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So I am playing a paladin in society, and have found that I need a few things cleared up, mainly regarding prisoners. I know this could turn into a 200+ comment thread about ethos and philosophy, so lets keep it simple.
First off, I am playing him to where he really will not tolerate going to far out of the grey area. Stealing is not cool, killing is not cool, and other similar activities are not cool. I also do not want to play the idea that 'just do it while the paladin is not looking' either, as I think the idea of the Silver Crudade stands for an ideal along the lines of making the Society a force for good in Golarion. For what its worth, my paladin follows Erastil.
That said, I can rp through alot of the situations that come up, but when we take a prisoner for some reason, I need a standard procedure. I guess when in town, we should turn prisoners in, but what about out in the bush? tie them up and leave them? I cant drug them (poison is not an allowed paladin option); Do I simply administer justice based on thier crimes? I mean in game of thrones, Ned stark is along the lines of Lawful good and the first thing he does is execute someone for violating an oath....I rather find this approach appropriate.
What do you guys think? Is there some source that might help me make a call in a given situation?
Venture-Captain, Texas—Waco
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Paladins representing different deities take differing views of what their paladin code consists of, based on the tenets of their faith. One book from the Player Companion line that you might find useful is Faiths of Purity, which gives sample deity-specific paladin codes for five of the most common good deities: Erastil, Iomedae, Sarenrae, Shelyn, and Torag.
As one relevant example, Torag's paladins do not show mercy and do not allow surrender, except to extract information, while Shelyn's paladins will accept surrender if they think their opponent can be redeemed (and they assume all of their opponents can be redeemed).
While your paladin may not necessarily accept every piece of these sample codes, they may prove a very useful starting point.
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You are going to find a huge diversity of table variation on this subject. There is really no way, short of Mike making a campaign rule (which I am not in favor of), to define what is/not acceptable to paladins. The paladin, perhaps more than any other PC except maybe a cleric, is a reflection of the alignment arguments that have existing since law/chaos, good/evil was defined in RPG.
That being said, I think it is important to think of this from the perspective of the campaign. The Pathfinder Society, while not necessarily a "goodly" organization, does expect its agents to represent them in a positive manner and to cooperate with fellow agents. If you know that your character concept/personality/morality is going to create table strife and be at odds with other character's actions, then you should reconsider the PC. Of course, this applies to all players, not just the ones with PC's of a strong morale theme. It has been said, but bares repeating, that most conflicts at the gaming table are a result of a player's action moreso than the character and then using the old, tired, "that's just what my character would do" as an excuse or justification for bad behavior. If all players compromise and work together not to force another player to take action towards them, the community is better for it.
Now, I know this does not directly answer your question, but I don't think a nice, clean answer is possible.
My Paladin doesn't fight to end stealing... he fights to end the conditions under which stealing would be necessary. He's really more of a big picture type - and I find that many Paladins are played in such a fashion that they miss the forrest for the trees.
Just because a Paladin holds himself to a higher code doesn't mean he HAS to expect everyone else around him to live up to it as well.
Also, to further muddy your personal issue, Ned Stark executed a man who took an oath knowing the penalties for breaking it and then knowingly broke it anyway. The average goblin or ogre has taken few such oaths. It could be argued that executing creatures for failing to live up to a law or code that they themselves don't believe in and never agreed to is murder.
Paladins need to generally be a law unto themselves, to answer only to their divine calling and their personal code... fortunately that calling and those codes generally go hand in hand with most non-slave owning societies.
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Having said that , its best to ask before the game what other people are playing. You can do this, it's not against the rules. That way you can determine who the Paladin will associate with and who he/she wont. This may create issues with tiering, but from a roleplaying viewpoint (and pathfinder is still a roleplaying game/society) it might make sense. You are of course going to find some irregularities in this approach (keeping a log of characters you have played with may make sense),but in some respects some gods (esp the Lawful) ones have fairly inflexible codes. That inflexibility has to extend down the line.
I actually kinda miss the established 2nd ed D&D code that all Paladins used to get. I dont mind the diversification of religous orders of Paladins, but I still think there needs to be a base the house is built on.
Id prefer to see a Paladin stick to their beliefs (as long as the player is actually following the correct belief) then compromise to keep someone appeased.
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There is one important thing to remember about being a paladin. Just by being one does not automatically make you any kind of legitimate authority. It doesn't give you permission to be judge, jury and executioner. Those kind of actions, taking the law into your own hands, isn't a horrifically lawful things to do. Your better off giving them some supplies and sending them on their way without real weapons if you can't get them back to someone of legitimate authority. Maybe daggers.
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This game up in a game I ran just the other night. Going through an adventure, the party captured an enemy and interrogated him. At the conclusion, the Paladin turned the enemy over to the locals townspeople. As they leave, he turns back and sees the townspeople dispensing "frontier justice" with various objects.
Scenario Details Follow, Spoilers Ahead
The scenario was the Pallid Plague. The NPC was one of the cultists spreading the Palepox plague through flowers in Falcons Hollow. The party had taken quite some time to try and recover from the disease, so I felt that there would have been a fair few deaths in town by then. Naturally, the people are angry and with it being a back-country sort of area, I had the townspeople pretty much get to work in a lynch mob.
What was the paladin supposed to do?
Note: I also play Paladins (3 of them). I understand the challenges that go with it.
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Just by being one does not automatically make you any kind of legitimate authority. It doesn't give you permission to be judge, jury and executioner
That can be argued as well. A paladin could recognize that there is various forms of government on Golarion, but believe that they take a back-seat to the ultimate and divine authority of his/her god. Some gods might encourage/ordain a paladin to be a dispensary of justice. For instance, Sarenrae's paladin codes include I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my actions. If they will not turn towards the light, I will redeem them by the sword. That could be interpreted as being granted the ability to execute evil-do'ers if they fail to show repentance. Or Torag's paladins say, "Against my people's enemies I will show no mercy. I will not allow their surrender, except to extract information."
All I'm saying is that there is wide interpretation of a paladin's code and players often interpret what they want to see in it.
Just by being one does not automatically make you any kind of legitimate authority. It doesn't give you permission to be judge, jury and executionerThat can be argued as well. A paladin could recognize that there is various forms of government on Golarion, but believe that they take a back-seat to the ultimate and divine authority of his/her god. Some gods might encourage/ordain a paladin to be a dispensary of justice. For instance, Sarenrae's paladin codes include I will redeem the ignorant with my words and my actions. If they will not turn towards the light, I will redeem them by the sword. That could be interpreted as being granted the ability to execute evil-do'ers if they fail to show repentance. Or Torag's paladins say, "Against my people's enemies I will show no mercy. I will not allow their surrender, except to extract information."
All I'm saying is that there is wide interpretation of a paladin's code and players often interpret what they want to see in it.
Governments that allow slavery is the ideal example. If a government rules by a similar moral code to the Paladin then I would imagine he would uphold and obey their laws... if they do now, then I do not think he would consider himself beholden to them. He recognizes their authority, just not their authority over him, i.e. an immoral order is not a legitimate one.
The 'lawful' aspect of a Paladin is that he lives by a strict code, not that he obeys or even considers himself subject to whatever region he is passing through. When the two coincide, wonderful, when they do not, they are invalidated.
