Confusion Bombs

[lazar]

I've read all the comments on the forum about this Alchemist Discovery, but never heard an official ruling whether this allows a save or not? I find it a pretty potent discovery and very easily exploited. Anyone Know the official ruling on this?

[EvilNecroFairies]

lazar wrote:

I've read all the comments on the forum about this Alchemist Discovery, but never heard an official ruling whether this allows a save or not? I find it a pretty potent discovery and very easily exploited. Anyone Know the official ruling on this?

I'm very curious about this as well. This needs to allow for a Will Save.

ENF

[Xaratherus]

My reading of it, it states "A creature that takes a direct hit from a confusion bomb takes damage from the bomb and is under the effect of a confusion spell for 1 round per caster level of the alchemist."

Therefore, it would allow the same Will save as the Confusion spell.

[EvilNecroFairies]

So how would you go about calculating the DC?

ENF

[jjaamm]

As you do for all class abilities- 10 + 1/2 level + stat

[Brandon Huber]

I've seen in many places that there is no save.

Some people say it makes confusion bomb overpowered, some say that due to being a single target rather than a group (the original spell), it's only good.

It says it puts the target under the effect. If there was a save, he may not be under the effect. There is a save for all of the other bombs. I would imagine with two printings, if there was a save for it, they would have put it in there.

Again, I'm just going off of what I've read because due to seeing this question asked multiple times.

[Sitri]

Interesting, I never noticed this. I had not planned to take this discovery because part of the strength of the confusion spell lies in having one confused person also roll to hit a confused ally and then they beat each other to death. Confusing only one person prevents this cycle from happening. If it only requires a touch and not a will as well, this is looking much more viable.

[jjaamm]

OR 2 bad guys fight it out. rapid shot, plus fast bombs will be a wicked combo for this. Me, will require a save, cause will still be hard to save against it.

[Sitri]

This is anecdotal, but my 11 sorcerer has will saves in the high 20s to low 30s and they still get made pretty regularly. You could make this combo by 9th at the earliest; around 9-11 mark I would expect an alchemist to have saves in the low 20s.

Add to this the fact that it took two feats/discoveries and two touch attacks and a full round action for the chemist to do it to only two people, and I am not sure leaving it out was an accident.

[Secane]

No Will save.

1) You need to actually hit a target with the bomb.

2) As per the wording, if you hit the effect is that of a confusion spell, not "as if you are just hit" by a confusion spell.

3) It is a scaled down version of the confusion spell that can only affect 1 target. Unlike the confusion spell itself, that is a burst effect, has much greater range and does not require a touch attack.
(For the spell the save is equal to the need for a touch hit for the bomb.)

4) Bomb discoveries that require a save are clearly spelled out. An example is the Tanglefoot Bomb, that clearly states it requires a save.

It is no more overpowered then some spell-meta feat combinations.