If you believe your campign is going to require 'a bit of optimization' then I sincerely reccomend that you stay away from the Broodmaster. For my money, there are only two types of Summoners really worth playing - the Master Summoner and the standard Summoner... in the case of the former you'll want to trick your eidolon out as a scout or pocket rogue and for the former you'll want to make your eidolon a quadruped mount. There are lots of other possibilities out there, but in my experience these two are both the most fun and most effective versions of the Summoner to play.
As far as attributes, it would obviously depend on which version you wanted to play as the two would look very differently at the end of the day. Same thing with trait, feat, skill and equipment selection. Give me a better idea of what you think you'd prefer and I'll be happy to help you flesh it out - you can do it here or in mail, either way is fine.
We're actually about to start a Second Darkness campaign where we have one of each (half-elven twins) and I'm very interested to see if the combo is as effective as I expect it to be.
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I agree standard summoner and Master Summoner is good, but synthesist also has its broken moments. Broodmaster seems to be fairly weak to me. Augmented summoning doesn't effect your eidolon, so it only really works if you're constantly switching them. It's probably best to ignore them early on to get extra evolutions and Improved initiative.
We're actually about to start a Second Darkness campaign where we have one of each (half-elven twins) and I'm very interested to see if the combo is as effective as I expect it to be.
Please tell me another party member is considering a bard. Or an evangelist cleric. Really any mass buff class that will make this brutal combination more brutal.
We're actually about to start a Second Darkness campaign where we have one of each (half-elven twins) and I'm very interested to see if the combo is as effective as I expect it to be.Please tell me another party member is considering a bard. Or an evangelist cleric. Really any mass buff class that will make this brutal combination more brutal.
Heh, AXE-ually the other two characters are going to be an Elven Void Mage & Spellbinder (see here) and a Human Arcane Duelist... as I said, it should work really, really well.
Good Hope + Inspire Courage + Aura of Prescience + Haste = Winning!
Seriously though, its a good group concept role-play wise as everyone has elven ties to some degree or another...
Are you entirely set on having such a high Charisma? Remember your spellcasting only goes up to 6th level. Summoners can make great battlefield control, certainly, in which case high DC's can be useful, but if you raise your Dex, you can fall back on a good old crossbow to still contribute some shots, not to mention upping your AC.
One of the things I find to be useful with summoners is that they don't need to pump everything into their casting stat. The ability to cast a few buffs, along with a couple things to just handle battlefield control, such as walls, can go a long way, leaving you with points to bump up your other ability scores, rather than putting everything into Charisma (though, don't get me wrong, it's certainly nice to up it).
As for Broodmaster, I've not personally tried it, but remember that you will need to be splitting the stats of your Eidolons to do it. That said, specc'ing one for combat and another for skills/scouting could work out pretty well. Like I said, I really haven't seen it in practice, so YMMV.
Anyway, my first piece of advice would be, to make your summoner effective along with the eidolon(s), consider taking a second look over your stat distribution, and see if you might want a couple more points in Dex, or even a 12 in strength for a composite longbow. As a half-elf, you could easily grab weapon proficiency in it through ancestral arms (or some other weapon that fits your fancy).
Have made an NPC summoner, you biggest issue right now is stats. Cha doesn't give any extra stuff to your eidolon unless you really want to use your summon monster ability instead, which is based on cha mod + 3 I think, but you cant have eidolon (normal summoner) and that ability going at same time. Higher dex will make the summoner more versatile (higher Ac and decent with range weapons) so you can help when spells and summons are not available or exhausted.
Thanks for the advice, lets see now...
Regular Summoner is an option and on a new look at things, splitting my Eidolon in atleast two might not work...
Master Summoner doesn't really fit into what I had in mind for concept and backstory and Synthesist totally doesn't.
Nor do I like the idea of "sacrificing" my main class ability.I really do love the idea of a serpentine eidolon though, I was planning on heavily investing in it's bite attack (stuff like grab and conscript), plus the game is pretty much set in a very large dungeon so the climb speed could actually be useful and all (we're not exactly an adventuring party, more like we're denizens in the dungeon, though we are looking for our own corner of the cave).
A quadruped would be superior in combat (let alone a biped), but still.
As for the CHA, good point. I'm not too happy with bows and crossbows, but I could give bolas and other thrown weapons some consideration.
A couple of points - the Summoner's Summon Monster ability is arguably the most powerful class feature in the game. You don't want to sacrifice your main class ability, but so long as a standard summoner has his eidolon out you can't use your Summon ability at all. With a Master Summoner on the other hand you have an eidolon who can add a LOT to the party as a scout (one with darksight who can communicate telepathically with you and can have insanely high Perception and Stealth) and a wand-weilder, and you can still use Monster Summoning. In really tough fights, you dismiss him and summon hordes to overwhelm your enemies... the stories I could tell you about the feats my Master Summoner has accomplished are many, each more impressive than the last.
Why worry about a climbing speed when you can take the Fly evolution as early as 5th level?
Now, with regards to having a standard Summoner, I've found the best route is to actually get in there and mix it up yourself. My build the character has solid physical stats, augmented by the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Orcish bloodline - the same feats that give him the ability to signifcantly boost his eidolon's attack and damage with a touch. Many abilities work best when the two are in close proximity as well (like Shield Ally and Greater Shield Ally).
For the first eight levels I have them fight side-by-side with the Summoner wielding a longspear and keeping his eidolon between him and his foes. At 9th I take one level of Fighter as well as both Arcane Armor feats - among other things this gives me the use of a lance at the same time the eidolon is able to grow to large size - and from then on the two make an incredibly formidible force. The eidolon charges and pounces while the summoner uses his lance for double damage attacks. Serpents can take the mount evolution but can't pounce which is a shame... but then, with just a head and a mouth, how many attacks could they make anyway.
Don't forget about the Wild Caller, especially since you're set on a half-elf - they give you even more evolution points to play with.
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Kiinyan wrote:
Wiggz wrote:
We're actually about to start a Second Darkness campaign where we have one of each (half-elven twins) and I'm very interested to see if the combo is as effective as I expect it to be.
Please tell me another party member is considering a bard. Or an evangelist cleric. Really any mass buff class that will make this brutal combination more brutal.
Heh, AXE-ually the other two characters are going to be an Elven Void Mage & Spellbinder (see here) and a Human Arcane Duelist... as I said, it should work really, really well.Good Hope + Inspire Courage + Aura of Prescience + Haste = Winning!
Seriously though, its a good group concept role-play wise as everyone has elven ties to some degree or another...
You sir... It does seem very arcane heavy.... hope you invest in those wand's of lesser rejuvenate Eidolon and CLW/Infernal Healing
@OP The way I see how you describe the campaign, Vanilla summoner is just the best. Lots of versatility.
As for the CHA, good point. I'm not too happy with bows and crossbows, but I could give bolas and other thrown weapons some consideration.
An investment into a ranged weapon is not bad. The build lets you have a lot of free floating feats. PBS and Precise right of the bat is wicked. You can definitely drop the Cha at least 3 lower, possibly 5. a 14 Cha will give low saves, but haste and buffs are mostly better. It gives you bonus spells until mid level, but I hope you have a headband by then. Also, you said a 25 pt buy, you were only using 23 points. Honestly these suggestions are only if you want the summoner himself to do something in combat. Fully optimized eidolons are already brutal, the summoner itself is just the icing on the cake. Until haste a 4th level. Then you have 1 round of actions before you sit around casting guidance.
Have you thought about building a melee character with your Eidolon as a team-mate?
With a Half-Elf, you could pick up a melee weapon and wade into combat. You'd use buffing spells to protect yourself and boost your damage output. You could use your Eidolon either as a mount to take you into combat or you could build it as a team-mate with both of you using teamwork feats.
Either way, you'll be doing a large amount of damage each round.
I was aware of the possibility, but I've only lately come to realize that might actually be a reasonable option.
Hmm, actually, with a reach weapon I should even be able to strike from behind my Eidolon... If only Whips didn't take so many feats to effectively use, that'd be awesome (if not effective).
My mounted Summoner is incredibly effective since so many spells and powers require the two to be in close proximity. Before the Eidolon gets the Large evolution at 8th level (and becomes a viable mount) the Summoner uses a long spear and attacks with reach from beside or behind his pet with Combat Reflexes making it dangerous for melee types to get at him.
Again, if you are even thinking about going this route, seriously consider the Eldritch Heritage feats for the Orc bloodline... Touch of Rage, Strength of the Beast and Power of Giants are all gold for this option and as a half-elf you already get the pre-requisite Skill Focus feat for free. I'll be happy to show you a sample build if interested.