Self-explanatory: can you disarm a spell component pouch? Can you disarm it while it's on their person? How about when they are manipulating it with their hands (by readying an action to disarm?)
If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands (maximum two items if the target has more than two hands). If your attack fails by 10 or more, you drop the weapon that you were using to attempt the disarm. If you successfully disarm your opponent without using a weapon, you may automatically pick up the item dropped.
Does the bolded section mean only objects held in hand can be disarmed? So if the pouch is at someone's hip do you need a Steal maneuver to take it? What if the pouch is in their hand, does disarm work then?
Or is it better just to sunder it? What is the hp/hardness of a spell component pouch?
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There have been threads on this subject and sundering spell component pouches before.
I think the general consensus is that this is allowable by RAW, but that GMs sundering PC spell component pouches is sorta frowned on.
Disarming them, knocking it out of their hands so they have to pick it back up is much "nicer" than sundering one, but if that becomes a standard GM tactic (and is successful enough) then you start getting into "making the game unfun" for a caster.
There have been threads on this subject and sundering spell pouches before.
I think the general consensus is that this is allowable by RAW, but that GMs sundering PC spell component pouches is sorta frowned on.
Disarming them, knocking it out of their hands so they have to pick it back up is much "nicer" than sundering one, but if that becomes a standard GM tactic (and is successful enough) then you start getting into "making the game unfun" for a caster.
I'm asking as a PC, although I suppose "what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander." I'm trying to get the most out of my whip, and trying to figure out how to best shut down casters.
(At first I was planning some complicated tactics like: "I ready to trip him if he moves, attack if he starts casting, and disarm if he draws a scroll or potion" but upon further inspection I don't believe you can ready multiple actions in that way.)
I've always been hesitant as a PC to start using tactics that the GM can use against me if I feel those tactics are hard to deal with.
However, it's a legitimate tactic, but I'd talk to the GM about it before trying it in combat to be sure you both agree on how it works and what the impact is.
Really, it's easy to defend against - spend another 25 gp for a second component pouch. I'm just hoping the NPCs don't have that foresight :)
Disarm is for things carried in hand. Things worn on the person are taken using the Steal maneuver.
And you can Steal with your whip:
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.
If I put my GM hat on, a sundered spell component pouch would either fall to the ground (if the strap holding it had been hit) or spill the contents all over the ground (if the pouch itself had been hit). In the first case it could be retrieved just like picking up any other dropped object, but in the second case it would require more than a single move action to gather up all the disparate bits.
Disarm is for things carried in hand. Things worn on the person are taken using the Steal maneuver.And you can Steal with your whip:
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.
Cool! It seemed like you should be able to steal with a whip but I didn't know it was part of the rules.
Or they can just hit you with a spell that doesn't need components, or this is when you find out that you're facing a sorcerer, not a wizard.
Idea ... if you are playing a sorcerer in a game where this is a common tactic, buying a spell component pouch is a GREAT investment. Provided your enemies don't always have super secret DM knowledge.
Or they can just hit you with a spell that doesn't need components, or this is when you find out that you're facing a sorcerer, not a wizard.Idea ... if you are playing a sorcerer in a game where this is a common tactic, buying a spell component pouch is a GREAT investment. Provided your enemies don't always have super secret DM knowledge.
Cool tactic, but as a GM I might force the sorc to make a Bluff check a la False Casting (with a bonus) to trick any PCs with Spellcraft into thinking he's actually using the materials components for magic rather than as a decoy.
No.
If your attack is successful, your target drops one item it is carrying of your choice (even if the item is wielded with two hands). If your attack exceeds the CMD of the target by 10 or more, the target drops the items it is carrying in both hands (maximum two items if the target has more than two hands)
A spell component pouch is not something that is carried. Disarm clearly says it works against things held in the hands. It is worn, and qualifies as something that is attached securely to the character. An adventuring spellcaster pretty much expects to have to run, fight, be turned upside down, swim, and be given an involuntary tour of a monsters digestive tract.. you can bet that thing is riveted to his belt and he's tested the seams by having the barbarian do chinups on it.
Sunder is a better option, but still DM's call. I mean you can break the pouch but that would pretty much leave sand and bat guano spread all over the place. The DM would have to decide if that rendered them unusable, required a move action to pick up, or wasn't really an inconvenience.
Steal sounds like it might work
Items fastened to a foe (such as cloaks, sheathed weapons, or pouches) are more difficult to take, and give the opponent a +5 bonus (or greater) to his CMD. Items that are closely worn (such as armor, backpacks, boots, clothing, or rings) cannot be taken with this maneuver.
Or they can just hit you with a spell that doesn't need components, or this is when you find out that you're facing a sorcerer, not a wizard.Idea ... if you are playing a sorcerer in a game where this is a common tactic, buying a spell component pouch is a GREAT investment. Provided your enemies don't always have super secret DM knowledge.
Even then, the pouch is handy to hold all the Focus components many of your spells require.
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Disarm is for things carried in hand. Things worn on the person are taken using the Steal maneuver.And you can Steal with your whip:
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.
And:
Items fastened to a foe (such as cloaks, sheathed weapons, or pouches) are more difficult to take, and give the opponent a +5 bonus (or greater) to his CMD
for a total modifier of 9+.
Disarm is for things carried in hand. Things worn on the person are taken using the Steal maneuver.And you can Steal with your whip:
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.And:
Items fastened to a foe (such as cloaks, sheathed weapons, or pouches) are more difficult to take, and give the opponent a +5 bonus (or greater) to his CMDfor a total modifier of 9+.
He does have a +9... but you're also attacking a caster's CMD :)
At mid-high levels it should be plenty doable, especially if you take Improved Steal.
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Disarm is for things carried in hand. Things worn on the person are taken using the Steal maneuver.And you can Steal with your whip:
Although this maneuver can only be performed if the target is within your reach, you can use a whip to steal an object from a target within range with a –4 penalty on the attack roll.And:
Items fastened to a foe (such as cloaks, sheathed weapons, or pouches) are more difficult to take, and give the opponent a +5 bonus (or greater) to his CMDfor a total modifier of 9+.He does have a +9... but you're also attacking a caster's CMD :)
At mid-high levels it should be plenty doable, especially if you take Improved Steal.
It is 9+, not +9.
Steal say: "+5 bonus (or greater)". If this tactic is common you can be sure that the spellcasters would buy a masterwork version of the spell component pouch, giving a further +2 vs the steal or sunder maneuvers targeted at it.To cite Brian from the Knights of the dinners table: "My belt pouch has a middle layer made of chain links, it is glued to my belt with sovereign glue, it is wizard locked and the belt too is reinforced with chain links."
He forgot to protect the buckle of the belt, so it was stolen the same, but he express well the paranoia of a wizard about his belt pouch.
:-D
Cool tactic, but as a GM I might force the sorc to make a Bluff check a la False Casting (with a bonus) to trick any PCs with Spellcraft into thinking he's actually using the materials components for magic rather than as a decoy.Or they can just hit you with a spell that doesn't need components, or this is when you find out that you're facing a sorcerer, not a wizard.Idea ... if you are playing a sorcerer in a game where this is a common tactic, buying a spell component pouch is a GREAT investment. Provided your enemies don't always have super secret DM knowledge.
For another layer of sneaky, a sorcerer could just cast using the material components. Eschew Materials says that the character can cast without using materials; nothing says that he has to.
For another layer of sneaky, a sorcerer could just cast using the material components. Eschew Materials says that the character can cast without using materials; nothing says that he has to.Cool tactic, but as a GM I might force the sorc to make a Bluff check a la False Casting (with a bonus) to trick any PCs with Spellcraft into thinking he's actually using the materials components for magic rather than as a decoy.Or they can just hit you with a spell that doesn't need components, or this is when you find out that you're facing a sorcerer, not a wizard.Idea ... if you are playing a sorcerer in a game where this is a common tactic, buying a spell component pouch is a GREAT investment. Provided your enemies don't always have super secret DM knowledge.
You make a good point, ignore all that about the bluffing!
Items fastened to a foe (such as cloaks, sheathed weapons, or pouches) are more difficult to take, and give the opponent a +5 bonus (or greater) to his CMD.
So you can steal a spell component pouch with a whip at -9, or move up next to the caster, take his laughable AAO and steal it the old-fashioned way at -5.
One more reason for a caster to stay behind a wall of mooks. I can definitely see a monk or rogue risking two rounds of whackage from the bodyguards (one going in, one coming out) to pull this off.
