Provoking AoO from moving and then casting


Rules Questions


For some reason, in the back of my head, I have this idea that the following actions would provoke an attack of opportunity, but now I'm thinking I must have been dreaming or something.

So a spellcaster is standing adjacent to an enemy of medium size. The spellcaster uses his move action to move 30 feet away and then his standard action to cast a spell.

For some reason back in 3E I thought that provoked an attack, but I figured I should read Pathfinder to see if that's right or wrong and I don't see anything about it.

Am I wrong? Can you point me to the PRD spot that addresses this?

Thanks


yes that would provoke an AoO. your leaving a threatened square.

however the casting of the spell wouldn't provoke an AoO after the move

you can instead use your move action to take a 5 foot step back as a full move, and avoid the AoO.
then casting the spell also without provoking an AoO

if you wanted to instead move the 30 ft anyways, you could make a fleeing action.
which is a 5 foot step as a move action ( no AoO ) and then run the 30 ft as a standard action. and cast the spell on your next turn


http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/combat#TOC-Take-5-Foot-Step

Dark Archive

Correction, a 5 foot step is not a move action, it's a special action which takes no time, but can only be perform during a turn in which you do not move (distance). It can, of course, be used during a turn when you make any type of move action other than actually moving.

5-Foot Step:
Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.


Lady Haleth wrote:

if you wanted to instead move the 30 ft anyways, you could make a fleeing action.

which is a 5 foot step as a move action ( no AoO ) and then run the 30 ft as a standard action. and cast the spell on your next turn

This is not correct. The "withdraw" action (not "fleeing", and does not have to be in any specific direction) is not a move action combined with a standard action; it's a full-round action which allows you to move up to double your speed without provoking attacks of opportunity in your starting square (from enemies you can see).


To answer the original question, the movement would provoke (see the core rule book page 180, about the middle of the first column), but the casting would not (because you are not casting while in a threatened area).


Let me explain in a different way. If you just moved away, you would provoke. If you ran away, you’d provoke. If you moved away, then attacked or did any of a number of other (not free) actions you would provoke. To not provoke, you need to withdraw, which is moving away in a careful manner. This precludes any other significant actions.


DrDeth wrote:
Let me explain in a different way. If you just moved away, you would provoke. If you ran away, you’d provoke. If you moved away, then attacked or did any of a number of other (not free) actions you would provoke. To not provoke, you need to withdraw, which is moving away in a careful manner. This precludes any other significant actions.

That's not true. As has been explained above, the OP could take a 5-foot step and then cast the spell without provoking.


Wycen wrote:
Can you point me to the PRD spot that addresses this?

Actions in Combat chart. Includes a column indicating whether or not each listed action provokes an attack of opportunity or not, if performed in a threatened square.


Ok, I believe I'm remembering the correct details now.

Moving provokes an AoO; though if moving adjacent to a medium size creature does not provoke, why should moving away from a medium creature provoke? I guess that's the bonus of being aggressive, the enemy isn't so reckless. This is probably what's tripping me up.

Thus the "withdraw" action specifies the first square moved out of doesn't provoke an AoO.

So you can move, take the AoO, and then cast a spell. Now, you weren't actually casting a spell when you got hit, assuming the AoO does hit, so it won't ramp up your concentration check and possibly result in a failed spell.

I specifically avoided mentioning the 5 ft. step because that's the standard tactic for spellcasters too close for comfort. But if you think you wont get knocked out by 1 hit, doing the 30/whatever ft. move and then casting is something to consider.

Unless there is something else I'm screwing up.


Wycen wrote:
Moving provokes an AoO; though if moving adjacent to a medium size creature does not provoke, why should moving away from a medium creature provoke? I guess that's the bonus of being aggressive, the enemy isn't so reckless. This is probably what's tripping me up.

Because moving out of a threatened square provokes; moving into one does not.

You shouldn't think in terms of 'adjacent squares' when it comes to AoO. Medium pike wielders will threaten 2 squares away but not their adjacent squares, for instance.

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

where possible, its better to use the move action to get away.

gotchas can include:
step up- if you 5' step, and the opponent has step up, you'll still provoke AoOs ( prereq for step up is combat reflexes, so you can bet he's got another for when you cast ).

multiple attacks - if your caster 5' steps, the opponent, if its still alive on its turn, can 5' step after you and take all of its attacks on you.

caveat: put something between you and the enemy when you know it can pounce. obstructing the line of sight by hiding can ruin the charge.


Oladon wrote:
DrDeth wrote:
Let me explain in a different way. If you just moved away, you would provoke. If you ran away, you’d provoke. If you moved away, then attacked or did any of a number of other (not free) actions you would provoke. To not provoke, you need to withdraw, which is moving away in a careful manner. This precludes any other significant actions.

That's not true. As has been explained above, the OP could take a 5-foot step and then cast the spell without provoking.

A Five foot step is not a “move” nor a “move action”.


Actually, a 5-foot step is very much a move. It's just not a move action. You said:

DrDeth wrote:
To not provoke, you need to withdraw, which is moving away in a careful manner.

That's incorrect.


Classified under "No Action"

"Miscellaneous Actions
The following actions take a variable amount of time to accomplish or otherwise work differently than other actions.

Take 5-Foot Step
You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed."

In fact under "Move" it specifically sez a 5' step is not a "Move":

Move
"The simplest move action is moving your speed. If you take this kind of move action during your turn, you can't also take a 5-foot step.

Many nonstandard modes of movement are covered under this category, including climbing (up to one-quarter of your speed) and swimming (up to one-quarter of your speed)."

Dark Archive

Maybe the developers should have called the action type something other than 'move' so avoid the confusion caused by using a move action to not move, and moving using actions other than a move action. Stand Action > Secondary Action > Swift Action comes to mind...

In any case, regardless of what you call it, the typical spellcasting tactic is to make a 5-foot step to a non threatened square, preferably one with cover or that offers concealment, before casting.


DrDeth, Off-topic:
"You can move 5 feet in any round... any other kind of movement... only take a 5-foot step if your movement isn't hampered..."

It's very much a move. It's not a move action. Those are two very, very different things, because "move" is an English word which isn't defined differently in Pathfinder, whereas "move action" is.


Deleted my post. A quick hypothetical combat with another GM convinced me I was wrong, and a non-flying caster in close quarters with a fighter is just plain dead unless the fighter fails a save-or-suck spell like Blindness or a pit.


Oladon: where is that "if your movement is not hampered" from? I cannot find it in the combat section's description of the 5ft step.

And does that mean anyone who is slowed by armor cannot take 5ft steps? I doubt that's the intention but if that's the exact wording then by RAW armor may prevent you from taking 5ft steps.


PRD>Combat>Actions in Combat>Miscellaneous Actions wrote:

Take 5-Foot Step

You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't perform any other kind of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never provokes an attack of opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round that you move any distance.

You can take a 5-foot step before, during, or after your other actions in the round.

You can only take a 5-foot-step if your movement isn't hampered by difficult terrain or darkness. Any creature with a speed of 5 feet or less can't take a 5-foot step, since moving even 5 feet requires a move action for such a slow creature.

You may not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.

My bold.


Ah, that clears it up, thanks. Oladon's omission irritated me. For a moment I thought I've been resolving those wrongly for years.

Shadow Lodge

You're all wrong. :P Spellcasting (other than defensively) always provokes. The only people who can take attacks of opportunity are those who threaten the caster when he provokes.

If he takes a 5ft step, but is still in the threatened area of a creature, whether because of reach, invisibility, or some other ability, he would still suffer an attack of opportunity.


Isil-zha wrote:
Ah, that clears it up, thanks. Oladon's omission irritated me. For a moment I thought I've been resolving those wrongly for years.

The quote didn't have anything to do with the hampered bit, hence the omissions.


Yes, but it was a bit confusing nonetheless

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Provoking AoO from moving and then casting All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.