Fascinate (Su): ... If its saving throw fails, the creature sits quietly and observes the performance for as long as the bard continues to maintain it. While fascinated, a target takes a –4 penalty on all skill checks made as reactions, such as Perception checks. Any potential threat to the target allows the target to make a new saving throw against the effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a weapon at the target, automatically breaks the effect.
That part, by definition, ain't helpless
It does open up something I was curious about:
Suppose someone was going to block the creature's vision with something harmless like draping a silken cloth over said creature, that would fall under a POTENTIAL threat, right? So a saving throw, failing that, could someone then attempt to attack the creature who can now no longer see the attack coming?
This would make sense, but there's a problem with this; blinding the creature will (most likely) make them unable to see the object they are fascinated by, meaning the effect will no longer persist, and they can act as normal.
As long as it isn't obvious then, right? Something like an unarmed Coup De Grace with Improved Unarmed Strike? Attack from behind, or by an invisible attacker, or with a concealed weapon?
As long as it isn't obvious then, right? Something like an unarmed Coup De Grace with Improved Unarmed Strike? Attack from behind, or by an invisible attacker, or with a concealed weapon?
Or an improvised weapon. Anything that doesn't look like an obvious threat should work.
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It would seem to reason that if someone was fascinated, they are without a doubt staring forward at the object they are fascinated by. If another enemy was coming up from behind the fascinated individual would have no idea of the approach it would seem... therefore it appears he would be helpless with regard to that enemy approaching from behind.
Susceptible to a surprise round, but definitely not helpless. They're distracted, not unconscious.
therefore it appears he would be helpless with regard to that enemy approaching from behind.
except Pathfinder has no facing rules, characters can apparently see in all directions at once for all general purposes.
therefore it appears he would be helpless with regard to that enemy approaching from behind.except Pathfinder has no facing rules, characters can apparently see in all directions at once for all general purposes.
Then why does All Around Vision grant protection from flanking? If everyone is assumed to see in all directions, why does All Around Vision even exist?
Then why does All Around Vision grant protection from flanking? If everyone is assumed to see in all directions, why does All Around Vision even exist?therefore it appears he would be helpless with regard to that enemy approaching from behind.except Pathfinder has no facing rules, characters can apparently see in all directions at once for all general purposes.
Because the lack of facing does not mean that characters have eyes all around their head - they are assumed to look around constantly and shift their position during the combat within the square they are standing on. Still being flanked means that such character has to share his attention between multiple opponents. All Around Vision allows sharing attention between multiple opponents more efficiently without granting advantage to opponents.
Because the lack of facing does not mean that characters have eyes all around their head - they are assumed to look around constantly and shift their position during the combat within the square they are standing on. Still being flanked means that such character has to share his attention between multiple opponents. All Around Vision allows sharing attention between multiple opponents more efficiently without granting advantage to opponents.Then why does All Around Vision grant protection from flanking? If everyone is assumed to see in all directions, why does All Around Vision even exist?therefore it appears he would be helpless with regard to that enemy approaching from behind.except Pathfinder has no facing rules, characters can apparently see in all directions at once for all general purposes.
That works. All the same, I think behind behind someone would still be good reason for a small circumstance bonus to stealth checks.
As long as it isn't obvious then, right? Something like an unarmed Coup De Grace with Improved Unarmed Strike? Attack from behind, or by an invisible attacker, or with a concealed weapon?Or an improvised weapon. Anything that doesn't look like an obvious threat should work.
Invisible attack maybe... all others, no.
Coup de grace is a full round action, they would no longer be helpless once you began it, they wouldn't stay helpless until the end, so you can't coup de grace.
The other problem is Fascinate power specifically limits the power rating to eliminate the ability to use it to set up helpless opponents, so this isn't a case where a GM should be rewarding creativity, it is a case where a GM should be punishing attempts to subvert the obvious intent of the spell.