I already posted this in the Walter Magus guide, but there seems to be not much discussion going there anymore.
So my question to all Magus expert here, especially the Dext magus style, what about taking one level of Bard (Dawnflower Dervish) at level 1? On paper it seems very nice, but I just want to make sure I am not missing anything.
That being said I also very much like the flavor of bard/magus dancing lady elf that kick ass.
This gives:
* Dervish Dance for free, thus effectively saving two feats
* Battle Dance which gives +2 Atk and +2 Dmg on yourself only
* A massive amount of class skills (All knowledge etc) and skill points
* Level 0 spell bard, including Lulaby that reduce save by 2 against sleep effect, sounds like a sexy combo with Slumber Hex for an Hexcrafter magus
* 2 level 1 bard spell, Saving Finale is sexy to reroll a failed save, and Dazzling Blade is pretty flavorful not to mention a potential free action blind, or maybe touch of gracelesness for dext debuff with a spellstrike.
I am hesitating what feat to take at level 1 though, but I might go either for Arcane Strike or Improved Initiative.
Also I am seriously hesitating between taking Kensai or Hexcrafter as an archetype (sadly they can't be both selected).
I know, they are very different and the answer should just be: What do you want to do? Melee more, or Debuff more? But I just can't choose.
So what could make me choose one or the other is feedback from people who played those archetypes before and enjoyed or didn't enjoy them for some reasons?
Thanks!
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The Magus has a tendency to nova and burn through spells pretty quickly, so the Hexcrafter can be a nice archetype for extending your usefulness throughout the adventuring day. On the flip side, since you're going the Dervish route anyways, you already know you're only going to be using the scimitar so you're not suffering any loss by going kensai and committing to a single weapon, and his somewhat improved martial capabilities also help extend his usefulness over the course of the day. That bard level means you aren't going to have a BAB until level 3, and Battle Dance is going to be somewhat limited in use since you're probably oonly going to ever have 4-8 rounds of it a day during your entire adventuring career, so consider how plausible being a melee-focused kensai really is if you're going to take that bard level.
Thanks a lot for the feedback, I completely missed the fact that Battle Dance would only last 5 rounds for me with my 12 in Charisma :(
Seems that I am going the pure Magus way then :)
What are the big advantage of crossblooded sorcerer btw? And what bloodline?
I am guessing Draconic Blue for one?
Most people go for dragon/orc giving them +2 damage per dice of a spell so your normally 5d6 shocking grasp becomes 5d6+10 ect.
I actually kind of like this idea, for non minmaxed magus characters who can't or won't dump CHA.
For having your battledance last longer isn't there a feat that lets you keep your performance up without paying a round if you cast a spell?
As a magus you'll want to cast spells during almost every round if possible.
The hexcrafter is really cool just because of the flight hex.
I played a dawnflower dervish 1/hexcrafter x who was real fun and all but was killed at levl 7.
What you gain:
+3 acrobatics
+3 perception
+3 stealth
+3 on any non-magus knowledge skill you take
4 extra skill points
+2 to hit and damage for 5 rounds
2 feats
Distraction
Fascinate
+2 reflex
+2 will
4 cantrips
1 1st level spell, potentially 2 if you get a CHA stat bump later. Vanish / Minor image likely
What you lose:
One to two spells
- 0.5 fort
- 0.5 will
- 0.3 ref
- 0.7 BAB
Magus stuff comes a level later
So the question to me, really, is whether there are any levels of magus where the magus stuff granted is better than the delta between those two lists. For a character who's going to have an 11 CHA anyway, I'm not sure there is. The greatest problem is you can't dump CHA.
If you were going to go the gnome route, for instance, you get +2 CHA anyway, and you need 11 CHA to get your racial magic traits. Seems like this multi class idea works very well with a fell magic gnome.
There is a Feat that allows bard performance to keep going a couple of rounds after you stop preforming them. The Bard: Dawnflower Dervish battledance has a statement in it that disallows certain bard performance feats not to work with it. Of which I believe that feat is one of them.For having your battledance last longer isn't there a feat that lets you keep your performance up without paying a round if you cast a spell?
That's Lingering Performance, yes, it doesn't work with it.
Looking at Beej67 list it does seem nice, not to mention that even if later, Crossblooded Sorcerer also makes me lose 1 BAB.
The good thing starting with Dawnflower is that I can dump Str completely, especially since my DM doesn't care about encumbrance management unless we start having too much stuff on us.
After Racial bonus (Elf) my stats would be (we have 20 pts build):
STR: 7 DEX: 18 CON: 10 INT: 18 WIS: 10 CHA: 12
The bard traits with 3 extra round of performance sounds sexy too.
Damn, not easy to decide, and I have the same love/hate relationship with the Kensai as Matt2vk so good but hurt at the same time.
And indeed Beej67 even though I want to optimize my char as much as possible it is also very important to me for it to have a "flavor", I always try to find a balance between the two.
I know there is a lot of way to "exploit" the magus like the hexcrafter prehensile hair that turns into a gargoyle and stack Magical Lineage with Wayang Hunter as traits.
It is certainly powerful but it just feels "wrong" to me and I would not have fun playing that.
Whereas a Dawnflower Dervish Magus sounds cool, as a graceful battle dancing elf lady that mix spells and steel.
Remember that you also have to spend a round buffing yourself in combat.
You could spend that round on a spell instead, and also attack as a magus, but not if you're performing.
Lingering Performance is the feat that extends the performance after u end it and no it doesnt work with battle dance, but i honestly dont think taking the 1 level isnt that much of a setback.. Kensai gives u weapon focus for free, which helps and by 3rd level ull have arcane accuracy and hardly notice the hit to bab in most fights..
What point buy are u making? Have u considered goin human with the dual stat thing over extra feat.. lets u not have a -2con, but theirs certainly nothin wrong with an elf..
There is a Feat that allows bard performance to keep going a couple of rounds after you stop preforming them. The Bard: Dawnflower Dervish battledance has a statement in it that disallows certain bard performance feats not to work with it. Of which I believe that feat is one of them.For having your battledance last longer isn't there a feat that lets you keep your performance up without paying a round if you cast a spell?
I wasn't talking about lingering performance but about harmonic spell.
Prerequisites: Bardic performance ability.
Benefit: Whenever you cast a 1st or higher level spell while you are maintaining a bardic performance, you can maintain the bardic performance for that round without expending one of your rounds of performance for the day. In addition, you can switch from one bardic performance to another as a swift action when you cast a spell while maintaining a bardic performance.
Remember that you also have to spend a round buffing yourself in combat.
You could spend that round on a spell instead, and also attack as a magus, but not if you're performing.
Starting battle dance is a move, so I guess my first round would be:
* Start Battle Dance
* Cast a buff like shield or haste later etc
* Go kick ass in the next round
Ideally I will get the Quickrunner shirt asap that gives a move as a swift action once a day too. Even if only once a day that's pretty cool.
WerePox47: It is a 20 points buy. Haven't thought about human with the dual stats buy, that's nice indeed.
I wasn't talking about lingering performance but about harmonic spell.Prerequisites: Bardic performance ability.
Benefit: Whenever you cast a 1st or higher level spell while you are maintaining a bardic performance, you can maintain the bardic performance for that round without expending one of your rounds of performance for the day. In addition, you can switch from one bardic performance to another as a swift action when you cast a spell while maintaining a bardic performance.
Wow Harmonic spell is pretty sexy with Magus indeed! I should cast 1st or higher level spells almost every round!
With 20 point dump str i would do:
str-7
dex-16+2 = 18
con-14-2 = 12
int-15+2 = 17 +1 at 4th
wis-10
cha-12
a 10 con is just simply horrible for a melee character, 12 will at least give u some standing power
Alternatively a human with duel talent would look like
str-7
dex-16+2 = 18
con-14
int-15+2 = 17 +4 at 4th
wis-10
cha-12
U loose spell pen and perc bonus, but gain +1 skill point and a +2con..
Personally i would do this..
Also the Azata Blood Aassimar would be fine too, esp if ur dm would allow u to give up daylight for one of the alternate +2 bonuses..
Could look like
str-7
dex-16+2 = 18
con-14
int-15+2 = 17+1 at 4th
wis-10
cha-12+2 =14 for more performance..
or could even keep the 12 cha and start with a 20 dex or a 19 int..
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Maestro of the Society (Bard, Pathfinder Society)
The skills of Golarion’s greatest musicians are at your fingertips, thanks to the vast treasure trove of musical knowledge in the vaults beneath the Grand Lodge in Absalom.
Benefit: Studying this knowledge gave you the ability to use your bardic performance an additional 3 rounds per day.
Bard gets to cast cure light, which at low levels means a lot.
if you take the bard archetype arcane duelist, you get arcane strike for free.
Arcane duelist is magus-like in a way, so good flavor mesh, at low levels you can still cast all your spells in light armor. You could take the trait magical knack allowing you to cast cure light or other bard levels at a higher caster level for at least a little while, making them more relevant for longer (1d8+3 on cure light).
Having cure light on the bard list makes cure wands always available to you without having to use UMD.
UMD is a class skill so +3 points there.
You can always broad study to do things like cast cure light wounds while spell combating, and then take wand wielder to use cure wands while spell combatting. Pretty handy for fighting undead too.
All in all I'd take the level of bard, it seems handy and arcane duelist to boot.
Being a follower of Sarenrae and using a Scimitar I might also do the Non lethal combo:
Enforcer: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/enforcer-combat)
+
Blade of Mercy: (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/religion-traits/blade-of-mercy-goddess-of-d awn)
That's a bit "borderline" exploit to me but as a Sarenrae traits it kind of add to the flavor.
eh waste of feats IMO, you dont get many, and the ones you do get you might want to look at extra arcana or extra hexes
And for 3000gp you can swift move action 3/day, you just need to change shirts :)
And for 3000gp you can swift move action 3/day, you just need to change shirts :)
Haha, that's true, even though a bit weird ;)
If you're going hexcrafter, then just about every hex is better than harmonic spell IMO. Many magus arcana (extra arcana) are also better than harmonic spell.
But with this multiclass idea, you gain access to extra hex and extra arcana a level later. The question now is what your level 1 and level 3 feats should be. One of the neat feat trees in a magus guide was combat expertise - blind fighting - moonlight stalker, but that's highly pointless with the dawnflower dervish because they have to be able to see you for the dervish dance to work. Can't take weapon focus until third level either.
I guess arcane duelist at 1, weapon focus at 3? Presuming 18 dex, dervish dance and arcane pool active, that gives you +9 to hit and +8 to damage at third. Ain't all bad for a caster.
I guess arcane duelist at 1, weapon focus at 3? Presuming 18 dex, dervish dance and arcane pool active, that gives you +9 to hit and +8 to damage at third. Ain't all bad for a caster.
I was planning on Arcane Strike at level 1 is that what you mean? Arcane Duelist is another Archetype as far as I know and not compatible with Dawnflower Dervish.
And yes definitely Weapon Focus at 3 :)
That's what I meant, sorry.
Are there any more interesting options than those two and harmonic spell?
What losses? You're in for two feats no matter what, wih a dervish build. By level 3 your ordinary build is +2 BAB, +dex to hit and damage. This build is +1 BAB plus another 1 from weapon focus, + dex to hit and damage, +1 to damage from arcane strike. So this a wash on hit and a 1 gain on damage, BEFORE you include 5 rounds a day of dervish dance. If hit and damage are your only criteria, this works noticeably better.
@James,
I'm curious as to why you recommend that Crossblooded Sorcerer at level 12. Is there some bonus at that level that makes it extra spicy? My magus is hitting 12 this weekend so this jumped out at me.
I guess arcane duelist at 1, weapon focus at 3? Presuming 18 dex, dervish dance and arcane pool active, that gives you +9 to hit and +8 to damage at third. Ain't all bad for a caster.I was planning on Arcane Strike at level 1 is that what you mean? Arcane Duelist is another Archetype as far as I know and not compatible with Dawnflower Dervish.
And yes definitely Weapon Focus at 3 :)
IF you take bard at level 1 like you are thinking, arcane duelist is a bard archetype in which you get arcane strike for free at level 1, freeing up a level 1 feat for you to choose.
arcane strike is not feat taxed the way dervish dance is so going dawnflower makes more sense.