits.

Lets say you have a 15-20 crit range. And you need an 18 to hit.

A 15 will still threaten. Even if you don't confirm the crit, you still hit.

If you can build it from scratch, there are TONS of options.

This is an issue with game design. Not a problem, an issue. An NPC SHOULDN'T be the equal of a party member, unless they are designed for the ENTIRE party to fight that NPC alone. D&D style games designed around the idea of party vs. Mass, balanced against party vs.boss.

This is not a realistic sim by any means. As long as all the players at the table are equally optimized, and they all want to play the same type of game, balance the game to them.

Also, AC and DP/R are probably the poorest examples of power gaming. Damage means nothing if they never get a chance to attack. AC means nothing if they cant use it, or cant avoid it. Power gaming would be getting very good AC + damage + powers that give you utility in every possible situation.

A well built magic user with means of scouting and the forethought to prepare is FAR more powerful than a horde of OMGDAMAGE characters.

I'm going to be bringing a Quickdraw mithril shield and a 1 handed weapon around for when I don't have the time to cast shield and use my 2hander.

I'm going to try and bring multiple damage types, since we use the damage type rules for things like undead, though we usually find it too much trouble to figure it out for every NPC armor type.

What 1 handed weapon should I use?

2-h weapon?
Greatsword / Greataxe / Falchion?

Reach weapon maybe?
I was a slave for a bit, so I could switch out my Orc weapon proficiency for the one that gives me spiked chain.

wait....

So with the Alchemy skill I can make mundane items (Alchemical Cartridges) at 1/3 the cost. But when I get the Gunsmithing feat, suddenly I can only make them at 1/2 the cost?

The rest of the party is already set, they have been playing since level 3. We will work on some synergy later on when the party and I can stand each other.

We are only working together because the local lord is paying me, and threatened us with prison labor if we caused harm to each other.

At the moment my character only relies or trusts himself. So he wouldn't incorporate others into his strategy. He is going to have to learn that a group is much more that the sum of it's parts.

It is actually cheaper to make regular ammo and add adamantine Weapon Blanch to it.

20 rounds of Adamantite ammo costs 406gp to make.

or

21 regular rounds = 7gp
2 doses of Adamantine Weapon Blanch (effects 10 rounds each) = 66gp

total = 73gp

I'm planning on having a bunch of variable ammo. And I can make items during character creation at material cost. Which is 1/3 the cost FYI.

Weapon Blanch looks like a great cheap alternative for prepping lots of ammo with materials.

How many Adamantine/Silver/Cold-Iron rounds should I be sporting?

What poisons are cost effective?

I'm definitely going to be using a Cold-Iron Silver spiked gauntlet. No more being unarmed/disarmed. No weapon slot needed.

A cold-iron spiked gauntlet only costs 10gp, or 3.3gp if I make it myself.

Wow, I hadn't thought of that powder keg idea. Then I went to look it up. A Keg costs 1000gp. Even making it myself costs 333Gp

Pistol reloads start as a standard. Alchemical rounds makes it Move, Rapid Reload makes it a free action.

Just 1 feat required for pistols.

I'm thinking my main gun will be a double pistol. And carry a dragon pistol with salt rounds for non lethal.

Large double pistol is 2d6 damage at -2 to hit. Plus I can fire it twice without reloading, or I can fire both rounds at once at another -4 if need be.

I'm gonna start arming my party with Launching crossbows and Alchemists Fire once we settle our differences.

How is a discovery that makes my bullet a bomb, but restricts me to having to hit the target with my shot, better than me just throwing a bomb, or shooting multiple bullets?

I could see it being cool if I was focused on long range musket shots, with a distance weapon, and the scope that lets me hit touch AC out to maximum range. Putting a bomb in someones face at 800 feet could be cool.

But it sounds like a lot of investment for a very minor increase in utility. I'm thinking that smoke/stink bombs provide me WAY more utility by making cover and Nausea.

A "Saw Backed" sword acts like a saw, without having to carry extra gear.

Anyone know how weapon materials effect this augmentation?

If I have a saw backed adamantine longsword, can I use it to cut through harder materials? Like metal bars?

That is a really well built character. Seems to fit together nicely.

I'm still looking for gear and strategy input. I just haven't had time to look over EVERY piece of gear to see how it interacts with everything else. Any ideas?

I know I want a Handy Haversack, and the big lost of mundane gear I always grab (on characters that are smart enough at least).

I don't see any reason I couldn't use that Crossbow anyway. It is a Martial weapon. Gunslingers get All Martial weapons.

I did look at inquisitor as well. But for 1 level, I get WAY more things from Gunslinger.

This character has already been encountered, and has already used guns. So guns are a must. He was not at all fleshed out though. That is why I'm building him now, after he has technically bee "played" for part of an encounter.

I suppose he could be a spellslinger or another Gun toting Archetype. But I seem to get strictly less things from those alternate classes.

This character is kind of being used to see how alchemy works in pathfinder, and for us to learn the gun rules for a possible upcoming Wyrd West style adventure.

OOHH you meant

Beneficial Bandolier

That makes it a swift action.

Ahh I was looking for one of those Bandoliers to go with my Handy Haversack. But it does not do anything more than storage.

Endless Bandolier

Since I don't get free reloads, I feel that musket master is strictly inferior to Guntank + Pistolero.

I suppose another option Would be to go with a pepper-box pistol. That is 6 shots with free action reloads instead of 2 shots without reloading with the double pistol.

I can get free action reloads with pistolero with the Quick reload feat + Alchemical Rounds.

I'm a 7' Half-Orc no kobold business for me

Alchemists can get a +4 bonus to Str or Dex or Con for an ever increasing amount of time per day.

They can also get wings.

The Master Chymist Prestige class lets is made for alchemists. It is a full BAB PRC that gives even more power to mutagens.

Alchemist bombs can also be used for ok damage, or utility (dispelling/tanglefoot/stinking cloud).

If you are going to be doing scouting, it means you value preparation. Alchemists excel when allowed to prepare. They also get the cure line of spells.

Another neat trick is a second level spell called "Alchemical Allocation". It lets you drink a potion or elixir, and spit it back into the bottle unused, while still gaining the effects.

What were his base stats?

Alchemist's don't NEED to be natural attack based. I personally feel it's a bit cheesy.

Yes. Treat this as an Level 5 Alchemist build. But With access to light/medium/heavy armor, shields(including tower), all Martial Weapons.

FYI. A Large Double Pistol is 2d6 damage, still a 1 handed weapon, and you only take -2 to hit. You can also choose to fire both barrels at once with -4 to hit on each attack. Adding the distance enchant means I'm still targeting touch AC at 40 feet. It's expensive though.

I'm thinking my 2 discoveries need to be smoke and stink bomb. Infusion makes sense mechanically, but I can't justify it in the character back story. I'll probably pick it up at alchemist 6 though after he becomes a proper party member and less of a loner.

I can always add Unstable Accelerant to some prepared bombs if I want to add damage. But I'm thinking he uses his 10 bombs a day on area control/denial.

He should have plenty of non lethal options. Not for moral reasons, he couldn't care less. Strictly because many bounties pay more for live capture.

How about an Alchemist?

DD, UMD are class skills.

Hobgoblin gets

+2 Dex
+2 Con
+4 to stealth
Darkvision 60ft

Hobbos are a military society. I think of them like Klingons. Not "evil" just warlike.

Taking 1 level as a martial class first then the rest as Alchemist is both mechanically a good idea, and also totally flavor appropriate. Hobgoblins are trained from youth to be warriors, even if they never make it past the initial training. This will get you better armor, and weapon proficiencies. Or grab the alternate racial trait that trades the stealth bonus for 1 melee weapon prof and +1 to bluff/diplomacy.

Alchemist Archetypes?

Chirugeon

Pro

• I can infuse cure extracts without having to take the discovery
  
• Free "Skill Focus (Heal)"
  
• Always do minimum damage when using heal. Stuff like removing hooks and barbs.
  
• If I actually get to level 10 Alchemist, I get "breath of Life" as a spell, and it can get infused as a cure spell.

• Lose Poison use
  
• Lose Poison resistance +4
  
• I end up gaining +2 @ Alchemist 2
  
• +4 @ Alchemist 8
  
• Lose Poison Immunity

BeastMorph

Pro

• When using Mutagen, get an ability from Alter self. Adds more utility to mutagens
  
• Level 6 in Alchemist gets me 2 abilities from Beast Shape I (includes all abilities from Alter Self).
  
• If I ever get to Alchemist 10 I get 3 abilities from Beast Shape II

• Lose Swift Alchemy - Makes having tons of utility alchemy items a bit harder to keep stocked.
  
• Lose Swift Poisoning - Not that painful considering you also...
  
• Lose Poison resistance +2/+4/+6 and poison immunity

Grenadier

Pro

• Proficiency in 1 Martial Weapon - Worthless since I already have all Martial Weapons from Gunslinger.
  
• Alchemical Weapon - infuse a weapon or piece of ammunition with a single harmful alchemical liquid or powder, such as alchemist’s fire or sneezing powder, as a move action.
  
• Free Discovery - Precise Bombs
  
• Directed Blast - Bomb can become a cone attack...Only 1 target gets hit with the primary charge, others are splash. Meh
  
• If I ever reach Alchemist 10 my bombs stagger if they crit. Fort save negates.

• Lose Brew potion - This one hurts enough that I feel I'd need to spend a feat to get this again.
  
• Lose all Poison Resistance
  
• Lose Poison use
  
• Lose Swift Poisoning
  
• Lose Poison Immunity

How much am I actually giving up with these? Are poisons worth anything? Are Alchemical items worth even using?

Give me some examples.

Blunderbuss is a cone not a splash.

I understand that Gunslinger 5 is more optimal with guns, but it puts everything alchemist related completely out of reach.

The core of the build must be 5 levels of alchemist.

The "Batman" character uses gear/planning/strategy/wide training to overcome problems instead of natural talent. How can I use combinations of gear and tricks to make 1 level of Gunslinger viable?

If this means using a Large Double musket while we close, then switching to melee, I'm fine with that. The goal is to be passable at everything, without being a Star at anything.

The only "primary" I would consider myself is battlefield control.

Was he "clipped" or "Cut out"? Those are 2 totally different types of punishments.

Clipped involves removing about an inch of tongue. He will speak very poorly, and people will know it was done on purpose.

If it is cut out, there is little tongue left. Talking will sound like he has no tongue. Try to talk for a minute using only your throat. Just let your tongue lie flat in your mouth and keep all but the very back part that closes your throat relaxed and still. It would sound like that. Communication would basically involve nothing but growls, yelps of pain, contemplative "HRMMmmm" sounds and questioning "hrmMMM?" sounds.

The problem with this is that you have 3 players wanting to play 1 way, and a 4th wanting to play a different way. Either one group changes, or they will both be dragging each other down.

If the Dwarf was handicapping himself to see how well he could play an intentionally bad character, that would be one thing. But it sounds like he is more interested in playing his concept than playing the game.

All players need to make a character that is going to work with the group in some way, unless you build your game around the idea that they DON'T work together. Otherwise he is going to be putting his own fun ahead of the other 3 players fun, which is not cool.

Also, while the players have a good reason to have all 4 characters in the same place, do the characters have a reason? If they pity him and decide to "carry" him, and the players are cool with it, you are fine. If he is more trouble than he is worth, why wouldn't they kick him out and hire a new guy who isn't going to be a boat anchor?

The Idea that players can just play the way they want is rubbish. This is a "Team Sport". You can do ANYTHING you like in your games, as long as the whole table is on board with it. But when 1 person wants to pull the game in a different direction, it stops being fun for the rest.

Seriously, anything. I played a game where all 5 players were "Awakened" pets of a druid who was killed in the first play session, and they went on an epic animal adventure...

I have enough gold that I'm going to take pretty much all the 1st, and nearly all the 2nd level extracts.

The only damaging extract I see myself actually using is Blistering Invective. There is something about yelling insults at your enemies so hard they catch on fire.

I also think I'm going to be a skill dipper. Probably grab the Highlander trait to add sneak. Between the 2 classes, grab all 4 Knowledge skills. Grab all other class skills between the 2 classes. Grab Craft Alchemy/Armor/Books/Clothing?/Leather/Locks/Shoes?/Siege Engine?/Traps/Weapons

Keep UMD/Stealth/Acrobatics/Perception maxed. Are there soft caps for these?

Do I go Straight Gunslinger?
Musket master (never getting Free Action Reloads?)
Guntank/Pistolero for Medium/Heavy/Shields and Grit to damage pistols

Hello forums. I'm looking for some advice building my "Bounty Hunter". I'm a long time Tabletop gamer, but this is my first Pathfinder game. My gaming group expects me (once again) to pull a "Batman" character out of my butt to fill in the gaps. But I'm not that comfortable with Pathfinder.

Design Goals

• Be versatile.
  
• Probably the groups skill monkey
  
• Backup healing
  
• Secondary melee
  
• Better than average at ranged.
  
• Not be TOO good as to make other characters redundant
  

House rules to be made aware of

• We like small parties. Noe leadership style feats.
  
• Loopholes and cheese are frowned upon.
  
• Alchemists are arcane casters. They qualify for feats.
  
• Alchemical buffs are affected by dispel/anti-magic
  
• All official Paizo material is in
  
• No Vivisectionist. Seriously Paizo, you couldn't think of a name and flavor that didn't have such a serial killer vibe to it? Vivisection means to dissect a creature while still alive, and attempting to keep it alive as long as possible just to study it.
  

For flavor reasons here is what needs to be in the build.

• Half-Orc
  
• Alchimist primary class
  
• Uses guns
  
• Lawful-Neutral
  
• Character was raised by Orcs so Orc feats/Traits are fair game
  
• Character starts at level 6 w/ 16,000 gold
  
• I'm allowed to craft items during character creation at cost, including magic items if I buy the feat.
  
• Here is what I rolled for Stats
  
• 18
  
• 16
  
• 16
  
• 15
  
• 14
  
• 12
  

Setting/Party

• Edge of the empire in some backwater fort in the woods. 2 Months from civilization. Lord has workers building a road through the woods. Caravans bring supplies weekly, but they are mundane equipment.
  
• Character will be lucky to hit level 12 so build for level 6, with a little room to grow.
  

• Catfolk Rogue - Likes Bows - 5/10 Optimized
  
• Human Bard - 20 Charisma - probably well made, player does not optimize much though 5/10
  
• Halfling Monk - good player but sounds sub-optimal 6/10
  

I'm thinking Gunslinger 1/Alchemist 5

• Strength 14 (switch with Wisdom?)
  
• Dexterity 16
  
• Constitution 15 (bump to 16 @ level 4)
  
• Intelligence 18 (racial bump to 20)
  
• Wisdom 16 (switch to Strength?)
  
• Charisma 12

• Use bombs for utility smoke/stink
  
• Character has lived in Katapesh and Katheer. But moves around a lot as a bounty hunter.
  
• He is a complete pragmatist. If it is useful he uses it, unless it is TERRIBLY evil.
  

What kind of strategies should I employ?

Gear?

Just to be clear, what kind of world are we talking about?

If it is a generic level of magic, regeneration is available to people of the "adventuring" class.

If it is a legal punishment, and forbidden to fix, or magically enforced in some way, then your in a whole different ballpark.

Spell-casting is out or MAYBE an 80% failure chance. A character that loses both arms at the elbow won't be doing much casting either, same effect. Now, there is little reason he can't RE-learn to cast, given enough practice, but probably not feasible in the short term.

If they are not a caster, well, not that big a deal. Heck, it could even be flavor. There are plenty of characters that never utter a word out of combat anyway. Depends on how creative you want to get.