Anybody have any experience with a Monk/Inquisitor build? I'm considering making one, probably with only 2 levels of monk for evasion.
Melee seems like the best option and I realize the build wouldn't be that MAD. Just str and wis are needed (14 or more con being the only requirement to be in the fray).
I think the character I'm toying with now uses a temple sword and with flurry and the inq judgements (the +atk/dmg ones) it actually looks pretty solid in terms of dpr.
Anybody have any recommendations for feats or an idea of how far I should dip into each class?
I'd played around with the same thing a while back. I'm not actually sure how much the levels of monk are worth in the long run. It seems like all you are really picking up is a couple points of saves and evasion.
If you are only dipping a couple levels in then flurry isn't really meaningful, and inquisitors can already wear armor which potentially negates the need / advantage of the monk unarmored bonus.
Unlike most I would say if you want to combine ANY 3/4 BAB classes and not screw your already low attack bonus you should take a 4 level consecutive dip into one or the other, after going 4 with whichever you had first. This way it's kind of like playing double dutch jump rope and you don't miss a beat, for instance your inquisitor goes +0,+1,+2,+3 his first four levels and then you do the four levels of monk for the same again and in addition to evasion and fast movement you would also get a Ki pool. if you ended up at Inquisitor16/Monk4 you would still have access to the level 6 spell list too.
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if you ended up at Inquisitor16/Monk4 you would still have access to the level 6 spell list too.
I just want to throw out that this line of thinking has always bothered me. What you end up with at the end of a journey like this is less important than the journey. Getting 6th level spells at 20th level after spending the entire game 4 levels of spellcaster behind is a minor consolation IMO.
The major problem I see is that the inquisitor has a lot of level dependant special abilities not to mention spells. Even a two level dip means you don't get bane until 7th level and your second judgment is delayed until 10th. You won't get your second level spells until 6th, by that time most spell casters are getting 3rd level spells. All your judgments will also be weaker. The only thing you are really gaining is +3 reflex saves, and improved damage on unarmed strikes. Your Wisdom bonus to AC does not work while wearing armor so you probably want bracers of AC which are a lot more expensive then armor and take up a magic item slot.
Evasion is not worth a lot because most spells with reflex saves just deal straight damage. Resist or protection from energy can deal with most of those spells. And if you need to you have judgment of resistance.
Ah I forgot the wis bonus to ac doesn't work with armor. I though it still worked with light armor. I guess when you boil down the benefits and what you lose the multiclass doesn't seem very appealing.
I do like the idea of the zen archer inquisitor only needing wisdom for everything. Would it be less effective than a straight zen archer though?
Also, is a flurry from 2 or 4 levels of monk still usable at high levels?.
Dot.
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Even a two level dip means you don't get bane until 7th level and your second judgment is delayed until 10th. You won't get your second level spells until 6th, by that time most spell casters are getting 3rd level spells.
Like Mysterious Strangers says, the problem with suggesting a dip for Inquisitor is that the class has so much going for it you'll be hard pressed to turn away. If martial capability is what you want, then a 4 level dip in fighter (weapon master) will net you a +1 to hit and +3 damage (weapon training and weapon spec.) as well as heavy armor prof.
As for when you should dip, after 5th level. The Inquisitor is a plateau class meaning it grows immensely in power at certain levels and then levels out before another power jump. 5th level gives you bane which is a great DPR boost.
I'll plea a case to simply stick with the Inquisitor lol. Casting Divine Favor during the first round of combat puts your attack and damage on par with martial classes. It should be your only prepared 1st level spell. Judgment and Bane ensures you shine during BBEG fights. Later your only 4th level spell should be Divine Power.
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I've found that for inquisitors a 1st level fighter dip is worthwhile strictly for the heavy armor and martial weapons. Using this same logic a 1st level cavalier or paladin dip would be just as useful minus the bonus feat.
In theory, I think a 2nd level Ranger would be good too for the bonus feat w/o prereqs.
I'm not real familiar with monk multiclassing but after reading this thread I tried making a few monkquisitors and the straight monk builds were always more effective especially zen archer. Inquisitors seem to benefit most from combat help and the monk just didn't give enough bang for the buck for my tastes.
I would not worry about the heavy armor and martial weapon for an inquisitor. They have proficiency in their deities favored weapon so as long as you are careful about your deity you have a decent weapon. The problem with heavy armor is the armor check penalty. Inquisitors make excellent scouts and heavy armor is going to really hamper your ability to act as a scout.
As to the ranger that is also something not worth delaying all your class abilities for martial weapons and one free feat which you will probably qualify for anyways. If you are thinking of the two weapon style keep in mind that bane only works on one weapon. If you are looking at the archery style then you don't want to go ranger because only the ranger bonus feats ignore prerequisites. You still have to meet the prerequisites for the latter feats so while you can get rapid shot without point blank shot you can't get multishot without a 17 DEX and point blank shot.
The only problem with using Heavy Armor as an Inquisitor is giving up the Stalwart class feature. Which, I suppose, may or may not be worth it, depending on the kind of character you're playing.
This can be overcome with mithral heavy armor as you are effectively wearing medium armor because it's mithril.
Also, if you enchant the armor with comfort, then that negates 1 from the armor check penalty. Add armor expert and even get celestial plate, if allowed, then you have an armor check penalty of -1.
If i was going to dip with Inquisitor i would be look at crusader cleric for the access to guided hand and channeling scourge as well as a handy bonus feat all without breaking you domain powers leveling.
Piecemeal Armour. I can make a Mithril Armour that costs less than 1/5 that of Plate Mail/Full Plate has -1 ACP but a 40% ASF.
If i was going to dip with Inquisitor i would be look at crusader cleric for the access to guided hand and channeling scourge as well as a handy bonus feat all without breaking you domain powers leveling.
The only probem with this is that you are taking a -1 bab and still get no heavy armor unless you spend the free feat on heavy armor.
Also, a crusader cleric only gets one domain and the inquisitor must pick the same domain as the cleric.
Just not worth it overall.
Believe me, i am trying to get a good build that fits my own concept and it is not easy at all.
At least the monk, with a 3 level dip gets a lot more profeciencies.
A 4 level dip lets you spend a ki point for an extra attack with your flurry, plus you get a lot of ki if you focus on wisdom, +1 to your AC, and slow fall 20ft.
I just keep wondering if the monk/inq can have the same armor class as a fighter/inq. Maybe it's better because the monk's ac applies to touch attacks.
I would almost go Zen Archer 18/ Inquisitor 2. It's the complete inverse, but then you're playing a monk who only needs to pump wisdom, and since Zen Archer's real capstone hits at level 17, there's no reason to go all the way to level 20 with it. That said, getting his capstone at 17th level ensures you can really have fun with it levels 18, 19, and 20, whereas other classes only get 20th level and that's it.
Going that way, you'd get Wisdom to AC, Init, Attack, CMD, Will saves, spells, class abilities, and depending on inquisition cha-based skills as well. Seems like a good stratagy for uber-wisdom pumping goodness.
PS also, when you flurry, you add the BAB of other classes to your monk level to determine total BAB when flurrying. Just FYI
Some things i have learned.
Man, i truly want a myrmidarch-type of archetype for the Inquisitor.
Then i could actually play a Solomon Kane. Stupid lowsey no all martial weapons.. what a joke.
Monk 4 saves you from needing to get rapid shot and manyshot.
So essentially, you are actually getting 4 feats.
You get 2 from not needing to purchase Rapid/Many and the 2 feats for monk 1 and 2.
Flurry = full monk Bab.
That's an extra attack faster and at higher levels.
Precise strike, while nice is not important.
Snap shot feats are not needed with monk 4 mixed in.
Your unarmed strikes will be doing a d8 (longsword damage) and will be treated as a magic weapon if you have ki in your ki pool. (for overcoming DR)
Your armor class will be roughly the same high levels, just the armor is cheaper than bracers etc, in the long run of coarse.
Your saves, whether you go with monk or no monk, will be roughly the same at higher levels, if you pick dwarf and steel soul proficiency.
Dwarf Is the perfect work around to negate those pesky heavy armor penalties.
If you want medium armor, all the weapons, and no armor penalties, take 4 levels of fighter. You will get that extra attack added on. This might make the perfect combo for a big 2-hander wielding character.
The 4 levels of fighter should also be sufficient if you want that shiny mithral plate. Oooo, shiny.( Not sure if you still take the move speed penalties for that heavy armor).
I would almost go Zen Archer 18/ Inquisitor 2. It's the complete inverse, but then you're playing a monk who only needs to pump wisdom, and since Zen Archer's real capstone hits at level 17, there's no reason to go all the way to level 20 with it. That said, getting his capstone at 17th level ensures you can really have fun with it levels 18, 19, and 20, whereas other classes only get 20th level and that's it.
Going that way, you'd get Wisdom to AC, Init, Attack, CMD, Will saves, spells, class abilities, and depending on inquisition cha-based skills as well. Seems like a good stratagy for uber-wisdom pumping goodness.
PS also, when you flurry, you add the BAB of other classes to your monk level to determine total BAB when flurrying. Just FYI
I was thinking the same thing for my next zen archer. Taking the two levels of inquisitor after level 12 of zen archer. Now, using a guided bow will make my damage from wisdom, on top of what you listed. Monster lore= wisdom bonus to knowledge monster checks is a good bonus, so picking an archetype that removes that isn't good. Normal inquisitor is better I think. As for the actual inquisition/ domain either the feather domain, travel domain, or conversion inquisition from irori seems good.
+1 for crusader cleric...
i also agree that 3/4 BAB classes should be taken in 4 level blocks. go cleric of Gorum- free greatsword prof., chose to channel negative energy, and take destruction for your domain- pick up channeled smite and guided hand, and channeling scourge... you gain an extra feat, your wisdom to attack rolls and 3+wis/day add 1/2 level to damage, plus 3+cha/day add channel damage...