So, as a GM, I've never really used gemstones in my treasure hoards before. How exactly do they work? I know each one has a set GP value, but how would a character go about selling a gemstone to an NPC merchant or shopkeeper to "cash it in?" Would it depend on the shopkeeper's Appraisal roll, the character's Appraisal role, or both, basically resorting to both characters haggling over the price? Same thing if the character wanted to use a gemstone as direct currency to purchase an item? What about buying a gemstone from a merchant for use as a spell component?
Any clarification here would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance.
It depends - would what you've described be fun for your group?
I use gemstones the same way I use works of art, rare spices, and ancient tomes. They add flavor to the treasure horde, but none of us can be bothered with extensive haggling, so every so often they all just get swapped for cash in a handwaved "you sell the treasure to a merchant". If the players choose to make more extensive efforts they may get a higher return, but we rarely bother.
Shopping trips, for me and my group, are not the exciting bit of the story. YMMV.
That's how I kinda ruled it too. I gave away a gem to a player, which he appraised correctly. But when he later sold it for the sale price, he seemed a little put off by the fact that the merchant didn't try to alter the pricing at all, arguing that the merchant would probably try to buy it for less than it's worth and then sell it for more than it's worth. I thought I might have been missing something rules-wise when he brought that up, but I guess it's just a flavor thing.
That's how I kinda ruled it too. I gave away a gem to a player, which he appraised correctly. But when he later sold it for the sale price, he seemed a little put off by the fact that the merchant didn't try to alter the pricing at all, arguing that the merchant would probably try to buy it for less than it's worth and then sell it for more than it's worth. I thought I might have been missing something rules-wise when he brought that up, but I guess it's just a flavor thing.
What might be fun for that one player is probably not fun for the group. In my experience, haggling over prices makes everyone bored while one character attempts to extract an extremely small advantage.
Remember that the economic system in Pathfinder is pure abstraction (e.g. there is no logical reason longswords have a standardized price throughout the realms) there is little reason to try to implement minor things like haggling if it isn't fun for the group.
Who the heck puts ranks in Appraise?
Why would a player ask that? Because an Appraise check is hardly ever important... unless a GM makes it important, or fun.
You find a gem. What's it worth? A player could find it fun to haggle over price, but like Whale said above, this is usually one player doing this while a bored group waits.
Or on the other hand, you find a gem. What is it worth? Make an Appraise check. Then every player wants to try and you have the whole group rolling an Appraise check and using the best result.
What I like to do, as a GM, is have one player make a check. The higher the Appraise roll, the more money they're going to get by selling the item. "You're sure you can sell that gem for 200 gp." That's what the gem is worth, no haggling later on. If another player wants to make an Appraise check, they can. But, they must use the new check in place of the previous check. So, the roll could be worse, or could be better. "You're sure you can get 250 gp for that gem." or "Nope, this will only get you 100 gp." Use the new roll, and a player who has already rolled, can't roll again.
So usually, the player with the highest Appraise bonus rolls. If they flub the roll, or another player thinks they can beat that roll, another player can try to reroll at the risk of doing better or worse until the group is comfortable with a price or roll. This method, usually, has my whole group involved in discussions of appraisal and doesn't take up a whole lot of time... and it's kind of fun.
Who the heck puts ranks in Appraise?
A dragon disciple who wants to amass a pile of gold, gems and riches and make a hoard out of it?
I'd put a rank into it just for fun, in that case.
An appraise check is a DC 20 so if your players want to know the value of the treasure they have found they take ranks in it as about 1/3 of my players do. It takes little time to make the rolls. And in my group, they can spend an entire session on a shopping trip, especially when it means making new items. As for gems, yes pre-pathfinder I used to use a 10-20% discount on buying/selling of gems for reality purchases. After all merchants need to make a living too.
An appraise check is a DC 20 so if your players want to know the value of the treasure they have found they take ranks in it as about 1/3 of my players do. It takes little time to make the rolls. And in my group, they can spend an entire session on a shopping trip, especially when it means making new items. As for gems, yes pre-pathfinder I used to use a 10-20% discount on buying/selling of gems for reality purchases. After all merchants need to make a living too.
DC 20 is for a common item. Another reason appraise is annoying, the DM needs to adjudicate DCs for uncommmon items.
DC 20 is for a common item. Another reason appraise is annoying, the DM needs to adjudicate DCs for uncommmon items.
The more the reason to take ranks in it. The DM needs to adjudicate DCs for a lot of skill checks, so what? Know your tables and charts.
The more the reason to take ranks in it. The DM needs to adjudicate DCs for a lot of skill checks, so what? Know your tables and charts.
DC 20 is for a common item. Another reason appraise is annoying, the DM needs to adjudicate DCs for uncommmon items.
There are no tables for appraise, it is up to DM fiat. So I am not sure what tables you are referring to, let alone what charts.
Appraise is clunky and should have been ditched when PF first came out. Boring as hell to adjudicate that crap.
It really depends on the game and players... some players like to put ranks in it so that they can figure out, even if roughly, the value of the treasure they have found before hand... so they are not overly surprised by the amount of money they get from merchants (whether hand-waved or not) and can plan ahead and such.
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In a world with multiple coinage from multiple countries (or games with complex political/economic situations), gems may be treated as international trade coinage. after all, the gem value stays the same, does not matter if one country calls it worth 15 ducats and another calls it 20 crowns. After all, ducats may be larger gold coins then crowns.
Outside of that, I just found it easier to treat them as coinage.
of course that flies in the face of even semi-realistic economic models, after all the real world has multiple currencies across multiple countries and gems are not treated as cash.
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of course that flies in the face of even semi-realistic economic models, after all the real world has multiple currencies across multiple countries and gems are not treated as cash.
It is a simplification for ease of play.
Many players and DMs would rather not deal with exchange rates, and complicated economics.Feel free to houserule, but expect possible groaning.
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If the entire group is enjoying a more realistic economic system, feel free to introduce haggling or exchange rates. If it's just the one player who thinks a bit of haggling would be fun, let him haggle occasionally for big items but be mindful of the rest of the party's interest and if they're bored, let him know that you're handwaving the fine details of economics for the sake of focusing on the meat of adventuring.
My group often uses gems as currency. No, it's not perfectly realistic, but it's easier for a party to carry ten 100gp amethysts than 20 pounds of gold coin (or 2 pounds of platinum).
Feel free to houserule
Not treating gems as hard currency is not a house rule... I would go so far as saying treating gems as just large denomination coins is the house rule.
1e DM's guide for AD&D, PGs 26 & 27: Reputed Magical Properties of Gems. For example bloodstone is useful in weather control, diamond grants invulnerability vs undead and topaz wards off evil spells. When I feel particularly creative, nostalgic, AND have the time I create unique magic items using these properties, like a wand of cure light wounds embedded with hematite (helps with healing wounds).