This came up for me because I see a lot of builds posted with traits but no mention of hero points. How many of you use them? Do any of you use the anti hero variant option? Are hero points allowed in Society play? I know thats alot of questions to all of you about how you handle this in your games, anxiously await your answers if any.
I use hero points with house rules revolving around introducting the fate system's aspects into d20.
not familiar with the fate system :/
I'd think that for players used to having them in home games that would be a bummer.
not familiar with the fate system :/
sorry, fate is a different rpg system (like the general d20 system is to pathfinder, fate is to something like the DresdenFiles RPG).
In fate you get 'fate points' for roleplaying certain character qualities called 'aspects' that complicate your life. So basically characters have 2 traits that are somewhat negative like and when its appropriate I prompt them to use the aspect or 'invoke' it saying it probably applies to the situation. If they allow the aspect to complicate their life and roleplay out the complication, I give them a hero point (in addition to the ways you normally gain hero points).
Ok, sounds kind of like the edges/flaws thing from old shadowrun 2e-3e.
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I tried using hero points several times (with several different systems) in 3.5 and PF Beta (Eberron game) and it just didn't do what it was supposed to do. They are always sold as encouraging cinematic action and heroic stunts, but what they actually did was encourage players to save them to use on saving throws and other defensive measures.
D&D and (especially) PFRPG already have plot protection, in the form of HP, so the effect of additional defensive use of hero points was to make ostensibly challenging encounters too easy.
If I were to try again, I'd give 1d6 (increasing in either size or number with level) for a hero point, rolled before the attempted action, and they could only be used on rolls to do active, heroic things.
(FWIW, hero points in M&M worked well for us, because in M&M hero points are the plot protection.)
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I agree with Jeff my groups use them solely as defensive measures that don't really feel heroic at all. Once in a blue moon a player may use one to save another PCs life but its rare. On the other hand, I agree with Jezai too. My players bank them for the inevitable GM killing blow. Cool thing is the players get to keep their PCs they have come to love and, I get to kill them in combat. win win!
We use them in our game. I usually use them for the extra standard action. It's like having Quicken Spell at 1st level. Most of my group, however, hoards them for defensive options.
I don't use them in my current game, though I've considered introducing the Hero Points-based items so the only way to gain hero points would be as effects on items.
I'd rather use the Plot Twist cards instead of Hero Points, but I tried to introduce them into my current game and the players took them too literally and tried to use them to do stuff they could just do anyway, so I haven't figured out how to integrate them with the game yet.
I've been using them in my game for a couple years, every once in a while they cause something cool to happen, like having it come down to a single character's roll on an extra standard action from a hero point being the deciding factor on whether or not it would be a TPK. Honestly though more often than not my players make sure to keep at least two points at any given time, more hero points have been used on being left for dead than on anything else.
As a player I always take the antihero option, I personally like having more risk of death, and that extra feat is really nice in a lot of builds.
When my group uses them, the other guys get them too, so we see them a lot when the BBEG uses them to (partially) even up the action economy.
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We used them, but players often forgot the 8+ effects a Hero Point could be used for much less how many they had. I then slimmed it down.
1 Hero Point use in a level (use it or lose it). Can (1) reroll at +8 to your d20 roll or animal companion, or +4 to an ally, or make enemy reroll with no modifier, or (2) cheat death (within reason per the original rules).
At higher levels (7+), I'm not seeing the need for hero points and would recommend they be restricted for lower levels. By then, there's less chance of bad luck ruining the day with more options between the characters.
I use Hero Points in my game. However I also don't distribute exp (instead they get levels when I say so). My players seem to enjoy this system, and it allows me to actually bargain with players, when they're in a tough spot to give them hints/save their bacon.
It lets me reward the players for doing quests and the like, without just piling gold or exp on them.
Then again, my players are borderline insane with what they decide is a good idea (having only 7 points in CON, for instance) so they need that padding.
I use them in my game. My players like them as I used a "chip" system as a house-rule before the APG which was basically a re-roll, or cashed in as a skill point at the end of a session. So I use all the rules, including the "2 to live" rule, but I also kept the cash in for skill point as I did before. My players like the flexibility now.
I give them out sparingly, but usually 2 to 3 a session. I tend to give them as roleplaying rewards, or for innovative approaches to in-game problems as (IMO) heroic actions are something that should be the norm.
It seems that at least for my players, use is different for different people. One guy ALWAYS keeps a minimum of 2 to save his life. One pretty much runs through them as soon as he gets 'em. One uses them only to add +4 or +8 to rolls. So I think using them is a preference that makes the game a little more "heroic" than an average game, but can be frustrating if hoarded.
Strange Doc
I have been put them in the game, but my players have yet to use a single one. They just keep saving them in case. Even though they are at the max they can have.
... I give them out sparingly, but usually 2 to 3 a session. ...
Wow, I would have called that very generously. I've only been giving them out like 1 every 3 sessions. Complete major plot point (finally make the contracted delivery) or do something special (laid the ghosts to rest as peacefully as possible).
Our 14/15th level group uses them. They get used pretty rarely (off the top of my head I'd guess one in ten combats or so), but when they do, they usually make a difference. They've saved the day a few times.
Yes, 2-3 a session is VERY generous! I agree. However, I don't find it has been unbalancing. I currently run a Kingmaker campaign and because I give them out often, my players use them frequently, including during kingdom building turns for stability, economy and loyalty checks. They use them for +4 on skill checks to get that little bit of oomph.
I find if you give out points like a miser, your players will hoard them like diamonds, waiting for those times when it can keep them from dying. I use them more like Deadlands (classic, not the Savage Worlds version) and keep them flowing so they tend to flow back. And don't worry; even doing that, I have had 3 TPKs! So, even with the large amount of hero points, if the party is stupid and put them in a bad position, they can and will fail. I just want high heroic fantasy game that the dice sometimes ruin.
Strange Doc
