Enlarge person and CMB

[cmastah]

Here's the thing, going up in size means you take a -1 to your attack roll due to size, and whatever affects attack rolls also affect CMB, right? Doesn't CMB however get BETTER when you're larger? If you attempt a maneuver while enlarged, do you get that -1 as a BONUS instead or is it still a -1?

[osinbar49]

CMB is base attack+strength+size. The -1 to the attack roll doesn't factor in.

[j b 200]

As a large creature you have a -1 size penalty to attack rolls and AC but you also recieve a +1 size bonus to CMB and CMD.

It's just like the Halfling or Gnome, just backwards.

The NET affect for Enlarge Person is +0 to hit, +1 damage, -2 AC, +2CMB, +1 CMD, 10ft reach/space. The idea for enlarge person is to get the increased weapon sizes. For instance a great sword is at 3d6 instead of 2d6.

[Nefreet]

EDIT: brain fart. Yes CMD is only +1 because of Dex also being decreased.

[Grick]

Nefreet wrote:

j b 200 wrote:

The NET affect for Enlarge Person is +0 to hit, +1 damage, -2 AC, +2CMB, +1 CMD, 10ft reach/space.

Hate to nit-pick but the net CMD is +2 as well, not +1.

Why isn't it +0? (Assuming medium creature turned large)

Combat Maneuver Defense: "CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier"

"Any penalties to a creature's AC also apply to its CMD."

Changes to CMD from Enlarge Person: +1 (Str), -1 (Dex), +1 (Size), -1 (AC)

[Nefreet]

Because of the "special size modifier" being +1.

[Grick]

Nefreet wrote:

Because of the "special size modifier" being +1.

Which, combined with the +1 from increased strength, matches the two -1 penalties from dex and AC, resulting in a net +0.

[Nefreet]

A Hill Giant has a CMD of 24 (10 + 7 BaB + 7 Str + 1 Size - 1 Dex).

Seems like the "penalty to AC" is overridden by the "special size modifier".

[Grick]

Nefreet wrote:

Seems like the "penalty to AC" is overridden by the "special size modifier".

So the CMD "special size modifier" replaces the "Size Modifier" listed in Table: Size Modifiers?

I guess that sort of makes sense, balancing the CMD changes with Reduce Person.

Reduce is a net -1 to CMD because the size bonus to AC doesn't apply to CMD, so I guess enlarge should be a net +1 to CMD to make it equal.

[Nefreet]

Reading the spell just now, the penalty to AC is listed as a size penalty, and size penalties for AC are reversed when determining CMD.

[cmastah]

Thanks for the help guys, it's minor, but it helps me to understand the rules a little better :)