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We've all been at a public event where we wind up sitting next to someone who smells bad. Sometimes it's just a nerd who doesn't shower enough; sometimes it's an aura that extends three feet in every direction and smells like hate. You know what I'm talking about.
Normally when placed next so such a person I do my best to casually maneuver to another location, and have thus far been successful. However, since I lack whatever trait leads to people preferring riding herd on their gag reflex for four hours instead of simply saying something, there will no doubt come a day in which I will wind up having to flat out state my concern. This will not bother me, and frankly I'm not all that concerned about its impact on the smelly person--if they are shamed into being less smelly, I'm good with it. However, my fellow nerds are not entirely unlikely to experience a culturally-imbued negative reaction to seeing something like that happen (see GSF#1), which I don't really want to have to deal with.
tl;dr: Is there a polite way to refuse to sit next to someone due to their aroma without offending everyone in earshot? Or is that simply not possible?
Side note: A lot of people will tell me that I should just walk from the table if I have a problem with another player, and in general I would agree ... but not for this specific situation, because there are certain social obligations that should be honored, etc.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 32
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Open a chest. Shout "You-reek-a!" at him.
...
Ok, on a more serious note, most people polled do say that they would prefer to know if their odor is causing problems. Perhaps an anonymous and polite note would help. Write something during a break of the game, leave it in their spot...yeah.
Reek reek sounds like meek.
I've run into my fair share of smelly players. This led to some good habits on my part, I shower before every game (then I eat so I have energy). It is just a polite thing to do, given how close you can get with other players.
I'll move to avoid the smell, I won't beat them up over it.
Aaron, Sulfur? Clearly they are demons.
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I ran a game for someone who smelled of Summer Sausage over a decade ago & from that day I still can't be around that stuff without getting sick. And wouldn't you know that he was the main player who always had to get in close to tell me what secretive stuff his character was doing. His breath could take paint off the walls. I think my cat lost 7 of his 9 lives on the last game. We finally had to kick him, but for different reasons.
What does earwax smell like?
It's easy just eat a bunch of chili and taco bell, go in there and fart as loud as you can on him and he'll get the message.
Once upon a time, though I had showered and used deodorant, I found that for some reason, it was no longer working by the time I got to work.
I had a new coworker in the room with me, and being pro-active about this sort of thing, I sheepishly warned her of the problem, and apologized.
Her reaction was to rush over to my desk and cram her nose into my armpit to "get it over with."
We are still friends. You have to be friends with somebody like that.
Incidentally, she played in my games for ten years after that.
I always suspect I smell. I'm a 6ft 3 guy who weighs 150 kg (about 24 stone, or 330lbs) and, worse, I'm disabled. My knee and spine are best described using words I'm sure the filter won't like. So, yes, I do go to the gym (it hurts. A lot) and I do eat as best I can trying to loose weight. I'm also from Northern England. Our idea of summer was nothing was actually frozen. When it gets warm I suspect I start to give of a reek.
And yes, I shower. I'm aware that underpants should be changed daily, not when they can longer bend enough to be gotten on, and socks should be worn once and not until they crawl off crying. Indeed, I change all my clothes daily unless something unusual has happened (such as one of my children pooping all over my third pair of jeans on a three day weekened away and having to use the pair from day one again with a blast of deodrant on them...because baby poop smells worse than me) so...yeah.
If it's me, or someone like me, tell me and I'll add some more deodorant. And no, I don't use lynx/axe. Just don't be a prick about it. I've had a person complain long and loud on a train about how badly it smelt, spraying some awful spray that literally caused me to choke. After repeating that every five minutes for half an hour I ended up saying, 'Maybe you should check yourself then - none else is making such a fuss.' I have no idea if I was what she was smelling - it was half five on a busy train, I suspect a lot of people's deodrants had given up - but they were the only one screaming bloody murder about it.
Remember, smelly people are people too - and not all of us can help it.
It's easy just eat a bunch of chili and taco bell, go in there and fart as loud as you can on him and he'll get the message.
That, or they will move away sparing you the effort.
I very rarely have the displeasure of ending up sitting next to someone who smells beyond your average smoker odor. I honestly don't know how to react.
You might try turning up the radio to drown out the smell.
Fortunately, my tobacco smoke allergy is fairly mild, but it has adversely conditioned me to intensely dislike the smell of it. I can usually deal by using a throat lozenge or a peppermint. I wonder if that would work for other people ? Of course, someone might complain that I now smell of cough drops or candy.
I'm aware that underpants should be changed daily, not when they can longer bend enough to be gotten on
Thank you for that vivid imagery. I was eating breakfast at the time.
... was.
;D
I'm aware that underpants should be changed daily, not when they can longer bend enough to be gotten onThank you for that vivid imagery. I was eating breakfast at the time.
... was.
;D
It's nice to know the point came across, even with my usual level of mangled grammar. But a lot of people assume you smell = you don't bother with such things. And I'm sure there are some of those people out there. But not all of them, so give them the benefit of the doubt and don't be mean.
I mean, I have enough problems as it is. I'm ginger as well.
Was once approached by a couple of guys in a bookstore looking to get in a new game. One of them smelled like rotten meat and the other had lice visibly crawling in his beard. I told them I had all the players I needed and moved off.
I take a lot of daily meds for different things, and my wife says I have a somewhat sour, chemical smell even fresh out of the shower. Fortunately my players (who I've been friends with over 2 decades) either don't notice or have the decorum to not say anything).
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Have you considered surrounding yourself with a protective wall of scented candles? Apparently Yankee Candle is now producing a line of candles for men.
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Actually you have a polite way to get the point across or an impolite way:
Polite: Spray perfume on a tissue or cloth napkin and hold it to your face to avoid any odors.
Impolite: Spray the perfume on the smelly guy.
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I agree with Aranna. When possible always be polite. Sometimes when the person is too stubborn or "pretends" not to notice the fetid odour emitting from him you have to just be blunt and go "take a shower before coming here next game or consider yourself ejected from the game". I had to deal with a player who already had naturally ocurring bad body odeur he also refused to wear deaodrant and shower on a regular basis. After sublte and not so subtle polite hints we outright told him to shape up or ship out. I'm welling to give some leeway at the table when it comes to bad body odor. Noe of us at the table expect a player to smell like a bed of roses all the time. Neither are we just going to ignore someone who is giving a smell that gives a decaying corpse a run for it's money.
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Had a player once with a body order problem. Whomever showed up last to the game had to sit next to him. Promptest starting game ever.
Happened once.
We sat down at a con next to a player who smelled really bad.
Our group's 'social interesting' guy turned around and just looked at the smelly guy and loudly proclaimed "f*** you stink".
Was so cringeworthy we didn't know what to do. Laugh, cry, cry laughing.
I'd also push the polite approach, but surely these dirty soap dodgers are aware of their smell? - "Oh I haven't showered in three days and that t-shirt with the three wolves howling at the moon I have been wearing all week is my fave, yeah I'm set to go out in public for realz".
Aranna... may I ask who told you that holding something that smells good up to your nose as a response to an odor is "polite"?
I wonder, because I could see that very action being the catalyst to create an uncomfortable situation which results in someone having their feelings hurt, which is most certainly not a definition of "polite" that I am familiar with.
You are right about one thing the smelly guy IS creating an uncomfortable situation. If holding a cloth to my face lets him see how uncomfortable he is making me. Isn't that exactly what he needs to see? Isn't that far more polite than saying "<censored> you really really stink! Please go sit in the corner."
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If holding a cloth to my face lets him see how uncomfortable he is making me. Isn't that exactly what he needs to see? Isn't that far more polite than saying "<censored> you really really stink! Please go sit in the corner."
Well anything would probably be more polite than swearing at someone and telling them that! :)
However, the whole holding a cloth to your face bit might comes off as needlessly passive-aggressive. The other thing is that it basically relies upon someone who might be oblivious noticing and being shamed into doing something about it. Shaming someone else in front of others is rarely considered polite, and introverts respond particularly poorly to such treatment.
It would probably be best for someone with a good RealLife™ diplomacy modifier to approach the person away from the table and broach the issue with them.
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What I think is being forgotten is that sometimes being subtle and polite just does not work. sometimes one has to outright say "with respect you stunk the entire game. if you want to be called back again shower before or don't come back. And sometimes when your ignored you have to be blunt to the point where it can't be ignored.
People act like they never come across a person who ignores polite and not so polite requests to shower. I try to be polite and respectful If your going to ignore me well I'm going to stop being polite and respectful and straight to the point.
You do realize holding a scented cloth has nothing to do with being passive aggressive right? I am not avoiding tasks or using veiled hostility. There is no hostile intent at all and nothing veiled except my ability to smell. It is fairly straight forward: I do not wish to smell you right now, or I am uncomfortable with your odor. That is all you could possibly infer from the action. Both of which are nicer than calling him out verbally. By calling him out verbally you are coming across as aggressive and making him the center of the group's attention over his smell. By using a cloth I am making me and my discomfort the center of attention not him. This gives him a graceful exit from the situation should he feel he needs one. I can't imagine he wouldn't realize he is smelly all on his own... he has a nose. What he doesn't obviously realize is how uncomfortable he makes others. This tactic should make him self aware without the undue stress of having everyone commenting on his stench.
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I can't imagine he wouldn't realize he is smelly all on his own... he has a nose.
People who have had a scent for some time, or even in some cases not that long, simply do not notice their own odor. It doesn't register to their nose. It's not that they're ignoring it - it's that they literally cannot smell themselves, because they're so used to the scent it doesn't exist. So this really isn't all that great of an excuse.
For everything else in your post see Aaron's reply ^
I will have to take your word for that Orthos.
However, you will not convince me that indirectly pointing out someone's stink is impolite. If the person is likely to over react to the indirect approach then he most certainly will over react to the direct one as well. And he will probably blame the one who told him. With my approach I can more quickly rebuild his goodwill by blaming myself not him. With your in the face confrontation you might lose a friend.
In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.
First off, if you're friends with someone you should be able to tap them on the shoulder and give them a heads-up. Had my deodorant failed for some reason, I'd be pretty furious with a "friend" who did the whole perfumed-cloth thing instead of taking me aside and saying, "Yo Mike, just an FYI but I think you might need to freshen-up."
However, it seems pretty clear to me that the OP was talking about a scenario in which he's dealing with complete stranger rather than a friend. If someone with the good-will and to try and avert someone embarrassing themselves gets has that thrown in their face, then I'd say that's a pretty good sign that the individual they were trying to help isn't worthy of their friendship.
I mean seriously, I used to have a friend in college who had a medical condition that caused her to generate a super-powerful body odor that was difficult to control. She was hyper-sensitive about it as it was extremely embarrassing for her, but she did try to catch it whenever possible. While I wouldn't run this scenario past her even if I could (she lost her fight with cancer last year), I'm pretty sure she'd have been mortified at the cloth trick.
I'm just sayin', not all of us are speaking hypothetically here...
However, you will not convince me that indirectly pointing out someone's stink is impolite.
There's little sense in a discussion when one side enters with the mindset of "I will not be convinced". The point of discussions IS to convince, and if one side refuses from the get-go to even consider an idea, not much of point in any conversation being had then. Better to spend our time on things that are more productive.
Have fun with that.
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Orthos is correct. It is a natural defense mechanism ... the same one that causes you to lose the ability to smell something like gasoline (or coffee if you work in a roasting facility ... found that out via first hand experience) if you are exposed to the smell for an extended period of time.
As to your solution Aranna, you are not "blaming yourself" you are, in essence, calling the person out publicly in front of the rest of the table. Additionally, if they are unaware of the issue, you are potentially adding additional insult if others at the table decide the person must be a complete jerk as he or she apparently decided to "ignore" your hint.
Also, if you are going to spray perfume at a gaming table, you best be prepared to receive some of that same criticism. Cologne/perfume can be as big an issue as personal funk ... there are some perfumes and colognes that I react to physically, as in they can have minor effects on my breathing; others could have more severe reactions.
Well it looks like Orthos is bowing out.
Laithoron, In her case you might be right. But not mine. Once someone said I smelled bad. That one comment cost me many many weeks of angst trying to figure out why I could possibly be smelling bad. It wasn't poor hygiene and no one else seemed to be bothered by me. Weeks of worry! Only to find out later that it was my new deodorant that he didn't like the smell of. If he had used a cloth and been coy about why instead of blaming me I would have been happy all that time and no harm would have been done.
OR perhaps he should have been more enlightening about why he didn't like my smell up front, but people are rarely enlightening when they tell you things.
As to your solution Aranna, you are not "blaming yourself" you are, in essence, calling the person out publicly in front of the rest of the table. Additionally, if they are unaware of the issue, you are potentially adding additional insult if others at the table decide the person must be a complete jerk as he or she apparently decided to "ignore" your hint.
Also, if you are going to spray perfume at a gaming table, you best be prepared to receive some of that same criticism. Cologne/perfume can be as big an issue as personal funk ... there are some perfumes and colognes that I react to physically, as in they can have minor effects on my breathing; others could have more severe reactions.
How am I calling the person out?! All people see is that I am upset by an odor. It would be fairly pointless to use the cloth and then confront the person anyway. The whole point is NOT to bring direct attention on the smelly person. If asked I simply say something smells bad... not that person X stinks.
You second point is valid. If you tell me that that perfume I selected doesn't smell good, then I am likely to never buy it again. Or at the very least I will drag you to the store to help me find one that smells better or is safe to use around you. But simply saying I stink is the worst thing you could do.
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In your case, that's when you approach another trusted friend and ask, "Someone just told me I stink, does something smell... 'off' about me?" That is the single most commonly given piece of wisdom you'll find in every thread about interpersonal tension on these boards btw: Talk with them.
At any rate, I'm not going to engage you on gender-stereotyping as I find such commentary unenlightened.
And Laithoron do you honestly think she wouldn't be mortified if you simply told her she smelled bad? I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't be.
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It's a question of degrees, Aranna. Yes, it's embarrassing to have it pointed out that you smell bad. However it is less-embarrassing to have it pointed out quietly and to-the-side rather than in front of a group of people.
Furthermore, most adults will recognize that you are, in fact, attempting to spare them from public humiliation. Their embarrassment is mitigated because they realize you are compassionately trying to avert shaming them in front of others.
Does that make more sense?
Furthermore, most adults will recognize that you are, in fact, attempting to spare them from public humiliation. Their embarrassment is mitigated because they realize you are compassionately trying to avert shaming them in front of others.
Does that make more sense?
This is exactly my point. Why shame them at all? My tactic was to hope they would on their own notice that they are the source of the stink and spare them any humiliation. Obviously this would be ineffective if the person in question goes around stinking all the time and has simply stopped noticing. But how realistic is it that nobody has said or done anything in all that time to call his attention to it?
Why shame them at all?
I think you might be conflating putting someone to shame/embarrassing someone with an individual being ashamed/embarrassed. At no point have I advocated shaming someone. In fact, my suggestions have all been aimed at preventing and preempting public humiliation. One specifically brings shame upon another, but someone can become embarrassed on their own.
Example 1:
In the middle of the gamestore, I cry, "Good God, you smell like a troglodyte!"
This would be me shaming someone in front of others. The end result would probably be that the individual is not only embarrassed but also humiliated.
Example 2:
In the middle of the gamestore, I tap the person beside me on the shoulder and gesture towards a rack of minis or something. Once we're out of ear-shot, I confide, "Hey man, you might want to freshen up, that shirt is getting funky."
The person will still probably be embarrassed, but since they were not shamed in front of others it is unlikely that they will be humiliated unless they react in such a way as to draw the notice of others.
Obviously this would be ineffective if the person in question goes around stinking all the time and has simply stopped noticing. But how realistic is it that nobody has said or done anything in all that time to call his attention to it?
Well it's one thing if this is a secret sign that you work out with someone you know. However a lot of people are really bad at picking up on such cues from strangers and critically evaluating whether they could be at fault for something. Case in point, try flashing your high-beams at someone who is driving at night without their headlights on. In my experience, fewer than half the drivers you do this to will actually realize that their lights are off.
Also, considering that we're assuming a stranger at a game store rather than a friend, we have no way of knowing if they are cognizant of their odor or not. If a method of informing someone they stink relies upon that person knowing and/or others having already said something to them, then why not be that person who has broached the issue with them?
After all, situations like that can be a ticking time-bomb. If all the polite and compassionate people like you and I remain silent, how long will it be before some loud-mouth walks into the store or sits at the next table and exclaims, "Oh God, did something die in here?!"
By taking more assertive action myself, I hopefully preempt the need for someone else to take aggressive action.
At any rate, I'm thinking that the OP (and any lurkers) probably have enough advice and anecdotal evidence from different people to inform their own decisions by now. I think we're on the verge of rehashing points we've each thoroughly explained, and I can't really think of anything new to add.
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Furthermore, most adults will recognize that you are, in fact, attempting to spare them from public humiliation. Their embarrassment is mitigated because they realize you are compassionately trying to avert shaming them in front of others.
Does that make more sense?
This is exactly my point. Why shame them at all? My tactic was to hope they would on their own notice that they are the source of the stink and spare them any humiliation. Obviously this would be ineffective if the person in question goes around stinking all the time and has simply stopped noticing. But how realistic is it that nobody has said or done anything in all that time to call his attention to it?
so how, exactly, does spraying a tissue with perfume and holding it to your nose with the goal being the offending person realizes that they do indeed stink NOT impart some element of shame upon them? I would argue that it would magnify the shame as if they realized it by witnessing your actions so to then did the others at the table.
Personally, it would tick me off to see such an action IRL ... it smacks more of 18th century class based elitism than of a "polite" action. But that is just my opinion, YMMV.
EDIT: Of course, I would say it is more polite than making a loud public statement about someone having fallen into a port-o-john and died or pulling out some Vick's vap-o-rub and putting a dollop under your nose ...
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Why is the default assumption that if a person stinks, it is because of poor personal hygiene?
I guess all of that compassion and understanding of how people can sometimes have problems and difficulties beyond their control just get up and leave or fly out the window as soon as the stinky person sits down next to them…
Why is the default assumption that if a person stinks, it is because of poor personal hygiene?
What else would it be in the majority of cases?
Pretty realistic if everyone just covered their noses with a cloth instead of actually communicating with him.
Or pulled the collar of their tshirts up over their noses.
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What else would it be in the majority of cases?
My point is that in this day and age, a lot of people (in general) are practically tripping over themselves in trying NOT to offend other people and their sensibilities by the excessive use of being "Politically Correct", and I find it slightly amusing that this subject however (again, in general), tends to be the exception...
I haven't often been accused of political correctness :p