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adamantine is the only one with real benefits that cannot be replicated by a +2/+3 magic bonusLook up Silversheen, as a material, and then say this.I do not understand this?
Silversheen does not overcome hardness - DON'T try cutting thru a stone wall with a silversheen weapon.
And adamantine, no matter what the plus is, is not immune to rust effects.
Cut through walls, or still have your weapon after fighting rust monsters and casters with Rusting Grasp?
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My critical-specalist fighter uses a Silversheen Nodachi. Admittedly I haven't needed either the silver or the rust-proof features of the Silversheen yet, but there also hasn't been a real occasion to use the power of adamantine either.
I do think Cold Iron has come up, but I didn't want the rather sizable cost increase.
And don't forget the new materials from Ultimate Equipment. Elysian Bronze gives you +1 damage against two large categories of creatures (Magical Beasts and Monstrous Humanoids). And after you hit a valid target you get a +1 to that specific creature until you hit another valid target.
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adamantine is the only one with real benefits that cannot be replicated by a +2/+3 magic bonus
To clarify this. For purposes of overcoming DR, a +3 weapon is treated as cold iron/silver and a +4 weapon is treated as adamantine. And that +3 or +4 is an enhancement bonus, meaning if you want to bypass DR/silver, you'd need to have a +3 longsword, not a +1 flaming keen longsword.
EDIT: My thoughts.
Personally, I'm freaking terrified of demons and devils. They are hands down the meanest kind of monsters I've ever come across as a PC. So my frontliners always have means of breaking their DR. It just so happens that cold iron/silver are the two most common kinds of DR in PFS, so it works out well.
Here are the weapons for my current PCs.
- +1 furious amulet of mighty fists on my barbarian. When raging, her natural attacks become +3 and bypass silver/cold iron.
- +1 holy heavy crossbow on my bard that does not specialize in damage, but I do carry clips of varied ammunition (cold iron/silver/adamantine/etc)
- +1 keen wakazashi on my lore warden that does not specialize in damage
- +1 cold iron dagger and a +1 silversheen dagger on my rogue
Price wise, it is more cost effective to make your weapon out of a special material than "waste" thousands of gold on making it a +3 instead of a +1 _____ _____. The exception to this is putting furious on the weapon and raging as a barbarian, as that pushes you to a +3 bonus quite nicely.
What kind should you make it out of? Figure out what kind of enemy you're more afraid of, then be able to kill those kinds better.
You can always buy an adamantine morningstar and a few javelins with weapon blanch on them if you want to be well rounded.
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For those of you who enjoy thinking their adamantine greatsword will cut through walls, please remember page 174 of the CRB:
"Ineffective Weapons: Certain weapons just can’t effectively deal damage to certain objects. For example, a bludgeoning weapon cannot be used to damage a rope. Likewise, most melee weapons have little effect on stone walls and doors, unless they are designed for breaking up stone, such as a pick or hammer."
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unless they are made of adamantine, which will cut through anything, because that's how adamantine works. that quote is from basic weapons against walls. adamantine gives the weapon the specific ability to ignore that, as per the description of adamantine on page 154 of the CRB. ALL adamantine weapons have the ability to damage stone walls and doors because ALL adamantine weapons have the ability to do at least 1 point of damage to them.
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unless they are made of adamantine, which will cut through anything, because that's how adamantine works. that quote is from basic weapons against walls. adamantine gives the weapon the specific ability to ignore that, as per the description of adamantine on page 154 of the CRB. ALL adamantine weapons have the ability to damage stone walls and doors because ALL adamantine weapons have the ability to do at least 1 point of damage to them.
I'm in with Kyle on this one. I think that it does refer to all weapons. Adamantine doesn't say anything other than it ignores hardness of less than 20.
Are you saying you can cut a rope with an adamantine hammer?
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I think that it's a case by case thing, as Kyle points out.
A knife can cut through rope, a rolling pin can't. It doesn't matter if it's an adamantine rolling pin, it still isn't physically possible to slice through the rope with it.
You might be able to bash it over and over and over again, but by that point, why don't you have a knife...?
EDIT: Ninja'd by CRobledo!
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(on a side note - I actually have cut a rope with a hammer. 20lb. sledge hammer and the rope was over a cement block... so it might not count..., ;) )
So it was the block that cut it. ;-)
I'm all for creative solutions, but believing your adamantine greatsword is a lightsaber because it deals 1-19 more damage to non-adamantine objects is not creative.
My favorite example comes from a certain 5-star GM (not me) during the Year of the Shadow Lodge. He had a "problem player" who wanted to bypass the trap/encounter before the last room by cutting through the wall of the mausoleum with his sword. This GM did some quick calculations and said ok, it will take X rounds to do it (some really high number). The player, being belligerent, said fine. The rest of the party went on, disabled the trap and entered the final room. The player cutting through the wall then said he wanted to go around with the rest of the party. The GM in question said no, you've declared your action and you're going to stay there doing that until you've finished (I believe because of where he was he had no in-game knowledge that the rest of the party had moved on).
I find the story funny (and i may be remembering parts of it inncorrectly). Critcize the GM if you want, but I wouldn't be too harsh if you know what's good for you. ;-)
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Adamantine states that it bypasses hardness. It does not state that it makes the weapon "designed for breaking up stone."
are you saying that only hammers and picks are the only ones capable of damaging a wall? that an adamantine item has no chance because it was not specifically designed to go through a wall? my argument is that the specific case of adamantine trumps the broad rule of weapons damaging objects.
Are you saying you can cut a rope with an adamantine hammer?
i'm sorry i thought we were talking about adamantine greatswords. are you saying that an adamantine greatsword cannot damage a wall? that was my point. a big 2 handed adamantine any-weapon should do damage to a stone wall. not just hammers or picks.
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Can an adamantine greatsword damage a wall? Yep. Is it going to be a lightsaber and just slice through it? Nope.
Open question for everyone. Let's say a wall has X hitpoints. If someone deals X damage to it over several rounds with their weapon, how big is the hole? The size of the weapon or the entire 5-ft square?
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i'm sorry i thought we were talking about adamantine greatswords. are you saying that an adamantine greatsword cannot damage a wall? that was my point. a big 2 handed adamantine any-weapon should do damage to a stone wall. not just hammers or picks.
It sure can. So you swing your adamantine greatsword at a stone wall. SWIPE! Congratulations, you have made a line in the stone! (techncally, you deal your sword damage to the stone wall, ignoring hardness). What I'm saying (and I think kyle is saying as well) is that if you want to BUST DOWN a wall, you would need an adamantine hammer or pick to do it quickly. You could try to do it with a greatsword, but it will take a long, long, long time. I've seen players with adamantine weapons think they can slice through a dungeon wall just because they have an adamantine greatword, just like it if was a searing hot knife through butter.
In the same token, a gnome with 5 STR and an adamantine pick will also take a long time to bust down a stone wall.
Ed: now I was ninja'd by kyle!
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Can an adamantine greatsword damage a wall? Yep. Is it going to be a lightsaber and just slice through it? Nope.
Open question for everyone. Let's say a wall has X hitpoints. If someone deals X damage to it over several rounds with their weapon, how big is the hole? The size of the weapon or the entire 5-ft square?
The 5 foot square.
You don't chop down a tree by putting your axe in the same spot with every swing. You come in / on swing one, you come in \ on swing two and you pop out a V shaped section.
You can make a lot of progress through stone with an axe or a hammer. The problem with an axe is you dull the hell out of it going through the wall: a problem you'd solve with an adamantite one.
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Under the current rules - damage to a wall does damage to an entire 5' section. That is so you can cut the the spell wall of XXX and get thru it.
CRB states that a 3' thick wall of hewn stone has 540 hp. if you can deal that in one attack with your adamantine greatsword then more power to you. By the time you bust through your wizard dim doored to the other side.
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Under the current rules - damage to a wall does damage to an entire 5' section. That is so you can cut the the spell wall of XXX and get thru it.CRB states that a 3' thick wall of hewn stone has 540 hp. if you can deal that in one attack with your adamantine greatsword then more power to you. By the time you bust through your wizard dim doored to the other side.
Don't forget the adamantine rebar! ;-)
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a stone wall is not a 5' stone square on a map. stone walls are about a foot wide and can easily be cut through in a few rounds with an adamantine greatsword. 180 hp will destroy that wall. depending on str and ability of the person wielding it.
talking about a 5' square on the map is more in the line of tunneling, but you could eventually do it with a greatsword, but it would require 900 damage which would take longer.
but claiming that an adamantine greatsword cannot cut through a wall pretty easily is ignoring the rules of adamantine.
i am just refuting that kyle's claim that they do not, is incorrect.
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Nosig, if I or any other GM wanted to be an ass about it we could point to the ineffective weapon entry and say if it's not a pick or a hammer, you can't deal damage to it. Period.
But seriously, where do you draw the line? "Most melee weapons."
Look down the list of melee weapons and ask yourself which of these would you want if you had to cut down a wall? Where do you draw the "ineffective" line?
Rapier?
Spiked Chain?
Spear?
Sap?
Flail?
Trident?
Lance?
Whip? Scorpion whip?
Yes, not all of those can be adamantine, but I think we're pretty clear that adamantine simply means you can deal more damage per hit to objects with hardness less than 20.
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So! What about this?
I need to upgrade a weapon for my alchemist (greataxe) - so what is the best option - silver, cold iron, or wait a bit to get an adamantine axe a bit later? I really want only one special material - so, what is the best option for me? Thanks for any help
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Greatsword does 2-12, average of 7.
One swing a round, so this would be 70 HP a minute, so....
540 / 70 would be 7.50 something minutes.etc...
I would be ok with this, actually, and probably how I would run it at my table. Like I said, it would take time. Like Mr. Baird I just don't want players to think adamantine = lightsaber.
This is how it breaks down for me, if you are getting adamantine thinking of animated objects and construct DR, great. If you are getting it thinking only of "slicing through the dungeon" then there is my problem.