Just a question for anybody else, but has anyone found a decent use for the Lesser Simulacrum? Given that it's limited to half your CL in hit dice and it only lasts for a day per level. Oh yes, and no Spells or SLA!
I only ask because my Alchemist HAS to take the Alchemical Simulacrum Discovery if I want to take the Doppleganger and Greater Versions. Also, does the Alchemical version last for days or is it permanent?
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The problem with most of these is the line:
It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD).
Now, this is a GM call, but for instance if you made a simulacrum of an ancient copper dragon, you end up with one at half the HD, and thus the age catergory.
There's all sort of shenanigans you can get up to with summoning/gate spells, but simulacrum isn't supposed to work that way. Otherwise, why bother with ANY of this, and just copy a Genie for the wishes.
If it works as advertised the lantern archon is a great idea. If you also have a portable hole it's good for party transport also. Get in the hole>Archon folds it up> Teleports> Archon opens hole> Get out.
For the scout you could make an Imp.
Simulacrum can't gain HD or Levels. For flavor reasons I treat this as having a complete lack of long term memory. So a simulacrum butler, for example, will be great at his job, but only in a general sense. He'll never be able to learn how you like your tea unless somehow the original creature knew this. This idea can be extrapolated to any simulacrum.
It keeps the spell useful while keeping some level of realism. If you create a simulacrum of a wild horse it will always be a wild horse. It will never recognize you or be in any way domesticated. It'll never sit still while you try to shoe it, etc. basically you get whatever comes out of the box with no customization allowed. Have fun with that Tardasque. :-)
Just a question for anybody else, but has anyone found a decent use for the Lesser Simulacrum? Given that it's limited to half your CL in hit dice and it only lasts for a day per level. Oh yes, and no Spells or SLA!
And most importantly -- you don't control it!
The best I can think of is duplicating one of your non-magical party members for some extra muscle.
You can also use simulacrum and lesser simulacrum to make a copy of yourself to send into a dangerous situation in your place. My houserule is that if you use either spell to make a copy of yourself (or a willing creature who is present through the entire casting time) then the simulacrum has the same personality and memories... althought it does know that it's a copy, and can't increase its own power.
I know that Paizo has published NPC simulcacra in several adventures that comply with this interpretation, including...
I'm a little less clear on what the simulacrum's memories/personality would be in the event that a copy is made of something that isn't willing.
Just a question for anybody else, but has anyone found a decent use for the Lesser Simulacrum? Given that it's limited to half your CL in hit dice and it only lasts for a day per level. Oh yes, and no Spells or SLA!And most importantly -- you don't control it!
The best I can think of is duplicating one of your non-magical party members for some extra muscle.
Gah! I forgot about the lack of control issue! Then it is even more pants! I'm beginning to that this would be nothing less than a Discovery tax for an Alchemist that wants two awesome abilities down the line!
Gah! I forgot about the lack of control issue! Then it is even more pants! I'm beginning to that this would be nothing less than a Discovery tax for an Alchemist that wants two awesome abilities down the line!Just a question for anybody else, but has anyone found a decent use for the Lesser Simulacrum? Given that it's limited to half your CL in hit dice and it only lasts for a day per level. Oh yes, and no Spells or SLA!And most importantly -- you don't control it!
The best I can think of is duplicating one of your non-magical party members for some extra muscle.
The spell is pretty bad, but the alchemist discovery is even worse! (It's twice as expensive and it takes 24 times as long to make one.)
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*shopper, item mover simulacrum: a lanthern archon costs only 500gp and has greater teleport self and items (50 lbs) at will. Compare it with ring gates, they cost 40,000 gp and can transfer only 50lbs of items per day and only to a fixed location (that can be moved transporting the ring gates).
This reminds me of how you can send your intelligent pet in Torchlight I & II back to town to sell or buy you stuff. A similar mechanic is used in Star Wars: The Old Republic (you can send your companion back to town to sell your loot items).
*castle builder simulacrum: not my idea, I read it on these forums. It only costs 6,000gp, an ancient copper dragon can cast Wall of Stone and transmute mud to rock at will, at a caster level of 23, so he can buy an entire castle at a very high speed, maybe a few hours or a few days, at no cost. You can put some points in engineering or buy a headband of engineering or in craft stonemansory and you can cast on yourself (if you direct the dragon) or on the dragon itself "crafter's fortune" to know how to build it. Wall of Stone permits to build complicated or horizontal stone shapes too, not only vertical walls as the name suggests. With wall of stone he can build 23 5foot squares with a thickenss of 5 inches per casting (every 6 seconds).
This is probably on par with crafting a sentient construct to play a lyre of building after casting wall of stone repeatedly.
*profane gift simulacrum: for 2,000gp you can have a succubus that gives you and all your party members a +2 to a single ability (it's a profane bonus that nobody else can give, as far as I know).
Definitely a good one.
*dominate person helper simulacrum: lamia for 2,500gp, she has wisdom drain, so you can reduce the wisdom of a creature to 1, useful for the dominate person saving throws "against its nature". With a bestow curse and a widsom of 1 you can lower a lot his saving throws.
Succubi are excellent interrogators as well. A succubi and a lamia would be especially effective.
*healbot simulacrum: if you find a creature that could be a good healbot let me know.
Ghaele Azata have cure light wounds, charm monster, greater teleport, dispel magic, hold monster, continual flame, disguise self, invisibility (self only) and detect thoughts at-will. If you make a simulacrum of them then their caster level is only 6th, but that's still pretty awesome.
*scout simulacrum: I don't know any suitable creature, maybe a fine creature? (fine creatures have +16 to stealth). Is there any fine creature that has special senses?
The aforementioned ghaele makes an excellent scout. They can turn invisible and become incorporeal, and have constantdetect evil and see invisibility. They make a good candidate.
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Also, an interesting thing about Simulacrum is that effects based on HD and level are cut in half. It does nothing for racial abilities however, which is why it is typically really nice to use on creatures. I mean, if you make a simulacrum of a 20th level elven wizard, you end up with a 10th level elven wizard, but they still have all their elf qualities. In much the same way if you make a simulacrum of a troll, you end up with a troll that has half its hit dice (so lower HP/BAB/saves/feats/skills) but still has Regeneration. If you make a simulacrum of a Rakshasa they would cast spells as a 3rd level sorcerer but their Detect Thoughts racial ability is alive and well. If you make a simulacrum of a succubus, she still has her spell-like abilities (which are not tied to level/HD), profane gift, and kiss are intact, but her HD (and thus HP/BAB/saves/feats/skills) are reduced.
I created a variant Simulacrum that takes all of this stuff into account for Wraithstrike some time ago. I think the problem people have with simulacrum is that it could be abusive since it does absolutely nil when it comes to racial qualities (which is what a good 90% of the features monsters possess are). The re-write I presented is for groups who want to use Simulacrum to its fullest while also having it a bit more well defined, more consistent, and take some of the load off the GM.
School illusion (shadow); Level sorcerer/wizard 7
Casting Time 12 hours
Components V, S, M (sculpture of the target plus powdered rubies worth 500 gp per HD of the simulacrum)
Range 0 ft.
Effect one duplicate creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw none; Spell Resistance noSimulacrum creates an illusory duplicate of any creature. The duplicate creature is partially real and formed from clay, ice, mud, sand, snow, or stone. It appears to be the same as the original, but it has only half of the real creature's levels or HD (and the appropriate hit points, BAB, saving throws, feats, skill ranks, and special abilities for a creature of that level or HD). You can't create a simulacrum of a creature whose HD or levels exceed twice your caster level. A creature familiar with the original might detect the ruse with a successful Perception or Sense Motive check (DC 10 + caster level of the simulacrum spell).
If a creature casts spells as a class (such as a dragon casting spells as a sorcerer), then the duplicate casts spells at half that level (so a duplicate of a creature with 12 HD who casts spells as an 8th level sorcerer would have 6 HD and cast as a 4th level sorcerer). If the creature has spell-like abilities, the duplicate's caster level with those abilities is halved. In addition, the duplicate cannot use any spell-like abilities that mimic spells that wouldn't be available to a spellcaster with caster level equal to the duplicate's HD x 1.5 (so a duplicate with 10 HD loses access to any spell-like ability that mimics a spell requiring a 16th or higher level caster). If the original creature possessed Spell Resistance, the duplicate's spell resistance is reduced for each HD fewer than the original (so a 10 HD duplicate of a creature with 20 HD would have spell resistance equal to the original creature -10).
The duplicate creature retains gross physical characteristics of the original creature, including natural attacks, natural armor, size, ability scores, and traits based on its type (such as construct or undead traits). If the original creature possessed any of the following special abilities or attacks, the duplicate does too: Ability Damage or Drain, Amphibious, Bleed, Blindsense, Blightsight, Breath Weapon (halve any damage dice, to a minimum of 1 die; i.e. 6d6 becomes 3d6), Burn, Change Shape, Channel Resistance, Constrict, Curse, Damage Reduction, Disease, Distraction, Energy Drain, Fast Healing (equal to original's fast healing or 1/2 the duplicate's HD, whichever is less), Fear, Flight, Frightful Presence, Gaze, Immunity, Light Blindness, Light Sensitivity, Paralysis, Plant Traits, Poison, Pounce, Powerful Charge, Pull, Push, Rake, Regeneration (a duplicate instead gains Fast Healing as noted above), Rend, Resistance, Rock Catching, Rock Throwing, Scent, Spell-like abilities, Spell Resistance, Stench, Summon, Swallow Whole, Telepathy, Trample, Tremorsense, Trip, Vulnerabilities, Web, and Whirlwind.
At all times, the simulacrum remains under your absolute command. No special telepathic link exists, so command must be exercised in some other manner (but a simulacrum will not harm you). A simulacrum has no ability to become more powerful. It cannot increase its level or abilities. If reduced to 0 hit points or otherwise destroyed, it reverts to clay, ice, mud, sand, snow, or stone and melts instantly into nothingness. A complex process requiring at least 24 hours, 10 gp per hit point, and a fully equipped magical laboratory can repair damage to a simulacrum. Spells that heal damage are only half as effective on a simulacrum. A limited wish spell may be used to heal the simulacrum of 10 hit points per caster level.
You'll notice I also expanded the materials the simulacrum could be made from to open up a few other narrative options (I personally like the idea of having an Arabian adventure where the evil Jafar creates a simulacrum of Princess Jasmine to lure Aladdin into a trap :P).
The above Simulacrum takes into account the strengths and powers of creatures in the bestiary and resolves confusion over how things like Regeneration and Simulacrums function (even with the core book a simulacrum of a tarrasque still snuffs it at 0 HP, but this one makes it a bit clearer/obvious). It also makes it more difficult to abuse certain mechanics. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your view) it doesn't allow you to get profane gift, and it prevents you from using efreeti to get wishes. :P
Everybody seems to be talking about monsters, Outsiders, etc., for use with Simulacrum.
On a more mundane level, making Simulacra of crafter-types can make your small town exceptionally-productive/lucrative. Even at half-level efficiency, if you go to the trouble of finding really skilled individuals, you STILL get amazing products. Plus they won't argue about crappy wages, long hours, tiny dwellings... do Simulacra have to eat? Sleep? I don't recall.
And depending on how much money you're willing to throw around on them, making copies of your highest-level Warrior follower to fill out your watch/militia/yeomanry also works well. [Take 6th level Warrior, copy a couple-dozen times, instant 3rd-level soldiery. If human, 3 Feats; not shabby for guardsmen...]
Of course, if you're really willing to shell out the dough, making copies of your party martials is even better.
Simulacra crafters are also quite nice. Yeah they have a fraction of the skill levels of the copied creature but for the sake of crafting that's not that big of deal.
I figure high level wizards will typically create variable time demiplane and staff it to the gills with simulacra that are largely there to craft as needed. The big boss wizard just comes every once and while to finish the end products.
In general, I've interpreted simulacrum as allowing ONLY the alchemical, 100 gp/hit point healing. No mechanism cheaper than that one can restore lost hit points to a simulacrum. So no using vampiric touch, regeneration, cure spells, etc. Nothing but the laborious, slow and expensive method.
I wouldn't do this because...
1) Vampiric touch doesn't heal you (it grants temporary HP).
2) It doesn't help much since most of your best simulacrums aren't combat machines anyway so healing them isn't really an issue (especially when you can create a new one for cheaper than you can heal your old one).
3) Simulacrum opens up many avenues for sneaky fakes, and by making it impossible to heal them through other means makes it incredibly easy to identify a simulacrum (if you try to cast cure light wounds on someone and it won't heal their cuts and bruises then you've found the mole). Which is why in my version they heal half as much from from magical sources (keep in mind that due to having half as many HD it balances out).
I have more fun with this spell as a GM than players are likely to. This spell was practically made with GMs in mind. During a fairly recent game I was running, the party encountered some fairly strong opposition in the form of a BBEG of about 7th level or so who appeared to be some sort of spellcaster in a mask and hood, along with a female assassin (6th level) who was getting in their way. A few times they thought they had killed the assassin but never were able to recover her body...
What was occurring was the party was encounting the simulacrums of the BBEG and his main assassin, both 14th and 12th level respectively. The BBEG's plans were far-reaching and who should he intrust with his plans better than himself? So he created many copies of himself and his underlings and have them travel to various locations to oversee the machinations of his plans (such as making allies, bribing officials, taking out enemies, etc). It was tons of fun on both sides of the table. ^-^
I'm totally seeing the Stepford Wives here.
There is something to be said for acquiring a succubus "companion" who is loyal to you and won't try to kill you for a mere 4,000 gp. I imagine there is many the lonely wizard who has a "special friend" simulacrum that he or she has grown particular attached to...
Ashiel,
One of the most effective gambits I've seen with Simulacrum is the creation of a fairly large number of 'mini-me's'. Mostly they're used for non-combat sorts of affairs. One very high level mystic theurgist (using a campaign-specific variant of the class that predates the prestige class), uses lots of simulacrums of herself as her administrative and recruiting 'hands'. She's even sent them through gates to alternate worlds in a lot of instances, where they carry out her basic agenda on their own 'initiative'. Their known fragility tends to keep them behind the scenes as much as is feasible.
Simulacrum can be useful in combat such as with the wizard swat team. A 13th level caster have access to simulacrum. A wizard can then make a 6th level version of his/herself for 3,000 gp (less than the cost of a +2 stat item). You can make tons of copies of you who are 6th level wizards with access to 3rd level spells (and with item creation feats but that's a different thing). You can arm these wizards with spell such as magic missile and acid arrow prepared en mass, along with spells such as invisibility.
Unlike most simulacra these are actually quite useful for steamrolling certain opponents. Besides functioning as minions, you can have them focus fire on a single target. If you have 5 of such minions (15,000 gp) who all cast caster level 6th magic missile at an opponent, that's 15d4+15 force damage each round that's effectively unavoidable for the vast majority of creatures and non-arcanists. Likewise, getting plowed with SR-ignoring acid arrows is pretty potent as well (2d4 acid damage per wizard repeated for 3 rounds (that's 10d4 every round for 3 rounds, no save or SR).
It's hard to beat them as loyal managers of your evil schemes though. :)
As a GM, I'd rule that didn't org. You need a body part for a simulacrum, and ghosts don't have bodies.
As a GM, I'd rule that didn't org. You need a body part for a simulacrum, and ghosts don't have bodies.
Actually, You don't anymore. Though I don't love the idea of a ghost simulacrum. It's got nothing for "form of Ice and snow."
One idea I had for an Overlord NPC was to go with the "Mini-Me" idea, but each one Animating a whole bunch of undead minions to get around the level restriction on controllable undead. Hence, Army!
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Maybe you are driving at a different aim than what I think you are.
But you don't really need to jump through those hoops to use simulacrum to get an awakened T-Rex.
Just make a simulacrum of an awakened T-Rex.
Or make a simulacrum of a Half-Celestial Awakened Anarchic T-Rex.
Or...
This spell is totally screwed up without the body part limition. In the past something had to actually exist to make a duplicate of it.
Now you can make a duplicate of SOMETHING THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY EXIST ANYWHERE. Or hasn't existed for a long time, or is 20 planes away.
As written I can make a Simulacrum of:
Nex
Geb
Tar-Baphon
Arazni
Old Mage Whatever-his-name-was
All the RunelordsAnd we can all have tea on the back of the Tarrasque. Twice your caster level in hit die is a lot of leeway.
Or you can make up stuff to make a duplicate of.
You might argue about the semantics of the word "duplicate." I've seen lots of people say things like a "simulacrum" of a succubus. But not a simulacrum of a PARTICULAR succubus.
Without the body part issue you get into wonk territory. There isn't even any blurb about having to have encountered it once. I can make Simulacra of Half-Fiend Storm Giants who never ever existed as far as I can tell.
Now you just need to convince your DM of how your character came upon the knowledge about these creatures.
Remember, this spell is not whatever "you the player" can think of.
As a GM, I'd rule that didn't org. You need a body part for a simulacrum, and ghosts don't have bodies.Actually, You don't anymore. Though I don't love the idea of a ghost simulacrum. It's got nothing for "form of Ice and snow."
For the same reason, the Lantern Archon idea is out too: "Their bodies, however, are merely globes of spiritual purity and pale light".
For the same reason, the Lantern Archon idea is out too: "Their bodies, however, are merely globes of spiritual purity and pale light".As a GM, I'd rule that didn't org. You need a body part for a simulacrum, and ghosts don't have bodies.Actually, You don't anymore. Though I don't love the idea of a ghost simulacrum. It's got nothing for "form of Ice and snow."
You're probably right, but the picture has metal things around the globe that could be used as appendages.
Then again, it's magic so who knows.
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Lesser Simulacra seem to be useful as expendable creatures only, and use of the spell is probably restricted to evil NPCs of the "sick and twisted" variety.
It's interesting to note that with the "False Focus" feat, 1 and 2 HD versions can be created for free.
And for a Devil seeking to tempt someone to the Dark Side, it's a perfect gift: a pair of magical manacles, that once every few days form a Lesser Simulacrum. That creature will be bound, won't be missed by anyone and will cease to exist within half a day anyway.
Did you want to train your surgery skills? Or practice with the garotte? Do you perhaps have socially unacceptable urges? Go ahead! She's not real anyway, don't let her screams or pleading convince you otherwise...
Lesser Simulacra seem to be useful as expendable creatures only, and use of the spell is probably restricted to evil NPCs of the "sick and twisted" variety.
It's interesting to note that with the "False Focus" feat, 1 and 2 HD versions can be created for free.
And for a Devil seeking to tempt someone to the Dark Side, it's a perfect gift: a pair of magical manacles, that once every few days form a Lesser Simulacrum. That creature will be bound, won't be missed by anyone and will cease to exist within half a day anyway.
Did you want to train your surgery skills? Or practice with the garotte? Do you perhaps have socially unacceptable urges? Go ahead! She's not real anyway, don't let her screams or pleading convince you otherwise...
Twisted.
And this thread shows us many reasons why the spell needs to be fixed.
Not really. It shows why "Everything not specified in RAW is automatically interpreted in the most abusive manner possible!" is as silly when construing a spell as when construing whether dead characters can take actions.
For example, the spell doesn't, anywhere, say that the duplicate has all the abilities that aren't based on HD/level. The creature only retains the "appropriate . . . special abilities for a creature of that level or HD". "[A]ppropriate" isn't a system term; there is nothing in the written rules that says greater teleport is an appropriate ability of a 1 HD version of a lantern archon. "[A]ppropriate" means, right there, 100% GM judgment, baked in at ground level.
This is not a case of "the GM can fix a bad rule with Rule 0". Rather, it is a case of the game doesn't say at all what non-level-based abilities the duplicate has. No matter how hard you strain at the RAW, the RAW can not tell you whether your efreeti simulacrum has the ability to grant wishes, because the RAW never defines "appropriate". The nanosecond someone makes a claim as to whether a simulacrum of a lantern archon can teleport or one of an efreeti can grant wishes, that person has left RAW entirely behind and made an interpretation, and shouting "RAW!" won't save them from the argument that their interpretation is bad for the game.
Dot
Just a question for anybody else, but has anyone found a decent use for the Lesser Simulacrum? Given that it's limited to half your CL in hit dice and it only lasts for a day per level. Oh yes, and no Spells or SLA!
I only ask because my Alchemist HAS to take the Alchemical Simulacrum Discovery if I want to take the Doppleganger and Greater Versions.
The Alchemical Simulacrum really only has one purpose that I can think of: a scorched earth tactic. Since it takes 24h to grow, you can get started on some ravenous beast and then get out of Dodge. Your "meat beast" will reap havoc while you're already long gone...
Also, does the Alchemical version last for days or is it permanent?
Neither. It lasts one hour per Alchemist's level and so it's pretty much the most useless Discovery.