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Like others of the racial archetypes some stonelord abilities are rather unclear in their wording.
As those questions have not been adressed officially yet I wanted to make a collection which can be FAQed to all the questions are in one thread.
1) How does the stone servant work?
- Is it right that it doesn't increase in any way between the size changes or does it get hitdice/hitpoints according to its master's level/hd? 13 hp seems a bit weak for a level 7 companion.
- Does it perhaps even use the complete animal companion rules?
- if it dies does the stonelord get a penalty like a standard paladin when his mount dies?
- In the bestiary it states that humanoid elementals are proficient with simple weapons. The earth elemental is roughly humanoid, so is it proficient?
- Can it wear armor that has no armor check penalty like a wizard could?
2) How does the earth channel work?
- Normally you can't use any variant of channeling ability unless you have the base ability. Because of that you normally get something like "channel positive energy that can only be used to use elemental channel (earth)". But the Stonelord only gets elemental channel (earth) without getting channel positive energy, which as I understand the rules, does nothing at all.
- If we assume it is meant to work as suggested above, can the stonelord use channeling foci with his elemental channel? Those items only state being activated by positive or negative energy.
- Can the stonelord choose variant channeling to take for example the earth variant channeling? As written both the stonelord and the variant channeling change channel energy and so would not be compatible. Is that true?
- Can the stonelord take channeling feats?
3) How does stonestrike work?
- Can an attack using stonestrike ignore hardness of objects with a hardness higher that 20 or is it limited like adamantine is (as they count as adamantine) to only reducing hardness of objects with a hardness of less than 20?
4) Everything about the class is about earth powers and slowly turning to earth. At level 20 finally he completely transforms to living stone. But still he does never get the earth subtype. Is that intentionally?
Did I forget anything that is unclear about this Archetype?
It has a very nice flavor and I already like my pc but it sucks to have so many abilities where the GM has to think up rules because the actual rules are not clear enough.
I can try to answer 3) and 4) but guess that's better than nothing.
3) Unless otherwise stated, if it is treated as adamantine for the purpose of bypassing hardness then it should reduce hardness if it is above 20 and bypass it if it is below 20, if I recall correctly.
4) It is most likely an oversight of some sort.
3) Unless otherwise stated, if it is treated as adamantine for the purpose of bypassing hardness then it should reduce hardness if it is above 20 and bypass it if it is below 20, if I recall correctly.
My problem with that is that the attacks count as adamantine but ignore a hardness depending on the class level times 2.
So a level 20 stonelord could ignore 40 points of hardness but it still counts as adamantine which can't ignore hardness of more than 20.
she treats her melee attacks until the beginning of her next turn (whether armed or unarmed) as magical and adamantine, including ignoring hardness up to twice her paladin level
It specifically ignores hardness up to twice the Paladin level, thus the specific ruling overwrites the general one.
This topic just reminds me of that mention of the ARG being filled with unclear rulings, but at least questions are being asked.
The one about stonestrike was the least unclear one I guess but as I was at it I added it.
Btw: I have similar problems with my scarred witch doctor so I'd say yes, the ARG IS unclear. But I don't want to derail this thread.
If you don't know the answert to those questions above, would it be too much to ask to hit the FAQ button?
I already hit the darn button, but don't hold your breath.
There have been so many FAQ'd things lately that the answers might take a while.
Also, there's an errata / possible mistakes thread concerning the ARG. You might wanna toss these issues there.
Like others of the racial archetypes some stonelord abilities are rather unclear in their wording.
As those questions have not been adressed officially yet I wanted to make a collection which can be FAQed to all the questions are in one thread.
1) How does the stone servant work?
- Is it right that it doesn't increase in any way between the size changes or does it get hitdice/hitpoints according to its master's level/hd? 13 hp seems a bit weak for a level 7 companion.
- Does it perhaps even use the complete animal companion rules?
- if it dies does the stonelord get a penalty like a standard paladin when his mount dies?
- In the bestiary it states that humanoid elementals are proficient with simple weapons. The earth elemental is roughly humanoid, so is it proficient?
- Can it wear armor that has no armor check penalty like a wizard could?2) How does the earth channel work?
- Normally you can't use any variant of channeling ability unless you have the base ability. Because of that you normally get something like "channel positive energy that can only be used to use elemental channel (earth)". But the Stonelord only gets elemental channel (earth) without getting channel positive energy, which as I understand the rules, does nothing at all.
- If we assume it is meant to work as suggested above, can the stonelord use channeling foci with his elemental channel? Those items only state being activated by positive or negative energy.
- Can the stonelord choose variant channeling to take for example the earth variant channeling? As written both the stonelord and the variant channeling change channel energy and so would not be compatible. Is that true?
- Can the stonelord take channeling feats?3) How does stonestrike work?
- Can an attack using stonestrike ignore hardness of objects with a hardness higher that 20 or is it limited like adamantine is (as they count as adamantine) to only reducing hardness of objects with a hardness of less than 20?4) Everything about the class is about earth...
1a) It does not increase in any way except for the size bonuses. Yea, that's a bit weak.
1b) Nope.1c) Uhm...I think so. I assume you take everything related to calling the mount, and use that, except for the augmentations to the mount.
1d) I haven't seen a picture of an earth elemental in PF for a while, but I guess that makes sense if they are generally humanoid. Which I think is different from vaguely humanoid.
1e) It being an elemental doesn't change the rules of proficiency. But so help me god if you put a kilt on an earth elemental.
2a) You can channel energy, but only to use elemental channel (earth). It could be written better, I agree. But the intent should be obvious.
2b) Sure.
2c) Too many disparate rule collisions for me to say something with certainty, but off-the-cuff and without looking up variant channeling again, I'd say no.
2d) See 2c, but I'd say yes here. Don't ask me why this answer differs from 2c.
3a) It can ignore hardness past 20, yes. At level 20, it'll be ignoring 40 points of hardness. Oddly, it looks like at level 1, it'd be ignoring just up to 2? If it was "2 times your level or 20, whichever is higher", I think it'd need more verbiage.
4a) I do not know if it's intentional.
I think what happened here is that the author was running up against the word count so they got all the rules to get a decent idea of how the archetype works, and is relying on GMs and players to help polish out the rest of the details. It happens sometimes :)
1c) If the Stonelord gets the drawbacks for a dead elemental then using this feature would be more of an drawback that a useful ability at lower levels.
2b) You they sure can I use channel foci. But what effect do I use? Do I just assume that the channel earth is positive energy?
1c) If the Stonelord gets the drawbacks for a dead elemental then using this feature would be more of an drawback that a useful ability at lower levels.
An earth elemental makes a great scout; it can poke its head through a wall and retreat underground when in trouble.
An earth elemental makes a great scout; it can poke its head through a wall and retreat underground when in trouble.1c) If the Stonelord gets the drawbacks for a dead elemental then using this feature would be more of an drawback that a useful ability at lower levels.
Sure. But with 13hp it's dead before it can retreat if it looses initiative.
Without the penalty for letting it die it is about as usful as most wizard familiars.With the penalty it's better to leave it at home (its home, not yours)
But as this seems to be intentional I'll just live with a class ability that isn't really usable till level 8. Or perhaps later. Didn't look at the medium elemental very closely yet.
| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
As it keeps coming up I necro this thread.
When I opened this thread everyone seemed sure that the stone servant is just a celestial earth elemental without additional advancement.
In newer threads on the other hand posters assume that they get full AC advancement.
Is there any possibility to finally get some clarification on this?
Here are some threads in which the topic of stone servant advancement is discussed:
Thread 1
Thread2
Thread3
Thread4
Thread5
I sorted the threads by date. Most likely there are more than these 5. Those are only the ones I found with a quick search.
As for the HD and other stats for the elemental, I see 3 reasonable answers:
1) You have a 2 HD elemental. At level 14, you have a 2 HD elemental of Huge size.
2) You use the Animal Companion rules, with various size increases.
3) You get a "small earth elemental" (2 HD); at level 8, it becomes a "medium earth elemental" (4 HD), and so on.
1 can't be correct, because "Greater" and "Elder" are not size categories. 2 can't be correct, because animal companions need an animal companion stat block to pair with the progression table. That leaves option 3.
As for what happens if it dies? That's explained by the Divine Bond class feature and the line "a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount"
As for the HD and other stats for the elemental, I see 3 reasonable answers:
1) You have a 2 HD elemental. At level 14, you have a 2 HD elemental of Huge size.
2) You use the Animal Companion rules, with various size increases.
3) You get a "small earth elemental" (2 HD); at level 8, it becomes a "medium earth elemental" (4 HD), and so on.
1 can't be correct, because "Greater" and "Elder" are not size categories. 2 can't be correct, because animal companions need an animal companion stat block to pair with the progression table. That leaves option 3.
As for what happens if it dies? That's explained by the Divine Bond class feature and the line "a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount"
I guess the answer to the HD question is your option 3, as well. But as it comes up ofen it would be nice to have that confirmed.
As the 2HD earth elemental is of very little use (much weaker than the ability it replaces and even less useful as for example a familiar).The phrase "as a paladin calls her mount" doesn't say at all what happens when the stone servant dies. It only says how you call it. And really if the stonelord really is meant to get such a big penalty for letting his squishy useless 13hp elemental die then the ability is worse than not having it at all. You could just as well give him a permanent -1 to everything.
Hit dice progression seems clear to me from the text.
At 5th level open the bestiary to Earth Elemental, find the small version, and apply the celestial template. Repeat with subsequent higher paladin levels until at 20th you do the above process with an Elder Earth Elemental. That seems cut and dry to me.
As for what happens if it is destroyed/dies, it is less clear as you mention. In the absence of clear direction, I would probably opt to just allow the paladin to call his Stone Servant back as a full round action if he still has additional calls for that day. Otherwise, he can just call the elemental back the following day.
The reason for my thinking here is two fold. One, it is a replacement of the Divine Bond so that does not mean it follows the Divine Bond rules 100%. Two, Stone Servant just says "call to (his) side, as a paladin calls (his) mount" and so that is the portion of Divine Bond that I would include.
Besides, it is really an underpowered companion any way you slice it, especially compared to a normal paladin mount. At 5th level it is a CR 1 companion and at 20th level it is only CR 11 companion. Give me a break! That thing should be clobbered on a regular basis at that rate. So allowing him to call the elemental back one to four times a day even if destroyed, does not seem overpowered to me in the least. Plus it fulfills the full RAW, so there should not be an issue unless it changes due to FAQ or errata.
Hit dice progression seems clear to me from the text.
For me it seems clear, too. But as I keep seeing posts from people who assume it gets full AC progression I hoped one of them would join in and explain how he/she comes to that conclusion in the slim hope that they might be right.
Or, even better, one of the devs would come in and tell us why they made the stone servant so weak and squishy.
As for what happens if it dies? That's explained by the Divine Bond class feature and the line "a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount"
It does not say "as the Divine Bond class feature." It only specifies one aspect: the summoning of the mount.
Following the rules as written, as best as we can:
At 5th level, a stonelord may call a Small earth elemental to her side, as a paladin calls her mount.
It is called as a paladin calls her mount:
Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount to her side. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin's level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin. A paladin can use this ability once per day at 5th level, and one additional time per day for every 4 levels thereafter, for a total of four times per day at 17th level.
That is the only text relevant to the calling of the mount, and nothing else in the stonelord archetype overrides this information.
This earth elemental is Lawful Good in alignment and possesses the celestial template, and it increases in size as the stonelord gains levels, becoming Medium at 8th level, Large at 11th level, Huge at 14th level, Greater at 17th level, and Elder at 20th level.
This tells you what the creature is and how it progresses. No mention is made of druid animal companions.
This ability replaces divine bond.
And this tells you that no other part of divine bond applies to Stonelord paladins.
I know this is a long dead thread but hendelbolaf is right both by raw and rai. I actually wrote the guy who wrote the archetype abs he said that was his intention, so at higher levels you can Summon the earth elemental a few times a day. Unless some other dev comes and changes it it actually makes the stone servant alright, and not basically be a worthless resource.