So if i put a narrow bridge over a pit which has a curve (prompting a reflexe save if hit not to fall in the pit) and an enemy uses color spray on my players - do they have a reflex throw not to fall if they are stunned? If they are unconcious then they fail save and fall obviusly. If they are stunned they should have full reflex save.... but i just can't see how a creature staying on this bridge stunned enough to drop a weapon is able to be as good at balancing on it as then it was at normal condition.
Or yet another situation - color spray trap over a covered pit trap. So a color spray stuns a player and then pit opens up - will he be able to use a reflex to jump away or is he disallowed reflex save (while RAW is he can jump out with reflex save.....).
I think stun should disallow reflex saves (while still having full will and fortitude), or at least have a -5 - -10 penalty on them.
Thanks in advance for your opinions.
RAW, Stun has exactly zero effect on your Saves. While you lose your Dex Bonus to AC (if any), you don't get your effective Dex lowered at all.
Frankly, I'd call for an Acrobatics check rather than a Reflex Save... did I mention you cannot take actions when stunned?
Reflex saves aren't just getting out of the way, but also has some factor of getting lucky or something other than you taking the brunt of the impact. It's a bit weird.
Well i think it is weird too. As i said with an opening pit problem you are standing in the middle of the pit hatch then you are stunned and it is opened:
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......XCX.T....
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So here XXX is an opening hatch 15 ft long wich C - a character in the center of it. T is a trap with 15 ft cone radius so it hits a player. Then this hatch opens he can use reflex save to jump back (it is just a trap with reflex save after all) and get out from hatch before it fully opens. But you are stunned and can't take any actions INCLUDING jumping right? But you can take a reflex save to jump... Well that seems strange to me:)
This came up in our group one time as well.
A bit fruitless to say, but it's in the hands of the GM.
I left the reflex saves alone, mainly to protect the players. However if removed, then it could add a nice one-two punch of say a monk with stunning fist, evasion, and a sorcerer friend who is all-too willing to toss those fireballs.
Well logically detrimental conditions should really change saves a lot. For example stunned should make a big penalty on reflex saves. Also i think it should give little penalty on will (from my visualisation of stun like it is so hard to concentrate that you acn't even act - so it should make it harder to resist mind control for example). Some other conditions too - like serious poisoning or illness should lower fort save after some time - your body is already at the limit.
But it will complicate game too much i think:(