why he calls antipaladin anyway?
why dont say Dark paladin or alike?
antipaladin can be a rogue because hes does the oposite than a paladin?
a silly question i guess, but, why?
why theres not an anti-any class then?
anti rogue, anti fighter, anti everything?
i like the dark knight for an oposite of a knight, obviously a beter verdsion of a cavalier than in ´pfrpg made by my self
sorry, im only wondering why,... txs 4 reading
If you're typing things like "antipaladin can be a rogue because hes does the oposite than a paladin", you're probably not in a position to tell other people whether their language sounds good. Especially when it's over such a minor prefix choice as "anti-" versus "dark".
There's no "anti-" version of the other classes because other classes don't have the same strict alignment and build-in code as a paladin. There's no such thing as an "anti-fighter" because you can't have someone directly oppose the fighter's code and alignment because the fighter class comes with neither. Would you have an "anti-druid" who wants to destroy nature and must have one of the four extreme corner alignments?
Asking why there is an antipaladin but not anti-versions of other classes is like asking, "If Good is the opposite of Evil, what is the opposite of Neutral? You can't answer that, checkmate, therefore good and evil aren't really opposites and evil doesn't exist."
srry dat is jsut wat i thnik,,,,,,,,... kthx
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It's called an Antipaladin because Deathknight is already taken and copyrighted.
If you want to call your Antipaladin a Dark Knight, you have every freedom to do so.
Don't really care for the name either, but it's better than blackguard.
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I really hate the name. Makes me think that he's some sort of Bizarro Superman type dude. And Bizarro Superman is a lame name.
why he calls antipaladin anyway?
why dont say Dark paladin or alike?
antipaladin can be a rogue because hes does the oposite than a paladin?
a silly question i guess, but, why?why theres not an anti-any class then?
anti rogue, anti fighter, anti everything?i like the dark knight for an oposite of a knight, obviously a beter verdsion of a cavalier than in ´pfrpg made by my self
sorry, im only wondering why,... txs 4 reading
It is called Anti Paladin because when the class was first put on paper and published in Dragon Magazine #39 over 30 years ago that is what it was called. Since it has 30+ years of gaming history behind it I assume Paizo saw no reason to alter it.
Also it fits in perfectly with the pseudo judeo christian medieval origins of D&D and the Original Paladin class itself. In the real world there were entities named the Anti Pope and the Anti Christ throughout the middle ages to represent evil opposites of the churchs paragons so Anti Paladin is completely fine.
It only sounds odd NOW since the concept of Anti is not used as it once was in language. If your ignorant of the classes ancient roots and it's origin concept that is why you may find the name odd.
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I prefer the name Blackguard, since Anti-Paladin just sounds silly.
He's called an Anti-Paladin because he is anitithetical to everything a Paladin is and stands for.
Where a Paladin goes right, an Antipaladin goes left, where a Paladin zigs an Antipaladin zags.
It ain't a difficult concept here.
Would you have an "anti-druid" who wants to destroy nature and must have one of the four extreme corner alignments?
Yes, yes I would, thanks for asking.
And the Anticleric (aka the Uber-Atheist), dedicated to eradicating all worship and knowledge of the gods in Golarion.
And an Anti-Wizard who is the paragon of ignorance. He gets more powerful the lower his Int score goes, and once it reaches zero he can keep functioning and gains immunity to all spells (negatives give spell reflection) whilst simultaneously losing the knowledge of how to chew.
There's a lot of potential here.
Anti-Summoner is the best class. There is one Eidolon somewhere in the world that he can banish when he encounters it.
Anti-Alchemist is pretty sweet too. Sitting on a huge pile of gold and philosopher's stones when you really just want lead and base metals? Don't worry, she can fix that.
How about an Anti-Living creature...
...oh, wait. Also, an Anti-Tarrasque with 1 HP.
Despite the ancient roots of "anti-", I still think it sounds pretty lame. Like something a ten-year-old would think up as a name for a villain. It's like calling it the Nega-paladin or the Bizarro Paladin. Not dissing on Paizo for it, but I feel like the name was one piece of nostalgia that could have been chucked away.
That said, I like the class. It's much more than just the mirror reflection of a paladin and they have flavorful powers.
Anti-Summoner is the best class. There is one Eidolon somewhere in the world that he can banish when he encounters it.
Anti-Alchemist is pretty sweet too. Sitting on a huge pile of gold and philosopher's stones when you really just want lead and base metals? Don't worry, she can fix that.
You're not going anti enough.
A Summoner summons one Eidolon, therefore an ANTI-Summoner wants to banish ALL Eidolons.
An Alchemist controls all sorts of chemical reactions to work his way toward a goal (be it a philosopher's stone or immortality or whatever), while an ANTI-Alchemist is dedicated to stopping all chemical processes forever.
I also don't like the nomenclature there, for basically the same reasons as Odraude mentioned.
But what are you going to call it, its an alternate base class and going with paizo's base classs naming conventions it should be one word. The thing is there was never in history a type of knight who would call themselves a paragon of evil (everybody thinks theyre doing the right thing, and even if they don't they certainly will at least claim to).
So what the antipaladin should be called, is paladin. I guess
I prefer the name Blackguard, since Anti-Paladin just sounds silly.
Maybe in a vacuum, but I'll never get past the image of the ridiculous goofy-looking character art they had for the blackguard in the 3.0 DMG. Pretty much ruined it for me.
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I like both blackguard and anitpaladin. I was fine with blackguard before in 3.x, and I'm fine with antipaladin now in Pathfinder. I like that they're different because one is a prestige class and the other is an alternate class. Who knows, maybe one day there will be a Pathfinder PRC called the blackguard that is only available to the antipaladin.
I liked antipaladin before when I just thought it was a throwback to something in First Edition. Once the Antichrist and the Anti-Pope were pointed out, I like it even more. Sure, it sounds silly to say "antipaladin" but then again, "the Antichrist." That's a thing that is -still- talked about in certain circles today.
Maybe antipaladin would be scarier with "the" in front of it.
"There's some kind of message coming in by courier!"
"Where's it from?"
"Upriver."
"What does it say?"
"The Antipaladin is coming this way! There's going to be trouble!"
"There's going to be trouble?"
"Right here in River City."
"There's some kind of message coming in by courier!"
"Where's it from?"
"Upriver."
"What does it say?"
"The Antipaladin is coming this way! There's going to be trouble!"
"There's going to be trouble?"
"Right here in River City."
*snorts soda*
*slow clap*
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AM BARBARIAN!
And an Anti-Wizard who is the paragon of ignorance. He gets more powerful the lower his Int score goes, and once it reaches zero he can keep functioning and gains immunity to all spells (negatives give spell reflection) whilst simultaneously losing the knowledge of how to chew.
Doesn't AM BARBARIAN have a Ph.D. in engineering so that he can calculate his trajectory when he moves eight hundred feet in one round?
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Man AM BARBARIAN is going to be so mad when he realizes he got named something different in that other thread.
AM BERSERKER just sounds like you're singing that song from Clerks.
I also don't like the nomenclature there, for basically the same reasons as Odraude mentioned.
But what are you going to call it, its an alternate base class and going with paizo's base classs naming conventions it should be one word. The thing is there was never in history a type of knight who would call themselves a paragon of evil (everybody thinks theyre doing the right thing, and even if they don't they certainly will at least claim to).
So what the antipaladin should be called, is paladin. I guess
thats right!!
a cleric who claims the evil deities, dont call himself an anticleric or evil cleric or alike, they just call themselves Clericsso, the paladin who pray to an evil creature, just name it Paladin and thats all
realy, anti-X is just a name concept to call it, but, is lame... silly, and a lot of things
blackguard is a good name
black knight too
dark paladin is good one
but still being a paladin as the same for a dark/anti/black-cleric does!!
The Antipaladin is the antithesis of everything the paladin is.
a cleric who claims the evil deities, dont call himself an anticleric or evil cleric or alike, they just call themselves Clerics
Yes but clerics aren't necessarily good, they're just followers of a certain faith or ideal and gain powers from it.
Paladins are one thing: Lawful Good
Antipaladins are one thing: Chaotic Evil
Keep in mind this is a world of tangible good and evil. They just aren't concepts in the minds of man.
on a side note: I think black guard was used in DnD as another variant. I think it was Lawful Evil.
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The word Paladin comes from the name the Knights of the court of Charlemagne, and is supposed to imply a knight famed for Christian valor. You'd have to find an opposite of that. What is the opposite of a knight? What do you call someone who defies chivalry to such a degree that they go beyond knight-errant. Perhaps, I don't know, Attainted? Iconoclast? I dunno. Antipaladin isn't the best name, and blackguard might be better, and i tend to call it a blackguard, and i am aware it isn't called that anymore because of legal issues.
The Antipaladin is the antithesis of everything the paladin is.
a cleric who claims the evil deities, dont call himself an anticleric or evil cleric or alike, they just call themselves ClericsYes but clerics aren't necessarily good, they're just followers of a certain faith or ideal and gain powers from it.
Paladins are one thing: Lawful Good
Antipaladins are one thing: Chaotic EvilKeep in mind this is a world of tangible good and evil. They just aren't concepts in the minds of man.
on a side note: I think black guard was used in DnD as another variant. I think it was Lawful Evil.
chaotic evil is the posite side of lawful good btw
The word Paladin comes from the name the Knights of the court of Charlemagne, and is supposed to imply a knight famed for Christian valor. You'd have to find an opposite of that. What is the opposite of a knight? What do you call someone who defies chivalry to such a degree that they go beyond knight-errant. Perhaps, I don't know, Attainted? Iconoclast? I dunno. Antipaladin isn't the best name, and blackguard might be better, and i tend to call it a blackguard, and i am aware it isn't called that anymore because of legal issues.
i dont think the police enter at your place when youre gaming for raights with that name...
F$#" WotC with theyre legal issues, we want to get fun here, and we cant do it at playing 4th or D&D next
chaotic evil is the posite side of lawful good btwThe Antipaladin is the antithesis of everything the paladin is.
a cleric who claims the evil deities, dont call himself an anticleric or evil cleric or alike, they just call themselves ClericsYes but clerics aren't necessarily good, they're just followers of a certain faith or ideal and gain powers from it.
Paladins are one thing: Lawful Good
Antipaladins are one thing: Chaotic EvilKeep in mind this is a world of tangible good and evil. They just aren't concepts in the minds of man.
on a side note: I think black guard was used in DnD as another variant. I think it was Lawful Evil.
kind of my first point
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why he calls antipaladin anyway?
why dont say Dark paladin or alike?
The anti-paladin is the exact opposite of a paladin in every sense.
I believe that if an anti-paladin were to touch a paladin their wave functions would cancel out and both would disappear in a tremendous release of divine energy. However, this is a theoretical calculation that assumes certain paladinic quantities remain small enough to prevent nonlinear interactions. If in practice these terms are non-trivial than the resulting long term behavior would be anyone's guess.
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It's called an Antipaladin because Deathknight is already taken and copyrighted.
If you want to call your Antipaladin a Dark Knight, you have every freedom to do so.
However, Dark Knights aren't always cut-and-dry evil, either.
I'd probably vote Blackguard as a possible alternate name for an Anti-Paladin, but for simplicity's sake, Anti-Paladin works just fine.
why he calls antipaladin anyway?
why dont say Dark paladin or alike?The anti-paladin is the exact opposite of a paladin in every sense.
I believe that if an anti-paladin were to touch a paladin their wave functions would cancel out and both would disappear in a tremendous release of divine energy. However, this is a theoretical calculation that assumes certain paladinic quantities remain small enough to prevent nonlinear interactions. If in practice these terms are non-trivial than the resulting long term behavior would be anyone's guess.
/clap
In my games I tell my players not to refer to themselves in character as being a certain class anyway, except in some cases (where Wizard is most a scholarly and professional title), for instance a Summoners, Sorcerers, Wizards, and witches may all be called mages, sorcerers, mystics, etc. depending on the region because they're all arcane caster, and technically the only difference is the particular style of magic. A Rogue character that goes stealing things is not going to be called a rogue, he will be called by all a thief. Classes don't exist in the real world.
I'm not sure what I would call an antipaladin because it hasn't come up, but if one does he'll probably have his own, unique title, like "Bomar, Lord of Wickedness" or some such thing.
chaotic evil is the posite side of lawful good btwThe Antipaladin is the antithesis of everything the paladin is.
a cleric who claims the evil deities, dont call himself an anticleric or evil cleric or alike, they just call themselves ClericsYes but clerics aren't necessarily good, they're just followers of a certain faith or ideal and gain powers from it.
Paladins are one thing: Lawful Good
Antipaladins are one thing: Chaotic EvilKeep in mind this is a world of tangible good and evil. They just aren't concepts in the minds of man.
on a side note: I think black guard was used in DnD as another variant. I think it was Lawful Evil.
No, CE and LG aren't opposites.
CG and CE are opposites.LE and LG are opposites.
Heck, NE and NG are opposites.
But I don't see how CE and LG are opposites.
I can't tell the position of Paizo but at the time the antipaladin was published CE was considered the exact opposite of LG.
The logic was simple: Chaotic was opposing Lawful and, Evil was opposing Good.
That's still the case. In fact, with the exception of the NE and NG section, the groups Starbuck mentioned are often allied when a force that opposes them on the same axis - for example, CE and CG against an overwhelming Lawful force they both disdain, or vice versa LE and LG vs something immensely Chaotic.
They are only opposed on the single moral axis. On the order/chaos one, all of Starbuck's examples are equivalent, and only the Neutral options truly opposed. A true opposite alignment is when something differs significantly on both axises, save in the case of a Neutral factor.
My reaction to seeing "CE is not the opposite of LE" was an actual hanging jaw followed by "Wat."
I say screw Paladin and Anti-Paladin being separate classes all together. Paladin evolved to mean a Knight Sanctified by the Church.
Make Paladin have no restrictions other than that of a Cleric/Inquisitor and have them gain a set of abilities based on their Alignments not whether they are LG or CE.
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The thing is that a Paladin or Antipaladin receive a lot of very powerful tools BECAUSE they are tied not just to their single alignment, but a code of conduct WITHIN that alignment.
The Paladin HAS to be a Paragon of Law and Good, doing Right and helping those in need.
The Antipaladin HAS to be a Paragon of Chaos and Evil, doing Wrong and sowing destruction everywhere he goes.
I think it kind of cheapens all the really great things you get in your toolbox for being a Paladin if you can be just any alignment. Now, I'm not saying that alternate-alignment "Paladins" can be acceptable, BUT they all need their own distinct and binding codes of conduct. This is beyond necessary.
Make the Sets of Abilities have Codes. Heck, Cavalier Orders have Edicts. Why can't a Paladin have something similar?
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That I wouldn't have a problem with.
The problem seems to be that most people who want alternate-alignment Paladins is that they (generally, and obviously not in all cases) want all the benefits of being a Paladin without the hardship of being locked into LG or CE alignments with steep codes of conduct. A Paladin is not just a Fighter with some divine flavor, he is a Paladin.
I actually have been working on Alternate Alignment Paladin Alternate Classes.
I also have a Sactified Fighter Archetype I have been playing around with. He gains lesser forms of Divine abilities.
chaotic evil is the posite side of lawful good btwThe Antipaladin is the antithesis of everything the paladin is.
a cleric who claims the evil deities, dont call himself an anticleric or evil cleric or alike, they just call themselves ClericsYes but clerics aren't necessarily good, they're just followers of a certain faith or ideal and gain powers from it.
Paladins are one thing: Lawful Good
Antipaladins are one thing: Chaotic EvilKeep in mind this is a world of tangible good and evil. They just aren't concepts in the minds of man.
on a side note: I think black guard was used in DnD as another variant. I think it was Lawful Evil.
No, CE and LG aren't opposites.
CG and CE are opposites.
LE and LG are opposites.
Heck, NE and NG are opposites.But I don't see how CE and LG are opposites.
CE is the direct and total opposite of LG. If you can't understand that ask yourself these questions.
1. What is the direct opposite of Good? Evil
2. What is the direct opposite of Lawful? Chaotic
3. What is the direct opposite of Lawful Good? __________?
Isn't there a Zealot Archetype for the Cleric or Inquisitor?
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Something pretty similar to a Holy Vindicator, without all the bloodletting, is pretty much what I believe this Zealot/Crusader class should be like. Maybe with roughly equal spellcasting to a Paladin, maybe spontaneous instead of prepared.
Empowered by a deity, but not quite held to the high standard Paladins are, so they don't receive quite as much power. But where the Paladin is a tough nut to crack that is exceedingly strong against Evil enemies, the Zealot/Crusader is a little less tough, but is more effective against all kinds of enemies.
I dunno, just a thought.
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That I wouldn't have a problem with.
The problem seems to be that most people who want alternate-alignment Paladins is that they (generally, and obviously not in all cases) want all the benefits of being a Paladin without the hardship of being locked into LG or CE alignments with steep codes of conduct. A Paladin is not just a Fighter with some divine flavor, he is a Paladin.
First of all -- I agree with your statement that most people looking for alternate paladins are looking for something other than paladin (and it's a reason I was so happy to see the Vindicator prestige class, allowing someone to "dip" into the divine, and, for that matter, the inquisitor...)
However.... that part, there (the bolded bit), is exactly my problem with the Anti-Paladin (and has been since 1986 or whenever I first got my hands on it).
I agree that CE is the total opposite of LG -- but the anti-paladin isn't the total opposite of the paladin -- the bi-polar (eg, opposite on two axes) opposite of a paladin would be undisciplined , and likely destructive without cause other than its own amusement -- and before people start saying I'm advocating for Chaotic Stupid as the opposite to Lawful Stupid (well, actually, I do believe that, it's just that I don't equate LG with LS, or CE with CS) -- I'd really recommend people go read up the description of CE societies in the bestiary (say, Ogre behaviour), or the little note on the "nature of goblinoid evil" in the bugbear description.... or even the contrasts in the descriptions of devils and demons.... or consider the fact that non-lawfuls aren't considered to be disciplined enough to be monks...
I would argue that the "true" opposite of the paladin (both axes) would be some sort of assassin.
However, the fluff (and flavour) of the anti-paladin is not that -- the anti-paladin is not the opposite -- rather, it's the dark reflection of the paladin (or, if you prefer, the paladin of evil), and is just as dedicated to his cause and drawing its strength from the same dedicated focus to its goals -- and at the end of the day.... that's not chaotic behaviour. The very notion of a chaotic creature being bound to a code of conduct seems to miss the whole point of what it means to be chaotic.
Hence, a lot of people (me included) feel that the "real" antipaladin (which is still a somewhat silly name, historical or no, and I thought so as a teenager in the 80s), should be LE - because then you get the dark reflection -- something with the same edge and focus (that comes from Lawful), but dedicated to evil.
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The Antipaladin's "code of conduct" is "rape, pillage, steal, destroy, kill, murder, salt the fields." You are required to pretty much play the epitome of THAT GUY to play an Antipaladin properly. It says so directly in the bit about "falling" if you perform a Good act.
I very much believe the class would be far more reasonable for play if it was LE, yeah. And personally, I have no opinion on the matter beyond the fact that "Dark Knight" is an AWFUL name for the class, because then it attracts every Batman-wannabe, who then end up playing full-on Chaotic Stupid.
We had Lawful Stupid now we have Chaotic Stupid. Yay!
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We had Lawful Stupid now we have Chaotic Stupid. Yay!
They can both be awful, but Chaotic Stupid is the kind of game-ending, friendship-ruining stuff that no one should ever have to deal with.
The concept of a player class that, AT BEST, is traveling alongside people so it may use them to further his goals of murder and general bad-guy-ness is just really opposed to the concept of a game like PF.