Oracles in a world of missing gods


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Grand Lodge

So I may be starting a new campaign soon, my DM has thrown us a curveball in that the gods of the setting are going to be AWOL. Kind of like what happened in Dragonlance, or at least that's what I assume since we haven't unraveled the mystery yet. The other details of the setting are being kept secret until we actually start playing, but it's like Golarion and Faerun in that Clerics can only get their spells from the gods. So basically no one will be playing a Cleric. The DM has mentioned that some Druids still have their spells, so their is still some divine type magic in the world.

I've wanted to play an Oracle for a long time, this may not be the best campaign for them but it may be a while before another campaign starts up. The normal Oracle says it gets its powers from the gods that share its ideals. There is an archetype called 'Black Blooded' that might work, but is setting specific. So is there a non-setting dependent way for an Oracle to get spells in a setting where they can't contact the gods?


Pretty sure an Oracle doesn't need a god per se to get its powers.

Hell, at least some of the curses refer to drawing power from Hell or the Abyss.

But I believe Oracles can follow ideals just like Clerics.


Oracles have no restriction of needing to worship a god like a Cleric does. They can respect or even venerate gods that share the ideals, as you said, but they don't need to. Hence the lack of alignment restrictions and deity worshipping that clerics generally need.

They aren't even restricted in casting certain spells. A lawful good cleric is perfectly capable of casting chaotic and evil spells, as far as I can tell. So, it seems to me more like they draw their powers from whatever they want, rather than being granted them through a deity. I would personally think you'd be fine playing one even if the gods are AWOL.

Grand Lodge

There is a sentence near the beginning of the class description that states:

Unlike a cleric, who draws her magic through devotion to a deity, oracles garner strength and power from many sources, namely those patron deities who support their ideals.

Which reads to me that there needs to be deities around for most or all Oracles to receive their powers.


Game Mechanics should be the real deciding factor here.

Mechanically, an Oracle does not need to be devoted to any deity in order to get its spells. Technically, a Cleric doesn't need to be devoted to any deity to get spells either (it's completely reasonable, within the core rules, to have a Cleric that gets its powers simply because if what it believes; Golarion Clerics MUST have a deity, but this isn't Golarion). For that matter, I don't think Paladins are mechanically required to have a deity, either (though they do need some kind of code).

Fluff is nice, but fluff can be reworded to fit a given setting.


Xeruk wrote:

There is a sentence near the beginning of the class description that states:

Unlike a cleric, who draws her magic through devotion to a deity, oracles garner strength and power from many sources, namely those patron deities who support their ideals.

Which reads to me that there needs to be deities around for most or all Oracles to receive their powers.

I disagree on that. If there's enough... 'ambient divine magic,' let's call it, to power a druid's spells, as the OP said, I don't see why an Oracle wouldn't be able to draw on it just as easily.

I see it as clerics pray to their deity to grant them their magic. They are reliant upon their deity to allow them to use that power. This also accounts for why Ex-Clerics lose access to their spellcasting and class features when they fall. If their God is no longer willing to grant them such power, the cleric is... well, SOL.

Oracles have no grounds for falling like a Cleric does, so it doesn't seem that their powers are contingent on whether or not any deities are actually empowering them. I'd see it more as they simply draw on divine magic from whatever is available.

By the same token, druids can, in this case I guess, draw their 'divine' energy through nature, probably? (I'm getting a little speculative here on the OP's campaign setting.) Oracles are just as easily able to draw on natural sources to fuel their powers (such as elemental mysteries, like Waves, Wind, and Flame, as well as the actual Nature mystery).

I dunno though, that's just my interpretation.


Darkwolf117 wrote:
I see it as clerics pray to their deity to grant them their magic. They are reliant upon their deity to allow them to use that power. This also accounts for why Ex-Clerics lose access to their spellcasting and class features when they fall. If their God is no longer willing to grant them such power, the cleric is... well, SOL.

See my above post.

Cleric - Domains wrote:
If a cleric is not devoted to a particular deity, she still selects two domains to represent her spiritual inclinations and abilities (subject to GM approval).

The core rules state that a Cleric does not have to worship a deity in order to get spells. Oracles, as well, are not mechanically required to worship a deity in order to get their powers. Neither are Druids, Paladins, or Rangers. The "you must have a deity" requirement is something that really only applies to the Pathfinder Society and the Golarion setting.


Oh, yes, I know the class can technically be completely divorced from the deity. But the rules in general tend to support the idea of Clerics worshipping a particular deity and being granted their power through them. As noted, to do otherwise may require GM approval of whether or not they would allow a Cleric who doesn't follow a deity.

Oracles on the other hand have nothing in their text that suggests they need to do so in the first place. So there shouldn't even be a need for GM approval in that regard, and likewise, no need for deities for them, in theory. That was why I made the comparison :P


Dot.


I'd argue something has to give the Oracle powers, but finding out what it is could be an interesting mystery, and could tie into the Big Plot of the missing gods.

Or just say "No Oracles, either" and call it a day.


Seems like the only healing you will have is from Bards & Witches. Maybe Infernal Healing. And you won't be able to recover from Ability/Energy Drain/Damage effects.

Archetypes that might fit:

Enlightened Philosopher: Your power comes from philosophy.
Planar Oracle: You draw your power from the Planes outside of the Material Plane.
Possessed Oracle: You are possessed by some being that grants you power.
Seer: You draw your power from Time itself.
Stargazer: You gain power from the Stars themselves.
Reincarnated Oracle(Samsaran): You gain your power from your past lives.
Ancient Lorekeeper: You draw power from ancient lore.

On the Sources of the Magic:

Drawing Power into themselves:

Oracles & Witches draw their power from the Power Latent in the world.

Clerics & Inquisitors draw on the power released by the multitudes of gods and powerful beings, such as Agathions and Elementals.

Druids draw their power from Nature and the Life-Force of the world.

NOTE: The above all can only hold so much power per day.

Drawing on their own latent Power:

Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards, etc draw on their Life-Force, which recharges with their mental faculties.

Hybrid of both:

Alchemists mix elements from the world and their own latent power to produce magical effects.

Grand Lodge

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Seems like the only healing you will have is from Bards & Witches. Maybe Infernal Healing. And you won't be able to recover from Ability/Energy Drain/Damage effects.

** spoiler omitted **

On the Sources of the Magic:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for this! Especially the sources of magic part, that will come in helpful.


Xeruk wrote:
Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Seems like the only healing you will have is from Bards & Witches. Maybe Infernal Healing. And you won't be able to recover from Ability/Energy Drain/Damage effects.

** spoiler omitted **

On the Sources of the Magic:
** spoiler omitted **

** spoiler omitted **...

Thanks for this! Especially the sources of magic part, that will come in helpful.

No Problem. When your hobby is building worlds you get to thinking about things like this.

Oh I forgot Alchemist!

EDIT: I edited my post to explain Alchemists.

Shadow Lodge

Its a hard thing to say. If the DM is saying that Clerics must have a deity, and the deities are gone/trapped/powerless/whatever, then I would say Clerics are powerless, and so are most Oracles, (and other divine casters, too). Oracles, while they do not recieve power from a deity daily, are invested with a sort of gift/curse at birth similar to Sorcerers drawing their power from their bloodline. The exception would be (possibly) the long lived races (elves, Aasimar, . . .) who may have been gifted/cursed before the deities vanished.

If the deities are not there to "choose" the Oracle, then they are powerless just like Clerics. On the other hand, low level Clerics (15 or less I think) don't actually recieve their powers directly from deities, but rather through the deities agents, (their saints, heralds, and demigods), so depending on what the actual issue with the deities being gone is, may or may not actually apply. In Dragonlance for instance, the deities where still there, and still partially active in the world, they just refussed to grant divine magic until the world was ready. In Eberron, and in Ravenloft, the deities may not even exist, but the followers still get divine magic (not by being a concept Cleric) through some means.

Inquisitors might also not exist, though they don't actually require a deity as well, per se. You said it's like FR, but in FR all Druids recieve their magic from deities, even indirectly if they worship "nature". I would really talk to the DM about this more. It might be that (s)he is planning to reintroduce the deities through the story, DL style, and it's just a temporary thing, or maybe they just have an issue with Clerics and want to have a reason to ban them? Might also be a set up for something Mythic, (which notes that Mythic Clerics actually bypass the deity thing completely and gain power from themselves).

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