Is it ever worth making a villain lower level than the PCs?

[Lawmonger]

Hi all,

Title says nearly all of it to be honest - im currently running an adventure for my group where the villain is a human rogue (charlatan) - he specialises in decieving innocent third parties into doing his dirty work for him.
He has a personal vendetta against the party rogue and is out to destroy her.

By means of the grand hoax ability and his gang of conartists he has a fair deal of influence in the city where the adventure takes place.

Ive been toying with the idea that i should make him an easy fight, at odds with his serious influence, but part of me feels thats too much of an anticlimax.

Has anybody a view on this?

[thenovalord]

the final conflict should therefore not be a fight

a battle of words or actions in a public place

wit, charm, influence, wealth are his weapons...or simply have him surrender and throw some morale issues at the party

sounds a good 'challenge' to your GMing skills

[Seranov]

Having the game end with his defeat in combat would be anticlimactic, yes. Having his machinations continue even after he is imprisoned/killed would not be.

[Odraude]

Look at doing a chase scene for the end instead of combat. It would help make the final encounter with him memorable without making it like combat. Or, make it a race against the clock to stop him from doing something that would endanger everyone in the town. For example, if he has barrels of gunpowder by a dam and is going to detonate it on a timer, stopping the detonation would be the focus of that ending encounter.

[SmiloDan]

Yeah, a social challenge is the way to take him down.

Maybe get him arrested and have him run things from behind bars, like a gangster or the Maquis de Sade.

Or if he is really weak, a single attack might take him down, which can be fun for the one taking him down.

[Weirdo]

If he's caused the PCs enough trouble, they'll be happy and excited to take him down even if it's an easy fight.

A chase scene or social challenge is a great way to make the takedown itself more interesting.

You could also set it up so that his defeat isn't necessarily the end of his influence and the PCs have to finish tying up the loose ends caused by his plotting, but I wouldn't put the PCs in a position where they can't ever stop him for good. A good way to do this is to have him leave a sealed envelope with a trusted ally that says "on my death/arrest, put plot X into motion by doing such-and-such" and then the PCs must foil that one last plot.

He could run things behind bars, but that might make the PCs feel they're being punished for not just killing the guy, which makes them less likely to want to take prisoners in the future. Your call whether that's a problem.

[johnlocke90]

Make him low level but give him dust of sneezing and choking.

[Kayerloth]

I like the many of the above ideas. Maybe mix them all together. A good social confrontation, an arrest or the like, followed by a good chase as he enacts his escape. Followed up by his continued plots from king's dungeons. A long term and recurring villain.

[SmiloDan]

And if you are worried about the PCs not killing him, have the crown give commendations for his capture. A big ceremony and celebration, and possibly another bounty hunting mission. If they kill him, don't reward them.

And if the plots and schemes the imprisoned villain pursue are fun, then that should be its (their?) own reward.

[Weirdo]

That's dependent on the schemes being fun. While this might be true to an extent, I could see some players being frustrated by being unable to "beat" this villain eventually. Recurring villains are in my opinion fun because of the increased satisfaction in finally taking them down. It's less fun (again, IMO) if there is no final takedown. The GM should give the PCs the ability to put a permanent end to such schemes if they find them more frustrating than fun (such as by finding and imprisoning a key contact who was allowing the rogue to maintain his influence).

[st00ji]

i recently had a minor plot arc end with a villain similar to what you are describing. though he was not lower level than the PCs, i had decided he wielded his power through deception and so forth. physically he was no match for the PCs, but has was a master manipulator and was rich enough to hire plenty of help.

though he had been messing with the PCs for 5 or 6 levels by remote control so to speak, the actual 'encounter' with him took about a session and a half, and included a chase which lasted a couple of days of game time. the PCs had to work their way through his tricks and traps, not to mention his many minions.

they did eventually catch up with him, and he managed to charm one of the PCs (he was a bard). more hilarity ensues. he almost got away too, only a timely hold person and a poorly rolled save ruined things entirely for him.

they did end up killing him, though it never really came down to a traditional fight - but everyone still had fun etc. plus i think its good for the PCs to feel like their characters are that much stronger than alot of people - a kind of reward for all their levels and feats etc.

[Greg Wasson]

Everyone in town just ~knows~ the charlatan is a noble and upstanding citizen. So, the PC's have to change public opinion...or at least that of the authorities. The charlatan is also in a position that just killing him would be a "bad" thing.

Greg

[RedDogMT]

You could take a page from the first Iron Man movie. I assume EVERYONE has seen the movie by now. The scene is when Iron Man has returned to the the middle east to destroy the missile that were stolen. After destroying the tank, he comes upon a group of civilians who are being held hostage by some gunmen/thugs. The lead thug skulks away and hides when Iron Man appears. After taking down the thugs, Iron Man pulls the leader through a wall and he lands in front of all the civilians that his guys were just about to kill. Iron Man flies off, but as he leaves he says "He's all yours".

You might consider having the PCs encounter a group who is rivaling the charlaten. They can provide some intel for the bad guy under the condition that they bring him to the rival leader. From there, you can either have the rival leader arrive just as the PCs apprehend the charletan or you could have the PCs bring him back. Either way, this rival group could also be used as contacts or lead ins to other adventures.

[Degoon Squad]

Well Lex Luthor not any where near as powerful as Superman.
But he can be a challenge as long as he does not get into a fist fight with Superman.